WHAT ARE YOU DOING TOMORROW (WEDS) NIGHT?? (Gatwick Area)
Discussion
WHAT ARE YOU DOING TOMORROW (WEDNESDAY) NIGHT?? COME ALONG TO THE The Four Counties Car Club AT THE HEDGEHOG INN, COPTHORNE.
Some of you will have participated in 4 Counties events (Rumble etc.) when this meeting was connected with the Lotus Seven Club, but now its independent, its even better due to a wider range of attendees from SELOC and a number of other car clubs. So far we’ve had Atoms, Elises (including a really neat 300bhp Honda Supercharged Elise which belongs to a local owner) as well as a bunch of other exotica.
If you hate the rather clique nature of some other car clubs, this ones new and actively seeking membership (which is essentially free too!), so we encourage you to attend and help make this a successful meeting for a wider range of owners of all kinds of track and fast road orientated cars.
We hope to see you tomorrow – that’s Wednesday – 25th July
Full details are at: www.the-webbs.com/4counties/4counties.htm
Some of you will have participated in 4 Counties events (Rumble etc.) when this meeting was connected with the Lotus Seven Club, but now its independent, its even better due to a wider range of attendees from SELOC and a number of other car clubs. So far we’ve had Atoms, Elises (including a really neat 300bhp Honda Supercharged Elise which belongs to a local owner) as well as a bunch of other exotica.
If you hate the rather clique nature of some other car clubs, this ones new and actively seeking membership (which is essentially free too!), so we encourage you to attend and help make this a successful meeting for a wider range of owners of all kinds of track and fast road orientated cars.
We hope to see you tomorrow – that’s Wednesday – 25th July
Full details are at: www.the-webbs.com/4counties/4counties.htm
Knight, If its a classic Japanese racing machine (i.e Price R380, or a Toyota 7 etc) you are very welcome.
If its something more mass produced (Subaru,Skyline, Datsun Bling etc) you may find yourself more amongst the pubs regulars than the 4CCC!
The original text omitted the word lightweight, (sorry my fault) hence generally exluding cars less than 1000kgs unless its got at least Macca F1 level power/weight ratios.
If its something more mass produced (Subaru,Skyline, Datsun Bling etc) you may find yourself more amongst the pubs regulars than the 4CCC!
The original text omitted the word lightweight, (sorry my fault) hence generally exluding cars less than 1000kgs unless its got at least Macca F1 level power/weight ratios.
I was trying to define some rules for membership.
I was thinking about 2 doors, 3 seats or less (include anyone with a Macca!), less than 1000 kilos, at least 200bhp/tonne
So for your Cerbera:
2 doors - yes
3 seats or less - er no.
Less than 1000kgs - not unless its a Speed 12 :-)
200bhp/tonne - yes - you have 363ish
That said, you'd be welcome, so....
As he rules are really there to prevent oiks from Crawley and such like, who exhibit a lack of respect for other members, other customers of the pub and the local residents, from turning up.
So I need to redefine the rules.
How about no more than 2 doors, not originating from Japan, not mass produced, less than 1100 kilos, at least 240bhp/tonne.
That should do it.
Shall post this to the website soon.
I was thinking about 2 doors, 3 seats or less (include anyone with a Macca!), less than 1000 kilos, at least 200bhp/tonne
So for your Cerbera:
2 doors - yes
3 seats or less - er no.
Less than 1000kgs - not unless its a Speed 12 :-)
200bhp/tonne - yes - you have 363ish
That said, you'd be welcome, so....
As he rules are really there to prevent oiks from Crawley and such like, who exhibit a lack of respect for other members, other customers of the pub and the local residents, from turning up.
So I need to redefine the rules.
How about no more than 2 doors, not originating from Japan, not mass produced, less than 1100 kilos, at least 240bhp/tonne.
That should do it.
Shall post this to the website soon.
Ms Plum,
Actually the Hedgehog does not attract those types. Seemingly crossing the M23 seems to attract a different kind of clientelle.
