Oil advice and recommendations here!
Discussion
rgc-lr said:
Guy,
Ovoline Lubricants is a company based on the banks of the Tyne in Gateshead - apparently for 125 years!
I have just put their ATF Dexron III in my main gearbox. Their synthetic EP90 and synthetic ATF get good write-ups - things like smoother, quieter, more mpg, etc. Also said to be long lasting 48,000 mile change interval (haven't used it yet)
They also do "Synol 5W40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil" which mentions cold start protection and "formulated from state of the art synthetic base stocks" and - it's the same price as the Shell which I suppose makes it "cheap".
What change interval would you recommend for fully synthetic?
Any comments gratefully received into my currently overloaded brain (done a lot of reading about oil recently and it is quite complicated isn't it?)
(don't know if I should mention the website names)
Thanks again,
Rupert Cook.
Rupert,
I will do a search on Ovaline.
If I can find some technical data on their oils I will be able to make a comparason.
The oil change interval on a synthetic vary. This is because a lot of synthetics are not a synthetic inthe true sense of the work as they are hydrocracked mineral oil and not a PAO or Ester/PAO base stock oil.
The hydrocracked oils have are little more than a semi synthetic and oil changes are around 6000 miles depending on quality. With a true synthetic your are looking at 9000 miles plus.
Cheers
Guy.
Duncan23 said:
I have a 1985 FIAT Uno Turbo ie. It is 1300cc (or 1299?).
No mods aside from a cone filter and daft exhaust (neither of them my fault). It has doen 120,000 miles though.
It is currently using a semi-synth 10W40. My garage (indy FIAT specialist) took one look at the 5W40 synth I bought last time and told me it would run (and burn) straight out of the engine! I figured with a turbo the oil could use all the help it could get. With semi-synth I change it every 3-4000 miles.
I'm looking at maybe getting myself a 1980 1300cc Lancia Beta. With engines this old is it worth running synths, or am I better off with a quality semi synth?
Thank you very much - this is a great thread. Your website is pretty damn useful too
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Tuesday 23 November 15:22
The recomended oil for the Uno Turbo a 10w-40 or 15w-40, you can use anything from a mineral to a true synthetic.
I would not go as thin as a 5w-40 as it will be a little thin when cold.
A good 10w-40 would be the best bet, I personally would use a good semi or a full syntheitc over a mineral, if the car is driven hard than a shear stable fully syntheitc could be an idea.
Some thing like the Motul 300v 10w-40 chrono would be the top option.
With older cars you can use a fully synthetic and there will be gainse, though with an older engine you will need a thick one, 10w-40 to 15w-50.
I hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
Ps. If you want to sell the Uno let me know.
Thought this may be of interest.
The Myths regarding Synthetic Oils
The benefits of Synthetic motor oils have been much debated over the last 10 years and misinformation is rife, particularly on the internet.
There are many so-called experts out there who should know better but hopefully this post will shed some light on some of the most common myths.
What are Synthetic Oils?
Synthetic Oils are fuel efficient, more fluid and resistant to thermal breakdown, they are constructed in laboratories using basestocks and special additive packages. They are specially formulated to meet and perform to standards set by API and ACEA as required by OEM’s.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
This is untrue. Why would lubricant manufacturers build products that are
incompatible with seals. The composition of seals present problems that all types of oils must overcome.
At the end of the day, it is the additive pack in the oil that counts. Additives are added control the swelling, shrinking and hardening of seals.
Synthetics are too thin.
This is untrue. In order for an oil to be classified in any SAE grade (0W-40, 5w-40,10W-40 etc) it has to meet guidelines with regard to viscosity or thickness.
For example, any oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 has to operate at -25 degrees centigrade and 100 degrees centigrade to pass these tests or it cannot be rated as a 10W-40.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage.
This is untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that don't leak oil. In these engines oil consumption will actually be lower because of the lower volatility of Synthetics. They also have better sealing capabilities between piston rings and cylinder walls. Synthetics also have better oxidation stability. (They resist reacting with oxygen at high temperatures)
Synthetic Oils are not compatible with other oils.
