Summer coolant. What is it?
Discussion
heebeegeetee said:
Guys, blame me, I blame myself, but you're all missing the point.
My points are:
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
Are you for real?My points are:
- I'm currently finding it impossible to buy antifreeze (having been buying it off and on for 40 years).
- I'm now finding that I can only buy 'Antifreeze & Summer Coolant' or words to that effect.
- I say that the 'summer coolant' is water, and that the whole thing is a con.
- I don't want to buy water from a car parts supplier, I can supply my own for next to nowt.
- We are finding that 'antifreeze and summer coolant' is weaker than just 'antifreeze', reinforcing my suspicion that 'summer coolant' is water.
- Antifreeze and summer coolant works out more expensive than just plain antifreeze.
- I think this is a con, and the public are being cheated. From what I'm seeing the public don't realise and don't care. Which is fine, but it shows what the motor industry can get away with.
- This shows how easy it is to cheat the public.
- It's a con, and I don't like being conned.
I possibly buy a couple of hundred litres a year, this only became an issue about 2 years ago, I was down to just one supplier who could supply antifreeze, but yesterday I found that they too are now supping 'antifreeze and summer coolant', at the same price.
I'd you want antifreeze without water buy concentrate rather then premixed stuff
227bhp said:
It's sold now in the same concentration it has always been, what makes you think any different?
Why do you say that., how do you know it's in the same concentration?Why do I think it's any different?
A 1:1 mix used to protect to -40c, now its -36c. A container of antifreeze used to just say 'Antifreeze", now it seems none of them do. Here's a page from Halfords, some say 'Ready Mixed', and some say 'Antifreeze and Coolant'. https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-flui... I can't find one that says 'Antifreeze' only, so I say you're wrong.
The antifreeze that the 5 or 6 suppliers I use is NOT sold in the same concentration, so that's also why I think different.
Then there's other sources:
>>A product labelled coolant will be a pre-mixed, ready to use solution of Anti-freeze and water that you can pour straight into the cooling system. A product labelled antifreeze will be a concentrated solution, designed to be diluted with water before you add it to your cooling system.<<
https://www.micksgarage.com/blog/everything-you-ev...
>>One thing to keep in mind with nearly every modern jug of coolant you’ll come across: They’re all pre-diluted. Years ago coolant was always sold as pure coolant, and you'd have to dilute the fluid yourself with water. The pre-diluted stuff is more convenient of course, but you end up paying a lot more for less coolant.<<
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a91/1...
I'm not the slightest bit bothered about the 40 degs dropping to 36 degs or whatever, what I am bothered about is that the motor trade has found a way to sell us water.
I don't understand what the problem is here... In that link to Halfords they sell both pre-mixed and concentrate, the latter dilutes the same way it used to (approx a 1:1 ratio recommended on the bottle)
So what if there's a tiny fraction of water contained in it, it still works... Have you considered that they need to add a small amount of water to stabilise the stuff?
So what if there's a tiny fraction of water contained in it, it still works... Have you considered that they need to add a small amount of water to stabilise the stuff?
Chris32345 said:
Are you for real?
I'd you want antifreeze without water buy concentrate rather then premixed stuff
Ok, so yesterday I had yet another phone conversation, similar to the ones on this subject that I've had over the past two years or so.I'd you want antifreeze without water buy concentrate rather then premixed stuff
Me: "Do you sell antifreeze only"? Supplier: "Yes". (A firm and unequivocal reply).
Me: "Really? Genuine antifreeze, or antifreeze concentrate"? Supplier: "Yes, absolutely".
Me: Right, send me 20 litres".
And in comes that barrel with the label that I've posted a pic of. 'Concentrated Antifreeze and Summer Coolant'.
I use 7 suppliers in all: Mercedes-Benz, Andrew Page, Car Spares, MPD, A-Z Autos, GSF abd Euro Car Parts.
I don't buy AF from Merc, obviously, so that leaves me with 6 other suppliers. One by one they have all started selling diluted AF only, except Car Spares. Up until yesterday I was able to buy pure AF from them, but now they've changed too.
So, if you're buying pure AF, can I ask who you buy it from, please?
paintman said:
If having any water in your car's cooling systems is such an issue why aren't you using one of the 'waterless coolants'?