BTW the clique club in question is directed at some area meets of a one make club I attend from time to time, although I am no longer a member of said club. So you are spot on Knight.
The point here is that we do not want the cr park filling up with the kind of oiks in Imprezas or toff's in F430s who ruin track days. What the 4CCC caters for is enthusiasts with a common interest to share experiences and knowledge.
Anyway, at least the thread is getting a few views....
Actually the Hedgehog does not attract those types. Seemingly crossing the M23 seems to attract a different kind of clientelle.
BTW the clique club in question is directed at some area meets of a one make club I attend from time to time, although I am no longer a member of said club. So you are spot on Knight.
The point here is that we do not want the cr park filling up with the kind of oiks in Imprezas or toff's in F430s who ruin track days. What the 4CCC caters for is enthusiasts with a common interest to share experiences and knowledge.
Anyway, at least the thread is getting a few views....
Where would we be without fantastic self contradictory posts such as that above?
The ethos of this club is lightweight sportscars. This isn't a general performace car club. There are plenty of lightweight sportscars, but it is hard to keep knobs away whose inspiration and driving skills are limited to fitting a big stereo and a superchip to their 'Need for Speed Underground 2' inspired chick magnet.
Sure there will be a few victims in the selection process, but the rules are predominently there so we do organise runs out on Sunday mornings for cars in a largley similar performance envelope, especially on track. Remember on tight technical circuits where the lightweights excel plenty of exotic machinery becomes a mobile chicane.
For example, do remember that a factory spec Caterham CSR260 is 2+ seconds a lap faster around the Top Gear Track than the Swedish thing with the long name. A radical is even faster than that, as would probably be a supercharged Atom if they've now sorted the handling out, and quite possibly an Elise with the same motor.
I don't believe your Noble, or Elise are in fact any form of thinly disguised Caterham, and I would suggest that only about 1 in 300 Caterham owners have a Caterham as their only cars.
Neither the Z4M or an X5 have any true sporting pretentions, these are the vehicles of those who use the BMW lane on the M4 on their way home form shopping on the Kings Road.
So I don't understand your point.
The ethos of this club is lightweight sportscars. This isn't a general performace car club. There are plenty of lightweight sportscars, but it is hard to keep knobs away whose inspiration and driving skills are limited to fitting a big stereo and a superchip to their 'Need for Speed Underground 2' inspired chick magnet.
Sure there will be a few victims in the selection process, but the rules are predominently there so we do organise runs out on Sunday mornings for cars in a largley similar performance envelope, especially on track. Remember on tight technical circuits where the lightweights excel plenty of exotic machinery becomes a mobile chicane.
For example, do remember that a factory spec Caterham CSR260 is 2+ seconds a lap faster around the Top Gear Track than the Swedish thing with the long name. A radical is even faster than that, as would probably be a supercharged Atom if they've now sorted the handling out, and quite possibly an Elise with the same motor.
I don't believe your Noble, or Elise are in fact any form of thinly disguised Caterham, and I would suggest that only about 1 in 300 Caterham owners have a Caterham as their only cars.
Neither the Z4M or an X5 have any true sporting pretentions, these are the vehicles of those who use the BMW lane on the M4 on their way home form shopping on the Kings Road.
So I don't understand your point.
Edited by Fat Arnie on Wednesday 1st August 12:21
Edited by Fat Arnie on Wednesday 1st August 12:23
Justin,
You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder here, otherwise you would understand this club is for people who own cars such as Nobles, Elises, Caterhams etc. Its primary mission is not to become an elitest one make club.
I'm not sure where I made any comment on the basis of perfomance of an M12 vs. an R300, neither do I recall specifically saying a Noble would not be welcome. Having discovered (much to my surprise) the weight of an M12 is 1200kgs, I have edited the website accordingly. It should be noted however that the power to weight ration of a humble R300 is higher than an M12.
The main point however is the fact that you ALSO own an X5. This is of complete irrelevence, however if you ONLY owned an X5, or only ever intended turning up to a club meet or event in your X5, which was the implied basis of your original query, then the club is probably not for you as you would have little in common with the other members, only being able to speak about a car you own.
If you chose to attend in your X5 when the weather is less than ideal (I have been known to attend in a tintop when my car (which has zero weather protection) has been off the road or its been raining/snowing) then that's fine. Everyone else is in the same boat. On that note, how do you imagine people with race cars (i.e. not road legal)are going to attend? - we don't actually expect them to trailer them to the meet.
Besides that, if the drive fron Sanderstead to Copthorne is a big issue in anything other than an X5 or Z4 then am forced to draw the conslusion you are a car collector rather than a driver.
So please dont invent quotes and question my intelligence. All you are doing is stiffleing the purpose of this event, whihc is to get like minded people together.
And given you seem to have so much free time in which to comment on this thread, I trust we will be seeeing you at the next meeting on August 29th?
You seem to have some kind of chip on your shoulder here, otherwise you would understand this club is for people who own cars such as Nobles, Elises, Caterhams etc. Its primary mission is not to become an elitest one make club.
I'm not sure where I made any comment on the basis of perfomance of an M12 vs. an R300, neither do I recall specifically saying a Noble would not be welcome. Having discovered (much to my surprise) the weight of an M12 is 1200kgs, I have edited the website accordingly. It should be noted however that the power to weight ration of a humble R300 is higher than an M12.
The main point however is the fact that you ALSO own an X5. This is of complete irrelevence, however if you ONLY owned an X5, or only ever intended turning up to a club meet or event in your X5, which was the implied basis of your original query, then the club is probably not for you as you would have little in common with the other members, only being able to speak about a car you own.
If you chose to attend in your X5 when the weather is less than ideal (I have been known to attend in a tintop when my car (which has zero weather protection) has been off the road or its been raining/snowing) then that's fine. Everyone else is in the same boat. On that note, how do you imagine people with race cars (i.e. not road legal)are going to attend? - we don't actually expect them to trailer them to the meet.
Besides that, if the drive fron Sanderstead to Copthorne is a big issue in anything other than an X5 or Z4 then am forced to draw the conslusion you are a car collector rather than a driver.
So please dont invent quotes and question my intelligence. All you are doing is stiffleing the purpose of this event, whihc is to get like minded people together.
And given you seem to have so much free time in which to comment on this thread, I trust we will be seeeing you at the next meeting on August 29th?
I wanted to close this thresd, but feel this debate should continue.
A Z4M or an X5 is not a proper sports car. You can't do anything to set the car up without throwing major components of the standard car away. There are also thousands of both Z4Ms and X5s on the road.
You'll notice that proper sportcars like those designed by Lee Noble as well as Chapman and Gordon Murray are produced in much smaller quantities.
That's to some degree what makes them special.
Now if you understood Jeremy Clarkson, you would understand that he is a big chap, and he can't fit in a Caterham, Westfield or Radical, which is why they do not appear on his Fastest Laps board. CArs only get up there if he can have a go. If you've been to the Top Gear filming, you'd realise this. All 3 of those cars have been around the circuit, a Radical SR3 blitzing everything ever to go around there less the 2004 Renault RS24 driven by Kovalainen when dressed as the Stig. Jeremy, you see, doesn't like cars he can't fit into, especially if his wife does like them. Francie, his wife, of course own's a Caterham. The CSR lap is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6hjM1VrElE and remember, the CSR is not a particularly quick car, the R500 it repalced was a good bit quicker. And there are many other road legal Caterhams which are quicker than that. I do belive that lap time is 7.6 seconds faster than a Stig piloted M12 however. (also in the dry)
Moving on, I don't understand your point:
"I was pointing out that clearly my Noble wouldn't be therefore eligable because even a R300 would have serious issues staying with it on the road, never mind a track, and therefore what about your poor old 1.6 Caterham owners?"
What I do know, is that if you drive your Noble at anything aproaching its true envelope of capability on the road, assuming it is at least as fast as an R300, then you probably should not have a driving licence. And do remember that an R300 is only a 1.8, the extra 200cc's throwing only about 5 bhp into the mix.