This is untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials from high quality basestocks are fully compatible with other oils.
It is best to stick to the same oil for topping up that you have in the engine. It is best not to mix oils, as additives are blended for specific oils. When different oils are mixed additive pack balances can be upset so for the best performance, it’s better not to mix them.
Synthetic Oils produce sludge.
This is untrue. It is a fact that they are more sludge resistant than other oils as they are better at resisting high temperatures and oxidation. Because Synthetic oils have higher flash points, they withstand evaporation better leaving less deposits.
Synthetic oils can't be used with catalytic converters.
This is untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and other oils with regards to the components. Neither will damage catalytic converters.
Synthetic oils can void warranties.
This is untrue. No major manufacturers specifically ban the use of synthetic
oils. More and more new performance cars are factory filled with Synthetic oils.
Vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service
Classifications and recommended viscosities.
Synthetic oils will last forever.
This is untrue. There are some people that believe that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever. However, it is a well known fact that eventually the additives will break down and cause the oil to degrade. The additives in the oil are effectively “used up” by moisture, fuel dilution and acids. Regularly topping up the oil will help but sensible oil change periods are recommended.
Synthetic oils will protect an engine for far longer periods than non-synthetics.
Synthetic oils are too expensive.
This is untrue. It has been proven through testing that Synthetic oils do have longer drain periods and provide better fuel economy. Add this to reduced engine wear and better reliability then do the maths. They are in reality better value for money than other oils.
Cheers
Guy
The Myths regarding Synthetic Oils
The benefits of Synthetic motor oils have been much debated over the last 10 years and misinformation is rife, particularly on the internet.
There are many so-called experts out there who should know better but hopefully this post will shed some light on some of the most common myths.
What are Synthetic Oils?
Synthetic Oils are fuel efficient, more fluid and resistant to thermal breakdown, they are constructed in laboratories using basestocks and special additive packages. They are specially formulated to meet and perform to standards set by API and ACEA as required by OEM’s.
Synthetic motor oils damage seals.
This is untrue. Why would lubricant manufacturers build products that are
incompatible with seals. The composition of seals present problems that all types of oils must overcome.
At the end of the day, it is the additive pack in the oil that counts. Additives are added control the swelling, shrinking and hardening of seals.
Synthetics are too thin.
This is untrue. In order for an oil to be classified in any SAE grade (0W-40, 5w-40,10W-40 etc) it has to meet guidelines with regard to viscosity or thickness.
For example, any oil with a viscosity of 10W-40 has to operate at -25 degrees centigrade and 100 degrees centigrade to pass these tests or it cannot be rated as a 10W-40.
Synthetics mean higher oil usage.
This is untrue. Synthetic motor oils are intended for use in mechanically sound engines, that don't leak oil. In these engines oil consumption will actually be lower because of the lower volatility of Synthetics. They also have better sealing capabilities between piston rings and cylinder walls. Synthetics also have better oxidation stability. (They resist reacting with oxygen at high temperatures)
Synthetic Oils are not compatible with other oils.
This is untrue. The synthesized hydrocarbons, polyalphaolefins, diesters and other materials from high quality basestocks are fully compatible with other oils.
It is best to stick to the same oil for topping up that you have in the engine. It is best not to mix oils, as additives are blended for specific oils. When different oils are mixed additive pack balances can be upset so for the best performance, it’s better not to mix them.
Synthetic Oils produce sludge.
This is untrue. It is a fact that they are more sludge resistant than other oils as they are better at resisting high temperatures and oxidation. Because Synthetic oils have higher flash points, they withstand evaporation better leaving less deposits.
Synthetic oils can't be used with catalytic converters.
This is untrue. There is no difference between synthetic and other oils with regards to the components. Neither will damage catalytic converters.
Synthetic oils can void warranties.
This is untrue. No major manufacturers specifically ban the use of synthetic
oils. More and more new performance cars are factory filled with Synthetic oils.
Vehicle warranties are based upon the use of oils meeting specific API Service
Classifications and recommended viscosities.
Synthetic oils will last forever.
This is untrue. There are some people that believe that synthetic basestocks themselves can be used forever. However, it is a well known fact that eventually the additives will break down and cause the oil to degrade. The additives in the oil are effectively “used up” by moisture, fuel dilution and acids. Regularly topping up the oil will help but sensible oil change periods are recommended.
Synthetic oils will protect an engine for far longer periods than non-synthetics.
Synthetic oils are too expensive.
This is untrue. It has been proven through testing that Synthetic oils do have longer drain periods and provide better fuel economy. Add this to reduced engine wear and better reliability then do the maths. They are in reality better value for money than other oils.
Cheers
Guy
The syn power may well be a full synthetic, it certainly does not contain ester so at best is a pao synthetic or a pao blend, but then addatives, vi improver and detergents make up the rest, and it is these ingredients I fear are cheap and chearfull.
I stand by what I said earlier, in a daily runaround no problem, but I would still not put it in my pride and joy.
You do get what you pay for.
Cheers
Guy.
I stand by what I said earlier, in a daily runaround no problem, but I would still not put it in my pride and joy.
You do get what you pay for.
Cheers
Guy.
Basestock classifications are as follows:
API base oil classifications are used for base oil interchange and blending guidelines.
They are based on sulphur content and saturate level. Saturate level refers to the carbon - carbon & carbon - hydrogen bonding mechanism within the molecule; high saturates considered to give a more stable product and to be generally beneficial for our purposes.
Conventional solvent refined paraffinic stocks as used in vast majority of formulations are Group 1. Group 2 not normally available in the UK. Group 3 are the high VI hydrocracked stocks.
All PAOs fall into Group 4. Group 5 is anything else for example esters.
Cheers
Guy
API base oil classifications are used for base oil interchange and blending guidelines.
They are based on sulphur content and saturate level. Saturate level refers to the carbon - carbon & carbon - hydrogen bonding mechanism within the molecule; high saturates considered to give a more stable product and to be generally beneficial for our purposes.
Conventional solvent refined paraffinic stocks as used in vast majority of formulations are Group 1. Group 2 not normally available in the UK. Group 3 are the high VI hydrocracked stocks.
All PAOs fall into Group 4. Group 5 is anything else for example esters.
Cheers
Guy
bilton_d said:
Does it honestly make that much difference if you are just using the vehicle as a normal form of transport where excessive heat build up isn't an issue and your not bouncing it off the rev limiter every gear change?
As a rule i try not to take it above 2000 rpm for the first 5 mile and maybe 3000 rpm for the next 5 mile or so and it only rarely goes above 4000 rpm.
It depends,
If you are talking about a daily driver which is not a sports car then the standard recomended oil with regular changes is fine, however if you are driving a sports car hard or not, than good quality oil makes large difference from engine protection to inreased mpg.
Cheers
Guy.
GCCK said:
Guy - most impressed with what you're doing on here. We'll never know how much money you've saved folks who've NOT destroyed their engines as a result of authoritative advice.
Currently using Carlube Triple R 5W/40 fully synthetic in my Lotus Elise S1 '99. The packaging states it was developed in association with Lotus Motorsport. Bought the car 9/04.
The standard 1.8 Rover K-series puts out 118bhp, mine is now 170+ with a VHPD head, direct-to-head throttle bodies and new, re-mapped ECU. Went to a track day late last year and was concerned that the engine sounded "thrashy" on the way home. Fine starting from cold the next day. Level was checked before, during & after event and no perceptable use in 200 miles and half-way between markers on dipstick. Previously had a std Elise and relative to that one, the tuned car runs hotter (road or track).
Once saw a thread suggesting VHPD heads (as per Exige) need thicker oil than standard engines but not been able to track it down lately. Could you substantiate this and if appropriate, recommend an alternative oil to try?
Thanks in advance,
Graeme
Graeme,
The problem here could be the quality of the oil, Carlube is kind of cheap and chearful oil, even though it says it is a fully synthetic it is not, it is a hydrocracked mineral oil, it was developed with Lotus because Carlube payed a lot of money to be associated with the Lotus name as it is great for marketing, if you get the picture. After a track day a 5w-40 H/C oil will be functioning as a 5w-30 or lowever hense the thrashy sound as the oil thins down under temps.
