What Engine for 500BHP
Discussion
Liquid Knight said:
Three things just came to mind...
1/ Damn it! if I had been able to make it I would have beaten you by default.
2/ I think the CV joint exploded because there's no grease.
3/ Peter Jackson's doing a remake of the Dambusters movie.
That'll be seventeen hours long, in three parts, set in Hawaii instead of Coningsby with B17G flying fortresses instead of Lancasters and Barnes Wallace will be from Wisconsin instead of Ripley Derbyshire then.
1/ think I had a lucky escape there - as it was I was beaten by a granny in a people carrier!1/ Damn it! if I had been able to make it I would have beaten you by default.
2/ I think the CV joint exploded because there's no grease.
3/ Peter Jackson's doing a remake of the Dambusters movie.
That'll be seventeen hours long, in three parts, set in Hawaii instead of Coningsby with B17G flying fortresses instead of Lancasters and Barnes Wallace will be from Wisconsin instead of Ripley Derbyshire then.
2/ The joints are much less messy to assemble if you keep them grease free;)
3/ Think I will skip that movie, and hopefully can avoid more shrapnel in the future!
My Nan was ATC communications officer at Coningsby during the raids and an extra in the original film. I've sent Peter Jackson an email to see if it's for real and if he'd like to see my Nan's box of memorabilia. The original film was made based on eye witness accounts, filmed at the actual air base and test sites and to this day is one of the most historically accurate war films made.
Hope the people carrier wasn't French.
Hope the people carrier wasn't French.
Max_Torque said:
Sounds like it let go at quite low speed, which is good, because the now "unconnected" end of the halfshaft can whirl about under the car and beat the feck out of things..........!
Yes it was at low speed well less than 40mph as it went in 1st, but luckily the eng of the shaft stayed within the cv joint outer, so no damage other than the smashed CV joint
turbonutter said:
Max_Torque said:
Sounds like it let go at quite low speed, which is good, because the now "unconnected" end of the halfshaft can whirl about under the car and beat the feck out of things..........!
Yes it was at low speed well less than 40mph as it went in 1st, but luckily the eng of the shaft stayed within the cv joint outer, so no damage other than the smashed CV jointandygtt said:
I did this in my old ultima at the strip and my noble at silverstone... Hopefully you can fit a larger cv joint in your hubs?
Hi Andy, Out of interest which joints did you break Near side or off side - were the also the 100mm OD 86mm PCD joints?
I can with a bit of grinding to the hub fit a hub with a bigger flange, but then I will need new shafts as well, as the inner spline will be different.....
Talked to GKN today and they think it broke due to over plunging, not because of overload... the one that broke is on the side where the distance between the two flanges grew 5mm when i changed the gearbox, so that could have been part of the reason for the failure. Current plan is to fit a new joint, with a 5mm spacer and see if it happens again - if it does then we need to look a a different solution.
It was the inner offside that failed on my noble, I sent mine to gkn (he still has my complete unit, must ask for it back lol) and he said they were to small for 500ftlb so not to run more than that... Pretty sure I can't go larger and I'm now running 50ftlb more at nearly 600ftlb now :-(
My entire drive train is a weak point on my car!
On the ultima it was because I was provided the wrong ones by the factory (ie I paid for gkn and was supplied stock ford), the ironic thing is they new as well! The sent me the right ones and they never failed again :-)
My entire drive train is a weak point on my car!
On the ultima it was because I was provided the wrong ones by the factory (ie I paid for gkn and was supplied stock ford), the ironic thing is they new as well! The sent me the right ones and they never failed again :-)
andygtt said:
It was the inner offside that failed on my noble, I sent mine to gkn (he still has my complete unit, must ask for it back lol) and he said they were to small for 500ftlb so not to run more than that... Pretty sure I can't go larger and I'm now running 50ftlb more at nearly 600ftlb now :-(
My entire drive train is a weak point on my car!
On the ultima it was because I was provided the wrong ones by the factory (ie I paid for gkn and was supplied stock ford), the ironic thing is they new as well! The sent me the right ones and they never failed again :-)
Ok so between us we have broken joints in 3 different locations, so there is no pattern to which joint gets most hammer! I have the standard GKN joints & GKN said that they should handle my 500lbft?? I am not using the motorsport joints, but I am lead to believe that they are stronger, so that would be the next possibility for me. Its the outer joint that broke on mine, but If needed I can change the stub axle in the hub to one that takes a 108mm CV the same as at the inboard end, but that would mean new shafts as well, so i would prefere to avoid that option..My entire drive train is a weak point on my car!