Yesterday I saw a clip on TV of a guy moaning about designer clothes (I don't remember what program it was on, might have been a News Knight repeat.
His concept of making designer clothing obsolete and people walking around in Tee-shirts with a recent bank statement printed on the front instead, would be matched well in my opinion by the fact that some BMW owners could walk around with dyno plots of their X5 printed on their chest.
I can't quite belive that it is a BMW owner making an alegation of "elitist views"
And remember, at two tonnes, you appear to have only 177.5bhp/tonne. Thats hot hatch territory.
So Justin, if you don't wish to come and play with us because our kind of toys don't excite you, then that's fine. But do you have to keep going on about it? Nobody is interested.
A Z4M or an X5 is not a proper sports car. You can't do anything to set the car up without throwing major components of the standard car away. There are also thousands of both Z4Ms and X5s on the road.
You'll notice that proper sportcars like those designed by Lee Noble as well as Chapman and Gordon Murray are produced in much smaller quantities.
That's to some degree what makes them special.
Now if you understood Jeremy Clarkson, you would understand that he is a big chap, and he can't fit in a Caterham, Westfield or Radical, which is why they do not appear on his Fastest Laps board. CArs only get up there if he can have a go. If you've been to the Top Gear filming, you'd realise this. All 3 of those cars have been around the circuit, a Radical SR3 blitzing everything ever to go around there less the 2004 Renault RS24 driven by Kovalainen when dressed as the Stig. Jeremy, you see, doesn't like cars he can't fit into, especially if his wife does like them. Francie, his wife, of course own's a Caterham. The CSR lap is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6hjM1VrElE and remember, the CSR is not a particularly quick car, the R500 it repalced was a good bit quicker. And there are many other road legal Caterhams which are quicker than that. I do belive that lap time is 7.6 seconds faster than a Stig piloted M12 however. (also in the dry)
Moving on, I don't understand your point:
"I was pointing out that clearly my Noble wouldn't be therefore eligable because even a R300 would have serious issues staying with it on the road, never mind a track, and therefore what about your poor old 1.6 Caterham owners?"
What I do know, is that if you drive your Noble at anything aproaching its true envelope of capability on the road, assuming it is at least as fast as an R300, then you probably should not have a driving licence. And do remember that an R300 is only a 1.8, the extra 200cc's throwing only about 5 bhp into the mix.
Yesterday I saw a clip on TV of a guy moaning about designer clothes (I don't remember what program it was on, might have been a News Knight repeat.
His concept of making designer clothing obsolete and people walking around in Tee-shirts with a recent bank statement printed on the front instead, would be matched well in my opinion by the fact that some BMW owners could walk around with dyno plots of their X5 printed on their chest.
I can't quite belive that it is a BMW owner making an alegation of "elitist views"
And remember, at two tonnes, you appear to have only 177.5bhp/tonne. Thats hot hatch territory.
So Justin, if you don't wish to come and play with us because our kind of toys don't excite you, then that's fine. But do you have to keep going on about it? Nobody is interested.
Oh an dthe figure at the bottom of the page here http://www.radicalextremesportscars.com/media/trac...
indicate that the M12 is not really that much quicker than a Caterham Acadamy on Michelin Pileups with just 120bhp
Engine: 1600 K-Series
Max Power (bhp/rpm): 120 @ 6100
Max Torque (lbs ft/rpm): @ 5350
Weight: 550kg
0-60mph: 5.9 Seconds
Power-to-weight: 227 bhp-per-tonne
Top Speed: 112mph
indicate that the M12 is not really that much quicker than a Caterham Acadamy on Michelin Pileups with just 120bhp
Engine: 1600 K-Series
Max Power (bhp/rpm): 120 @ 6100
Max Torque (lbs ft/rpm): @ 5350
Weight: 550kg
0-60mph: 5.9 Seconds
Power-to-weight: 227 bhp-per-tonne
Top Speed: 112mph
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