I would suggest you stick around the same grade 5w-40 is good for the K-series but an improvement on quality would be a good idea. The likes of Motul and Silkolene both do ester/pao synthetic 5w-40 that are ideal for track use as the esters can take sustained temps and basically a general beating before it will start to break down.
You can find tech specs on these oils here www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Also it might be worth going to have a look at the BlatChat boards as we have done a lot of work with these guys sorting out the best options.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy
pesty said:
what would you recomend for a
1993 VW corado 2.9 V6 116k miles on the clock recent new head.
Cheers
The recomended oil for the car is a 5w-40 full synthetic or a 10w-40 semi synthetic that meets the VW505.00 spec. Being a V6 I would go for a full synthetic, if the car is modiefied or used on a track then it may be worth considering a slightly thicker oil like a 10w-50 to cope with the extra temps, if not just stick with a good quality 5w-40, plenty to look at here www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
Cheers
Guy.
Fatboy said:
Hi Guy,
Got another oil question for you - I've just bought a 1988 Porsche 944 Lux (2.5 engine, 138,000 miles), and would like to know what oil you recommend I use in her? I'm planning on doing an oil and filter change as I don't know what's in her at the moment.
I don't do track days, but do like giving it some serious beans every so often, with a fair few drag races thrown in over the summer, and probably quite a few motorway miles.
Cheers Mate,
Fatboy
Fatboy,
The stock recomendation for the car is for a 5w-40 full synthetic, or 10w-40 semi, with the kind of use you have suggested I would only go full synthetic, also if you were to use a grade like 10w-50 it will be the best compromise for all your driving habits.
I would suggest the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 ester/pao synthetic as it is a top quality oil and also Porsche approved.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
Sparks,
The recomended grade for your car is a 5w-40 full synthetic. I am assuming this is what the stealer has put in, or should have anyway.
If the dealer has put in good quality oil then the 9k service with your described use is fine, the fact that it goes black is a sign the oil is doing its job, however diesels are dirty engines anyway and will produce a lot of by products.
Much as I would like to try and sell you some oil, everything seems fine here. Unless your going to modify the car then there is no need to step out of the standard grade and drain interval.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
The recomended grade for your car is a 5w-40 full synthetic. I am assuming this is what the stealer has put in, or should have anyway.
If the dealer has put in good quality oil then the 9k service with your described use is fine, the fact that it goes black is a sign the oil is doing its job, however diesels are dirty engines anyway and will produce a lot of by products.
Much as I would like to try and sell you some oil, everything seems fine here. Unless your going to modify the car then there is no need to step out of the standard grade and drain interval.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
optimanc said:
Hi Guy
My 2.0ltr E36 is due a service and it has now clocked just over 168,000. I usually use Castrol GTX Magnitech 10w 40.
Considering its mileage would you recommend using oil designed for high mileage such as Valvoline Max Life or should I stick with Castrol?
Many thanks
Some high mileage oils will contain an addative to encourage the seals to swell, a well maintained car should not need this. Most high mileage oils are market reaserch to see who is buying their oil, along with most diesel oils, in reality they are generally the same as petrol.
The magnatec is a semi synthetic, however much better semi synthetics are available, in terms of base stock used and addatives, magnatec is the result of clever marketing!
Or you could move up to a full synthetic, 5w-40 grade for all year round use.
Cheers
Guy.
nig-gtv said:
Hi Guy,
Good of you to offer your expert advice!...
MAKE: Alfa Romeo
MODEL: GTV
ENGINE: 3.0 V6 24v
YEAR: 1999
The car has always been run on Selenia 20k (10w/40). However, last time I had it serviced the garage used 5w/40, saying that it would give better engine protection. Its now due another service, and I am not sure whether to get 5w/40 again, 10w/40 as per usual, or lash out on some 10w/60 (which is mentionned in the handbook as an alternative.
Which is going to give me all round best engine protection and quiet running?
Cheers!