I've done my best to explain, but you're clearly not getting it.There is no issue with having water in the cooling system, but I don't want to buy that water from a car parts supplier.
Plus, I want them to be honest with me, and they're not. I think the motor trade and industry just finds it impossible to be honest, though it seems the public don't give a kipper.
OnTheEdge said:
heebeegeetee said:
- I say that the 'summer coolant' is water, and that the whole thing is a con.
Anti freeze is anti freeze which (in recent years) is now also called summer coolant to tell people that they don't need to drain it out in the summer.
Anti freeze/summer coolant or whatever you want to call it is available either concentrated or ready mixed.
Ready mixed is mixed with distilled/de-ionised water.
If you don't have suitable water to mix it with you want the ready mixed version, simple.
Next!
heebeegeetee said:
227bhp said:
It's sold now in the same concentration it has always been, what makes you think any different?
Why do you say that., how do you know it's in the same concentration?Why do I think it's any different?
A 1:1 mix used to protect to -40c, now its -36c. A container of antifreeze used to just say 'Antifreeze", now it seems none of them do. Here's a page from Halfords, some say 'Ready Mixed', and some say 'Antifreeze and Coolant'. https://www.halfords.com/motoring/engine-oils-flui... I can't find one that says 'Antifreeze' only, so I say you're wrong.
The antifreeze that the 5 or 6 suppliers I use is NOT sold in the same concentration, so that's also why I think different.
Then there's other sources:
>>A product labelled coolant will be a pre-mixed, ready to use solution of Anti-freeze and water that you can pour straight into the cooling system. A product labelled antifreeze will be a concentrated solution, designed to be diluted with water before you add it to your cooling system.<<
https://www.micksgarage.com/blog/everything-you-ev...
>>One thing to keep in mind with nearly every modern jug of coolant you’ll come across: They’re all pre-diluted. Years ago coolant was always sold as pure coolant, and you'd have to dilute the fluid yourself with water. The pre-diluted stuff is more convenient of course, but you end up paying a lot more for less coolant.<<
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a91/1...
I'm not the slightest bit bothered about the 40 degs dropping to 36 degs or whatever, what I am bothered about is that the motor trade has found a way to sell us water.
As you can see the mix is just the same as it is now. It could well be that some say -36'c and some simply round it up to -40'c as only a nutter would try to argue over 4'c. It will also have other additives in it, it's now bitter to stop people/animals from drinking it for instance.
The other thing worthy of note is that it needs water in it to make it work, pure antifreeeze will freeze solid at -13'c. The more water is added the lower the temperature needed to make it freeze up to a point, that point is 65% AF (-52'c) after that adding more water lifts the freeze point.
E-bmw said:
Quite.
Anti freeze is anti freeze which (in recent years) is now also called summer coolant to tell people that they don't need to drain it out in the summer.
Anti freeze/summer coolant or whatever you want to call it is available either concentrated or ready mixed.
Ready mixed is mixed with distilled/de-ionised water.
If you don't have suitable water to mix it with you want the ready mixed version, simple.
Next!
In 40 years of dicking about with motor cars, I've never heard of anyone draining their coolant for the summer. I've never heard of anyone changing coolant for the summer and reducing the amount of antifreeze.Anti freeze is anti freeze which (in recent years) is now also called summer coolant to tell people that they don't need to drain it out in the summer.
Anti freeze/summer coolant or whatever you want to call it is available either concentrated or ready mixed.
Ready mixed is mixed with distilled/de-ionised water.
If you don't have suitable water to mix it with you want the ready mixed version, simple.
Next!
It's hard enough getting the public to change their oil. The idea they'd change their coolant for the summer is ludicrous. Maybe that happened in the age of the Austin Seven or something, but this issue first cropped up for me about 2 years ago.
At the moment, *all* of the concentrated antifreeze that my six suppliers want to sell us is diluted. If you have a link to some genuine concentrate I'd be delighted and grateful to see it.
heebeegeetee said:
In 40 years of dicking about with motor cars, I've never heard of anyone draining their coolant for the summer. I've never heard of anyone changing coolant for the summer and reducing the amount of antifreeze.