On the ultima it was because I was provided the wrong ones by the factory (ie I paid for gkn and was supplied stock ford), the ironic thing is they new as well! The sent me the right ones and they never failed again :-)
Just had the car back to AET to check the mapping & tweak the part throttle fuel to give me a slightly better fuel consumption on the motorway. We also tweaked the map slightly to reduce the torque, so I now have about 475lbft & 515BHP at the hubs- less torque & more power and all at only 1.1bar and with an ambient temperature of 26C.....
Sounds like you have more options than I do... In fact I use stock ford cv's inside and out as upgrades are not available. I sent the shaft and cv's in to gkn and they could offer no solutions.... I have upgraded the shaft itself to a lighter stronger unit from the ford but I don't have room to go for bigger cv's
I don't want to reduce power, mine is 475bhp on low boost 0.6bar and my high is 1.35 bar now but I was running over 1.6bar before so I really want to be turning it up rather than down.
How do you find your single turbo? I love mine and would never go back to twin turbos on my V6 again :-)
I don't want to reduce power, mine is 475bhp on low boost 0.6bar and my high is 1.35 bar now but I was running over 1.6bar before so I really want to be turning it up rather than down.
How do you find your single turbo? I love mine and would never go back to twin turbos on my V6 again :-)
andygtt said:
Sounds like you have more options than I do... In fact I use stock ford cv's inside and out as upgrades are not available. I sent the shaft and cv's in to gkn and they could offer no solutions.... I have upgraded the shaft itself to a lighter stronger unit from the ford but I don't have room to go for bigger cv's
I don't want to reduce power, mine is 475bhp on low boost 0.6bar and my high is 1.35 bar now but I was running over 1.6bar before so I really want to be turning it up rather than down.
How do you find your single turbo? I love mine and would never go back to twin turbos on my V6 again :-)
I have the 100mm od (ford size) standard GKN CV's, but I have been told that the GKN motor sport ones are stronger i.e. the MS3K023 joint, and then the MS3K038 heavy duty joint is supposedly even stronger Hopefully if I have further problems one of those joints will solve the problem. These are connected to a Ford stub axle, i think scorpio ones. As far as I know the stub axles can be changed for ones with a 108 diameter flange (ultima can supply them) but hopefully I can get away with the 100mm diameter ones...... as the larger ones and new shafts is an expensive option, but at least it is an option!I don't want to reduce power, mine is 475bhp on low boost 0.6bar and my high is 1.35 bar now but I was running over 1.6bar before so I really want to be turning it up rather than down.
How do you find your single turbo? I love mine and would never go back to twin turbos on my V6 again :-)
Todays figure is a healthy 575?BHP at the flywheel, so that is enough for now & as you know a transverse set up like mine is pushed to the limit at our torque and power figures!
The single turbo was a good choice - I had twin turbos on my last stratos and this is if anything better. Ok the whole package is better, but the newer ball bearing turbos seem to have the edge over the older plain bearing ones - they spool much better!
turbonutter said:
Ok so between us we have broken joints in 3 different locations, so there is no pattern to which joint gets most hammer! I have the standard GKN joints & GKN said that they should handle my 500lbft??
If you engine has 475lb/ft, what is that when multiplied through your gearbox?stevesingo said:
But what about in first gear?
If you have a 3.285:1 first gear your torque at the shafts will be 475*3.285=1560.375 bl/ft?
Ok I see what you are getting at!If you have a 3.285:1 first gear your torque at the shafts will be 475*3.285=1560.375 bl/ft?
Car was run in 4th gear 0.918:1 and firs gear is 3.23:1 so a ratio difference of about 3.5 times!
What about the diff ratio 4.28:1 assume that should factor in as well?
Ok I am awake now and got the brain in gear
Logically the dyno will sort out the gearing for whatever gear is used for mapping, to give the engine torque - well thats what i would have thought anyway, so it is like you say just to do the multiplication by the 1st gear ratio - everything else being the same.
So my logic of launching in 1st instead of second, as being gentler is in one respect wrong, as the potential torque is greater assuming the tyres dont spin.....
Logically the dyno will sort out the gearing for whatever gear is used for mapping, to give the engine torque - well thats what i would have thought anyway, so it is like you say just to do the multiplication by the 1st gear ratio - everything else being the same.
So my logic of launching in 1st instead of second, as being gentler is in one respect wrong, as the potential torque is greater assuming the tyres dont spin.....
Usually the figure they are quoting is the engine power figure rather than the actual joint failure rating?
Interestingly my noble joint went on track at silverstone, I believe there were other factors involved in its failure as I think under power on the corners the shaft was bottoming out within the joint and thus more loads along with the power was put on the joint.
Interestingly my noble joint went on track at silverstone, I believe there were other factors involved in its failure as I think under power on the corners the shaft was bottoming out within the joint and thus more loads along with the power was put on the joint.
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