Recommended Oil
Discussion
My Griff 500 has just come back from Thames Valley Racetech (very good bunch btw) after a 36K service.
It now has a semi-synthetic 10w/40 in it. They swear by it rather than Mobil 1. However that are a couple of different specifications, A3 is the one to use. As far as make, he said that any quality make would be fine as long as it was to the 10w/40 A3 spec.
Apparently TVR are dropping Mobil 1 (sponsorship deal finished or something) and going to some to some other brand (one I never heard of).
Always thought Mobil1 was little better than p1ss, never liked putting it in mine.
It now has a semi-synthetic 10w/40 in it. They swear by it rather than Mobil 1. However that are a couple of different specifications, A3 is the one to use. As far as make, he said that any quality make would be fine as long as it was to the 10w/40 A3 spec.
Apparently TVR are dropping Mobil 1 (sponsorship deal finished or something) and going to some to some other brand (one I never heard of).
Always thought Mobil1 was little better than p1ss, never liked putting it in mine.
After reading everyones advice, I used Millers 10/40 fully synthetic in my chim, and believe it or not, the difference was imediate, much less drop in pressure when the engine gets up to temperature. Less pressure initialy ~40 on the guage, I'm not worried about that
My problem is this. When I went to LRMD to get an OEM oil filter the parts dept was shut, and as I wanted to go to VW on Sunday, and the car was in the air without a filter I had to put something on. I ended up with an ALCO filter. Looks smells and even tastes the same as the original...
Should I now change it for an OEM one or am I OK
Ta
Ben
My problem is this. When I went to LRMD to get an OEM oil filter the parts dept was shut, and as I wanted to go to VW on Sunday, and the car was in the air without a filter I had to put something on. I ended up with an ALCO filter. Looks smells and even tastes the same as the original...
Should I now change it for an OEM one or am I OK
Ta
Ben
You left the car drained of oil with no filter and you got oil pressure back? Do you know how lucky or how close you were to getting zero oil pressure and potentially knackering the engine?
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
quote:
Maybe he knows how to prime a filter before putting it on a Rover engine Steve.
It's possible. It even seems likely, bearing in mind that he got oil pressure back
It's not the filter, it's the pump that needs priming! This is like playing Russian Roulette with your car. The only time the filter should come off during an oil change is when you have the replacement in your hand along with a gallon of the oil of your choice.
Steve
quote:
You left the car drained of oil with no filter and you got oil pressure back? Do you know how lucky or how close you were to getting zero oil pressure and potentially knackering the engine?
Steve
www.tvrbooks.co.uk
Excuse my ignorance on this one, but what is exactly the proper step by step procedure to changing the oil filter on the Rover V8 to avoid zero oil pressure on start up
Do it quickly. Get everything to hand. Drain, replace filter and refill. Serpentine engines are not quite so fussy but can still have problems. The pump can drain dry if left and will not restore pressure until it is removed, packed with vaseline and put back. Realtively easy on a pre-serp engine but a dismantle the whole front on a serp engine.
Don't ask how long you have as it depends. Just do it quickly and don't interrupt the process and everything should be fine.
Don't ask how long you have as it depends. Just do it quickly and don't interrupt the process and everything should be fine.
The car was in the air without a filter, NOT without oil.
I took the filter off to replace it BEFORE dropping and re-filling the oil (it was then I realised I'd been supplied the wrong filter) The filter was filled with oil before fitting it (the autofactors were happy about taking the first one back
)
Should I have charged the pump, if so, how ? (I've done loads 10 oil changes on Range Rovers and never had problems, so this is new to me)
After subsequently changing the oil (quickly),I turned the engine over for a few seconds (coil lead disconnected) , pressure light went off after about 2 seconds
So am I OK or just lucky, and back to my question...
Should I change the filter again ?
I took the filter off to replace it BEFORE dropping and re-filling the oil (it was then I realised I'd been supplied the wrong filter) The filter was filled with oil before fitting it (the autofactors were happy about taking the first one back
) Should I have charged the pump, if so, how ? (I've done loads 10 oil changes on Range Rovers and never had problems, so this is new to me)
After subsequently changing the oil (quickly),I turned the engine over for a few seconds (coil lead disconnected) , pressure light went off after about 2 seconds
So am I OK or just lucky, and back to my question...
