Unusual F40 owner!
Discussion
I don't know why, but I would never in a million years think this chap:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1206353/...
Owned this car:
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20929/lot/344/?pag...
Still, apparently Tony Robinson owned/owns a TVR which is equally surprising.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1206353/...
Owned this car:
http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20929/lot/344/?pag...
Still, apparently Tony Robinson owned/owns a TVR which is equally surprising.
Fipster said:
50 something, slightly flash, successful antiques dealer/musician who has worked on lots of films and television? Perfect candidate I'd say...
For a 911 or a 458, perhaps.But an F40 is a totally different bag.
There's nothing to indicate that he has any interest in cars at all and an F40 is definitely an enthusiast's choice.
pork911 said:
will_ said:
Fipster said:
50 something, slightly flash, successful antiques dealer/musician who has worked on lots of films and television? Perfect candidate I'd say...
For a 911 or a 458, perhaps.But an F40 is a totally different bag.
There's nothing to indicate that he has any interest in cars at all and an F40 is definitely an enthusiast's choice.
a ferrari cap or polo shirt might preclude it
but beyond that I'm strugglingI suppose that he's just not on the radar as a serious car enthusiast, unlike (say), Jay Kay, Chris Evans, Rowan Atkinson etc. That's why it's slightly surprising.
traxx said:
CIE560 said:
Also surprising is that this thing owns this car
But really, I've always thought a 599 GTO and Tamara Ecclestone was an odd (but not terrible) combination.
Guess she also in theory owns a highly disputed AventadorBut really, I've always thought a 599 GTO and Tamara Ecclestone was an odd (but not terrible) combination.
Anyway I was told by someone that she is actually quite a good driver, but if you are brought up all your life around racecars its kind of what you would expect
JamieBeeston said:
dudlow said:
JamieBeeston said:
aah but it does actually have one!
I hope you find some that suits your requirements and that you get to enjoy the fun!
F50's are just going nuclear.. Enzos already have, 288 GTOs went boom last year.. 250 GTO well
Which one does that leave left
They don't tend to do too well at auction but it will be interesting to see - it will just depend on the day.
AndrewD said:
With respect that is just a generalisation.
So I talked with a gentleman who probably brokers the sales of more 288s, F40s, F50s, Enzos etc than anybody else and has done for years. His observations are interesting and contradict yours. That's great, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
For what it is worth to you, our conversation concluded that the 80s bubble was driven by a mad scramble for cars as alternative investments, with many buyers who had no knowledge or passion piling in, much of it with borrowed money. Current activity is very different, buyers are generally knowledgeable, they want the cars for what they are, most purchases are cash, and once bought are not being rotated out of collections every 2-3 years and supply is restricted.
To further contradict you with actual experience, I bought my 288 just over a year ago and have already turned down 3 offers at near 100% profit. It is not for sale. I know several others like me. We aren't stupid, clearly it is simply not about the money.
I think there is an element in the current market of cars as an alternative investment. There are historically low interest rates, stock markets are still risky (and arguably a bubble too), financial instruments are increasingly complex and potentially risky (and have poor PR) - whereas with a car, if all goes to pot at least you still have an asset. Your 288 is still a great pleasure to own even if you lose £100k. So I talked with a gentleman who probably brokers the sales of more 288s, F40s, F50s, Enzos etc than anybody else and has done for years. His observations are interesting and contradict yours. That's great, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
For what it is worth to you, our conversation concluded that the 80s bubble was driven by a mad scramble for cars as alternative investments, with many buyers who had no knowledge or passion piling in, much of it with borrowed money. Current activity is very different, buyers are generally knowledgeable, they want the cars for what they are, most purchases are cash, and once bought are not being rotated out of collections every 2-3 years and supply is restricted.
To further contradict you with actual experience, I bought my 288 just over a year ago and have already turned down 3 offers at near 100% profit. It is not for sale. I know several others like me. We aren't stupid, clearly it is simply not about the money.
Cars are also gains tax free in the UK, again making them an attractive investment. It's just my opinion but when assets become "investments" rather being enjoyed for their intrinsic value that is when a bubble is likely to form although I accept the anecdotal evidence that it's a more enthusiast - rather than speculator based - boom at the moment compared to the 1980s.
Continued record breaking auction prices again hint that there is heat in the market but I do wonder whether that is sustainable. On the flip-side "blue chip" art is still comparatively expensive compared to cars so perhaps if there is a bubble it's at least bigger in other asset classes.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't plenty of borrowing against cars - certainly in the modern "premium" marketplace - and even against classic cars too (like many other investments).
AndrewD said:
will_ said:
AndrewD said:
With respect that is just a generalisation.
So I talked with a gentleman who probably brokers the sales of more 288s, F40s, F50s, Enzos etc than anybody else and has done for years. His observations are interesting and contradict yours. That's great, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
For what it is worth to you, our conversation concluded that the 80s bubble was driven by a mad scramble for cars as alternative investments, with many buyers who had no knowledge or passion piling in, much of it with borrowed money. Current activity is very different, buyers are generally knowledgeable, they want the cars for what they are, most purchases are cash, and once bought are not being rotated out of collections every 2-3 years and supply is restricted.
To further contradict you with actual experience, I bought my 288 just over a year ago and have already turned down 3 offers at near 100% profit. It is not for sale. I know several others like me. We aren't stupid, clearly it is simply not about the money.
I think there is an element in the current market of cars as an alternative investment. There are historically low interest rates, stock markets are still risky (and arguably a bubble too), financial instruments are increasingly complex and potentially risky (and have poor PR) - whereas with a car, if all goes to pot at least you still have an asset. Your 288 is still a great pleasure to own even if you lose £100k. So I talked with a gentleman who probably brokers the sales of more 288s, F40s, F50s, Enzos etc than anybody else and has done for years. His observations are interesting and contradict yours. That's great, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
For what it is worth to you, our conversation concluded that the 80s bubble was driven by a mad scramble for cars as alternative investments, with many buyers who had no knowledge or passion piling in, much of it with borrowed money. Current activity is very different, buyers are generally knowledgeable, they want the cars for what they are, most purchases are cash, and once bought are not being rotated out of collections every 2-3 years and supply is restricted.
To further contradict you with actual experience, I bought my 288 just over a year ago and have already turned down 3 offers at near 100% profit. It is not for sale. I know several others like me. We aren't stupid, clearly it is simply not about the money.
Cars are also gains tax free in the UK, again making them an attractive investment. It's just my opinion but when assets become "investments" rather being enjoyed for their intrinsic value that is when a bubble is likely to form although I accept the anecdotal evidence that it's a more enthusiast - rather than speculator based - boom at the moment compared to the 1980s.
Continued record breaking auction prices again hint that there is heat in the market but I do wonder whether that is sustainable. On the flip-side "blue chip" art is still comparatively expensive compared to cars so perhaps if there is a bubble it's at least bigger in other asset classes.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't plenty of borrowing against cars - certainly in the modern "premium" marketplace - and even against classic cars too (like many other investments).
Fundamentally I agree that the current boom in prices is more enthusiast than speculator lead but when you hear of an investment fund specifically for classic cars I do wonder whether that indicates a return to the 1980s "bubble" market.
Gassing Station | Supercar General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff