McLaren 12c not selling?
Discussion
APOLO1 said:
The running costs of a 12C over 8k miles and 10 months are the same as a 997tt. Tyres, CCB brakes, Fuel, ect
[
Bit of a weird running period time. A Bugatti Veyron wouldnt be much more over 10 months or 8k miles lol. [
Edited by APOLO1 on Monday 31st December 08:32
Normally people compare running costs for 3 years. IMHO I think you know that this statement is manipulated in favour of mclaren ownership.
Porsche are one, if not the lowest running cost cars in the supercar bracket. Their service is only 500 and I believe are variable servicing intervals. The macca I was told was 1200 to 1800 and it was every 12 months.
Chrism355 said:
But just like any car, some options just make the car nicer but add little value, some individualize the car to much, look at the graphite car with red / black interior, the first owner thought it looked the dogs others would shy away, just like Ferrari with re sale red with magnolia hide, put a red hide in the same car, as some have done and see how fast it sells, the car for 205K has every carbon extra you could add, the Silver blue is quite basic no carbon. I dont see £210 as list dont forget Iris was free on early cars .
Another thing that makes these cars look bargains is the base price of the car has been increased since October
You see I thought that silver blue one had a nice spec and just right. I'm not a fan of all this carbon inside stuff tbh. Another thing that makes these cars look bargains is the base price of the car has been increased since October
I think the graphite grey one off putting feature is its red interior. It is not as stark in real life but as you have said, is off putting to some ( I was one lol)
ianbr said:
The orange model advertised at £205k, has £45k of extras- how much of that are you ever going to get back at resale time?
I realise no one is ever going to buy a new 458 or 12c with no options but it seems mostly to depend on buyers taste and depth of pockets and unlikely to ever be recovered
In line with all the others advertised, I would say that car should be advertised a 160k to 165k. I would stil place a bet with PaddyPower that it will still not sell for that and would probably sell for 155k circa. I realise no one is ever going to buy a new 458 or 12c with no options but it seems mostly to depend on buyers taste and depth of pockets and unlikely to ever be recovered
These cars need to be spec'd but with the right stuff. For example have you seen a 458 with the base spec wheels? IMHO these are horrible. Ferrari do this to force you somewhat to have the 4k wheel upgrade. I believe the mclaren standard wheels are not particularly nice either.
Cheib said:
The relatively small numbers made will definitely count in 12C's favour. Long term the biggest issue might be how good the Spider is supposed to be!
I watched a YouTube discovery channel thing about the mclaren and they have had a new plant built at Woking for production of 80 cars per week. This needs to be achieved to pay for the state of the art factory and r&d. Boshly said:
What's the value of that car if you were trading it in? £134k I would guess based on your numbers? That's the real value, what someone would pay you for it. So your depreciation would be £86k!
I've no issue either way, and agree/appreciate both these cars (458 & MP12) will depreciate, and it appears at roughly the same rate.
Where I do think there is a difference is that Ferraris have a dampening effect by virtue of their branding (as road cars). Due to this and their numbers they won't plunge as quick as maybe a McLaren on a bad review or a bit of concern over quality, but they won't rise as high due to higher numbers. I haven't really expressed myself too eloquently but to summarise 458 prices a bit more stable, MP12 a tad more volatile; both in the same ballpark?
Today I would agree. However both them London cars I think the dealers will lose. They have had for 6 months and a bet they had for 155k. I've no issue either way, and agree/appreciate both these cars (458 & MP12) will depreciate, and it appears at roughly the same rate.
Where I do think there is a difference is that Ferraris have a dampening effect by virtue of their branding (as road cars). Due to this and their numbers they won't plunge as quick as maybe a McLaren on a bad review or a bit of concern over quality, but they won't rise as high due to higher numbers. I haven't really expressed myself too eloquently but to summarise 458 prices a bit more stable, MP12 a tad more volatile; both in the same ballpark?
The graypauls one is SOR so only the owner will lose
mpbcs said:
I just spoke to mclaren London and the grey car does not have a sports exhaust but can be retro fit (part of a deal maybe?), and the HS front end is an eye-watering £29k! I don't mind the red interior, as it is a super car after all, and may take a look later in the week. The more I read about the 12c, and having driven one, the more interested I become. The styling is not to everyone's taste but is much less shouty than the 458 and I prefer a little more subtlety (sports exhaust is allowed though ;-) )
Do it and get the sports exhaust and that is a must. I don't think they would throw in the HS front but have a cheeky go lol. In my opinion, If they would stick a sports on I would probably deal on the dark grey at 149k. I think sports exhaust is a factory fit option of 4k (not sure).