Should I change the filter again ?
The problem is well known on TVRs and is based around the problem that the pump will drain dry and eventually will not pump up. Similar problems have been experienced with oil surge on circuits where the pump picks up air instead of oil. Removing the filter allows air to get into the system and this can cause the pump to drain. This is not instant and there is time to simply change the filter and refill. I don't bother filling the filter as the empty filter helps the pump to prime because there is less resistence compared to the oil filled filter.
If everything is done quickly then there is no issue. Interrupting it mid stream is where the problem lies. I saw the inside of a Chimaera engine up at the factory where the owner had started to change everything, got interrupted by a 20 minute phone call, then got no oil pressure but ignored it because it was obviously faulty as he had just filled it with oil and then started to drive down to a track day. Engine seized and he attempted a warrenty claim which got turned down when the factory found green oil (was sir changing the oil by some chance?) and an empty oil pump. The factory were considering making oil changes a dealer only option because of the high occurance of this problem. They asked me to include warnings about this in the various bibles to spread the word about this.
As I said earlier, the serp engines are less susceptible to this problem and a bit more tolerant. But they can suffer from this as well. It is one of those situations where being aware of the risk and taking steps to minimise it is all that is needed. In this case I think you were lucky or tempting fate. Others who have done the same have not been.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 25th September 11:18
If everything is done quickly then there is no issue. Interrupting it mid stream is where the problem lies. I saw the inside of a Chimaera engine up at the factory where the owner had started to change everything, got interrupted by a 20 minute phone call, then got no oil pressure but ignored it because it was obviously faulty as he had just filled it with oil and then started to drive down to a track day. Engine seized and he attempted a warrenty claim which got turned down when the factory found green oil (was sir changing the oil by some chance?) and an empty oil pump. The factory were considering making oil changes a dealer only option because of the high occurance of this problem. They asked me to include warnings about this in the various bibles to spread the word about this.
As I said earlier, the serp engines are less susceptible to this problem and a bit more tolerant. But they can suffer from this as well. It is one of those situations where being aware of the risk and taking steps to minimise it is all that is needed. In this case I think you were lucky or tempting fate. Others who have done the same have not been.
Steve
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 25th September 11:18
Cheers Steve,
I thought the filter was the high pressure side of the pump, but you live and learn eh
I alway change oil and filter as quick as possible (I now know why) and, as I said, I turned the engine over to make sure there was oil pressure before firing it up (that sort of caution comes from working on Triumphs)
So the last part of the jigsaw....
If I didn't get any pressure, how would I prime the pump ?
And should I change the oil filter again for an OEM one or will the ALCO one be OK ?
BTW, you're a star, and don't listen to all the people moaning about how pessimistic you sound, the complete picture is the best picture.
I thought the filter was the high pressure side of the pump, but you live and learn eh
I alway change oil and filter as quick as possible (I now know why) and, as I said, I turned the engine over to make sure there was oil pressure before firing it up (that sort of caution comes from working on Triumphs)
So the last part of the jigsaw....
If I didn't get any pressure, how would I prime the pump ?
And should I change the oil filter again for an OEM one or will the ALCO one be OK ?
BTW, you're a star, and don't listen to all the people moaning about how pessimistic you sound, the complete picture is the best picture.
You did the right things. I turn over on the starter to check pressure first as well.
With the pre-serp engines, the oil pump is easy to access. A few bolts undo the cover, pack with vaseline and bob's you relative. You can also drive the pump by removing the distributor and using a special shaft and a drill.
On the serp engines, the oil pump is behind the front timing cover so all the gubbins at the front of the engine has to come off to get access. It is a major operation involving replacing gaskets etc etc etc. Been there did that. Many TVR mechanics have become bald at this particular problem as occassionally you get pumps that wont pump up or have seals that leak and you are now talking of an hour or so to strip and refit.