It's hard enough getting the public to change their oil. The idea they'd change their coolant for the summer is ludicrous. Maybe that happened in the age of the Austin Seven or something, but this issue first cropped up for me about 2 years ago.
At the moment, *all* of the concentrated antifreeze that my six suppliers want to sell us is diluted. If you have a link to some genuine concentrate I'd be delighted and grateful to see it.
It's the same now that it's been for many years, nothing has changed.It's hard enough getting the public to change their oil. The idea they'd change their coolant for the summer is ludicrous. Maybe that happened in the age of the Austin Seven or something, but this issue first cropped up for me about 2 years ago.
At the moment, *all* of the concentrated antifreeze that my six suppliers want to sell us is diluted. If you have a link to some genuine concentrate I'd be delighted and grateful to see it.
What a ridiculous rant.
Surely they're just making it easier for people to know what they're getting.
Some people call it coolant, some call it anti-freeze.
They are the same product so putting it on the label isn't an issue.
Anti-freeze is coolant that doesn't freeze in the winter.
Summer coolant is anti-freeze that will keep your engine temps cool in the summer.
Surely they're just making it easier for people to know what they're getting.
Some people call it coolant, some call it anti-freeze.
They are the same product so putting it on the label isn't an issue.
Anti-freeze is coolant that doesn't freeze in the winter.
Summer coolant is anti-freeze that will keep your engine temps cool in the summer.
227bhp said:
It's the same now that it's been for many years, nothing has changed.
I think you're just trolling now, because you're 100% wrong, and have nothing whatsoever to contribute. Coilspring said:
Im struggling with this.
If you want it easy, buy premixed.
If you want it concentrated buy the stuff that needs diluting.
Both are available, both work. The cost difference, unless you are buying lots of it, is negligible.
I think I buy about 120-150 litres a year. I agree that the cost difference is probably not a lot, but that's not the issue.If you want it easy, buy premixed.
If you want it concentrated buy the stuff that needs diluting.
Both are available, both work. The cost difference, unless you are buying lots of it, is negligible.
When the first batch of "summer coolant" arrived at my premises about 2 years ago, I got straight on the phone, and in true Arthur Daly style said "Am I a mug punter? This s
t is for the general public, how dare you send it to me!" but I now find I can't buy anything else, not from my six suppliers anyway, and we're all being treated as mug punters. As possibly the motor trade has always tried to do. heebeegeetee said:
227bhp said:
It's the same now that it's been for many years, nothing has changed.
I think you're just trolling now, because you're 100% wrong, and have nothing whatsoever to contribute. heebeegeetee said:
227bhp said:
It's the same now that it's been for many years, nothing has changed.
I think you're just trolling now, because you're 100% wrong, and have nothing whatsoever to contribute. Coilspring said:
Im struggling with this.
If you want it easy, buy premixed.
If you want it concentrated buy the stuff that needs diluting.
Both are available, both work. The cost difference, unless you are buying lots of it, is negligible.
I think I buy about 120-150 litres a year. I agree that the cost difference is probably not a lot, but that's not the issue.If you want it easy, buy premixed.
If you want it concentrated buy the stuff that needs diluting.
Both are available, both work. The cost difference, unless you are buying lots of it, is negligible.
When the first batch of "summer coolant" arrived at my premises about 2 years ago, I got straight on the phone, and in true Arthur Daly style said "Am I a mug punter? This s
t is for the general public, how dare you send it to me!" but I now find I can't buy anything else, not from my six suppliers anyway, and we're all being treated as mug punters. As possibly the motor trade has always tried to do. Break it down for us, what is it you actually want?
What concentrate of anti-freeze? What freezing point do you think this concentrate should have?
I expect what you're thinking of, doesn't actually exist and what you 'think' you've always been using isn't actually what you think.
227bhp said:
If you've read my post above you certainly haven't responded to it, does it not fit your agenda?
Sorry, no, I hadn’t seen your post above. I still think your missing the point and I’m not at all sure why you’ve got involved, but I’ll have another go.
I’m fairly certain that ive not said that “coolant” didn’t used to exist, we all know that snake oil has always existed. What has changed for me, as of yesterday, is that I cannot buy plain antifreeze anymore, it seems.
I know that it takes water to make it work, and that is closer to my point, in that I can supply my own water, I don’t need to buy water from a parts supplier.
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