So when you going for a test drive and deal then?
I know what you say about the mac as they are not as in your face as a 458, but that graphite grey one is and does look the business. Like I said the red interior is a lot less in your face in the flesh.
Edited by baileyconstruct on Monday 31st December 10:43
APOLO1 said:
Bit of a weird running period time. A Bugatti Veyron wouldnt be much more over 10 months or 8k miles lol.
Normally people compare running costs for 3 years. IMHO I think you know that this statement is manipulated in favour of mclaren ownership.
Porsche are one, if not the lowest running cost cars in the supercar bracket. Their service is only 500 and I believe are variable servicing intervals. The macca I was told was 1200 to 1800 and it was every 12 months.
Strange comment.
A set of tyres and brakes for Veyron would cost over 25k. I have had my 12c for 8 months so I can only comment on the cost within that time. Having had to replace the tyres and CCB pads once, I can say that the costs are within £20.00 to that of a 997tt.
Interesting that the % losses are tracking almost identical car for car, irrespective of new or used.
I know a set on a veyron is 20k plus but this is why to appreciate running cost it is best to average over a 3 year period. Normally people compare running costs for 3 years. IMHO I think you know that this statement is manipulated in favour of mclaren ownership.
Porsche are one, if not the lowest running cost cars in the supercar bracket. Their service is only 500 and I believe are variable servicing intervals. The macca I was told was 1200 to 1800 and it was every 12 months.
Strange comment.
A set of tyres and brakes for Veyron would cost over 25k. I have had my 12c for 8 months so I can only comment on the cost within that time. Having had to replace the tyres and CCB pads once, I can say that the costs are within £20.00 to that of a 997tt.
Interesting that the % losses are tracking almost identical car for car, irrespective of new or used.
Either my maths is bad or I'm not seeing your calculation workings but I believe the following is correct:
Mp4 Grey London one
220k new
145k resale
Depreciation 34% (75k depreciation)
458
220k new
174k resale
Depreciation 20% (46k)
Figures are based on 2011 61plate cars approx 1 year old with 4-5k miles.
Therefore am I missing something???
red_duke said:
OMG ... That's a depreciation of £15 per mile.
And the over optioned orange car on offer at £205 has depreciated at £48 per mile!
It's a lot for one year. Don't get me wrong but they will still lose money but the amount will slow on the residual line. And the over optioned orange car on offer at £205 has depreciated at £48 per mile!
Your best to keep the mp4 for a few more years and use it. This will then reduce the costs per mile.
If your in the market now for one, I think they are great value and picked up for 145k to 150k you will probably lose 40k in 3 years which I do not think is too bad.
Again, once the car gets below 150k it opens up a totally new market of potential owners as the 150k barrier is sometimes a little physiological.
Maff said:
Not that bad??!! Mine was an early 12C, with free IRIS (that never actually worked), which I paid £210k for. I sold for £150k 1 year later (end of July). That's £5000 per month depreciation alone! (it actually cost more than that, as I had just over £1k to get the car ready for sale (tyres etc) and then £3k SOR fee from the dealer).
I'm amazed people think that's 'not that bad'! Even my 25,000 mile V12 CL65 AMG didn't loose that much!
My point exactly. It takes a lot of earning. I'm amazed people think that's 'not that bad'! Even my 25,000 mile V12 CL65 AMG didn't loose that much!
Normally it's the big engined Mercs who are the culprits, however the jag xj220 takes some beating for 1st year depreciation lol
APOLO1 said:
I am aware that the early cars were some what……..troublesome……these should have now been sorted.
Unfortunately we are in difficult economic times. Its not just the 12c and 458 that are affected. I know of a main agent a few weeks back that had just brought back 2 x FFs under 1500 miles on each at loss of 100k on each car……
Really??? I have to say this one seems strange as 1 year old ones are still going for 200 plus and the cars were very unlikely spec'd above 250k. Unfortunately we are in difficult economic times. Its not just the 12c and 458 that are affected. I know of a main agent a few weeks back that had just brought back 2 x FFs under 1500 miles on each at loss of 100k on each car……
I would say Maff is the best to comment as he has had most cars we are talking about.
Edited by baileyconstruct on Monday 31st December 18:25
TP321 said:
the 458 is not exactly holding its price......
http://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
too many of them...once the bubble bursts..
It's plus vat. One thing I can teach you is read the small print lolhttp://classifieds.pistonheads.com/classifieds/use...
too many of them...once the bubble bursts..
Edited by baileyconstruct on Wednesday 2nd January 18:11
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