The filter is on the high pressure side and oil is pumped into it. If there is air in the pump it will often get compressed inside the pump because the oil in the filter acts like a blockage because of itshigher resistence. One trick to get this pumped is to remove the filter and turn the engine over until oil comes out and then replace the filter.
As for being pessimistic I take the view that owners need to know the complete picture and that way they can make their own minds up. It also explains why it is important to look after the simple things before they get really expensive or to understand that the bill for doing this is so big because of this.
Steve
PS I would keep the filter. It will get changed at some point.
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 25th September 11:52
With the pre-serp engines, the oil pump is easy to access. A few bolts undo the cover, pack with vaseline and bob's you relative. You can also drive the pump by removing the distributor and using a special shaft and a drill.
On the serp engines, the oil pump is behind the front timing cover so all the gubbins at the front of the engine has to come off to get access. It is a major operation involving replacing gaskets etc etc etc. Been there did that. Many TVR mechanics have become bald at this particular problem as occassionally you get pumps that wont pump up or have seals that leak and you are now talking of an hour or so to strip and refit.
The filter is on the high pressure side and oil is pumped into it. If there is air in the pump it will often get compressed inside the pump because the oil in the filter acts like a blockage because of itshigher resistence. One trick to get this pumped is to remove the filter and turn the engine over until oil comes out and then replace the filter.
As for being pessimistic I take the view that owners need to know the complete picture and that way they can make their own minds up. It also explains why it is important to look after the simple things before they get really expensive or to understand that the bill for doing this is so big because of this.
Steve
PS I would keep the filter. It will get changed at some point.
>> Edited by shpub on Wednesday 25th September 11:52
quote:
The filter is on the high pressure side and oil is pumped into it.
So leaving it for half an hour with the filter off is much less risky than leaving it with no oil, I guess ?
Neither ideal, obviously, but at least I know what to check for with the filter now too
Thanks for all your advice, even if I don't read it I feel I need to buy your book out of courtesy, unless you'd prefer a pint of course
quote:
quote:
The filter is on the high pressure side and oil is pumped into it.
So leaving it for half an hour with the filter off is much less risky than leaving it with no oil, I guess ?
Neither ideal, obviously, but at least I know what to check for with the filter now too
Thanks for all your advice, even if I don't read it I feel I need to buy your book out of courtesy, unless you'd prefer a pint of course
Yes basically. I suspect that with no oil you would have been in real trouble.
As for buying the book... You don't have to but I won't stop you as I have two TVR's to support!
Steve
Let me suggest another way to prime the pump that could work for some.
I have a remote oil filter with a "tee" installed in the high pressure feed line because I use the stem of the tee as a fitting for my oil temperature sender. When I do engine work (just did a valve job on my 3.5), I refill some of the oil using a 1 pint suction/pressure syringe to force oil into the oil line through a hose barb screwed into the tee. As I add oil, I get a noticable increase in pressure on the syringe after the filter fills and all air has been driven out of the bearings and oil passages. I then force feed another pint or so. I believe that this forces oil upstream, into the oil pump, as well as downstream, prelubing the bearings. Then I turn the engine over with the starter and no plugs. This has always given me about 1 bar of oil pressure within 5 seconds or so.
And it seems much simpler (and far less messy) than stuffing vaseline. Where does all that vaseline go, anyhow?
I have a remote oil filter with a "tee" installed in the high pressure feed line because I use the stem of the tee as a fitting for my oil temperature sender. When I do engine work (just did a valve job on my 3.5), I refill some of the oil using a 1 pint suction/pressure syringe to force oil into the oil line through a hose barb screwed into the tee. As I add oil, I get a noticable increase in pressure on the syringe after the filter fills and all air has been driven out of the bearings and oil passages. I then force feed another pint or so. I believe that this forces oil upstream, into the oil pump, as well as downstream, prelubing the bearings. Then I turn the engine over with the starter and no plugs. This has always given me about 1 bar of oil pressure within 5 seconds or so.
And it seems much simpler (and far less messy) than stuffing vaseline. Where does all that vaseline go, anyhow?
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