The recomended grade for all year round running for a fully synthetic is for a 5w-40, if you use a semi synthetic then a 10w-40.
For all year ro9und use the 5w-40 will give you the best cold stasrt protection and mpg, the 10w-60 is recomended in the handbook for hard driving, but not in our climate, over here a 10w-50 is more apropriate, a 10w-50 will help keep the engine quiet if it is a little noisy.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
MGBV8 said:
Guy,
Can you expain Exactly why Magnatec (readily available) is not considered a good oil, as its the only Part synthetic oil, as far as I am aware, that has stated ester content rather than just synthetic which could be just GIII.
High Mileage oils do have a different specification
http://home.comcast.net/~dsmphotos/cgtx.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~dsmphotos/himile.jpg
It is only a part synthetic, it does contain ester, however for ester to be really effective in an oil you will need 20% content plus, the magnatec contains only a few % at best (marketing).
On those data sheets the figures that indicate poor base stock and shear strength is the VI Index number and HTHS numbers, they should be higher.
Cheers
Guy.
Si,
I am suprised they are putting Magnatec in your car, the correct recomended grade for the car is a 5w-40/0w-30/0w-40 fully synthetic and also a BMW approved oil is an advantage.
The Magnatec is a semi synthetic and not BMW approved as far as I am aware, but I could be wrong on that one.
You are free to take in your own oil to the garage, at the end of the day it is your car and if the oil is BMW approved there can be no warrenty issues, keeping your service stamp.
Remember each dealer will sign a deal to supply oil, some Mobil, others Castrol etc, they are not going to put in the best oil, because this would cost them more money to buy, meaning they would have to charge more at oil change time to keep their margins up.
You are getting the rattle on start up because the oil is not really the best for your car, not giving the best cold start protection.
For a selection of BMW approved full synthetics, go here www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
And have a look at the likes of Motul, Mobil, Silkolene and Fuchs.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
I am suprised they are putting Magnatec in your car, the correct recomended grade for the car is a 5w-40/0w-30/0w-40 fully synthetic and also a BMW approved oil is an advantage.
The Magnatec is a semi synthetic and not BMW approved as far as I am aware, but I could be wrong on that one.
You are free to take in your own oil to the garage, at the end of the day it is your car and if the oil is BMW approved there can be no warrenty issues, keeping your service stamp.
Remember each dealer will sign a deal to supply oil, some Mobil, others Castrol etc, they are not going to put in the best oil, because this would cost them more money to buy, meaning they would have to charge more at oil change time to keep their margins up.
You are getting the rattle on start up because the oil is not really the best for your car, not giving the best cold start protection.
For a selection of BMW approved full synthetics, go here www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm
And have a look at the likes of Motul, Mobil, Silkolene and Fuchs.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Guy.
MGBV8 said:
Guy,
A few % of esters is no more than an additive and at least 10-30% is required. Part synthetic is a dubious term in these circumstances. Is it possible to add some numbers comparing Magnatec with a good semi and a full "true" synthetic.
What do you make of a VI of 200?
I will dig out some figures.
Cheers
Guy.
zeddy3 said:
thank you for that info
in your opinion, since it's had a service only recently would i be wise to change the oil again or can significant damge to an engine occur in approx 1 year (next service)
>> Edited by zeddy3 on Wednesday 26th January 13:05
I would change it at the next service.
Cheers
Guy.
MGBV8 said:
Guy,
A few % of esters is no more than an additive and at least 10-30% is required. Part synthetic is a dubious term in these circumstances. Is it possible to add some numbers comparing Magnatec with a good semi and a full "true" synthetic.
What do you make of a VI of 200?
I agree, most only contain this.
Silkolene PRO and Motul 300V have a good slug of around 20% which is why they stand up on paper.
A VI of 200 is achieveable but unfortunately unless it is backed up with good HTHS and NOACK numbers it means nothing. Basically the VI Index does not tell you either how shear stable or how volatile the product is and this is important.
You need a high VI, High HTHS and Low NOACK figure to indicate a great oil.
EG.
Silkolene PRO S 10w-50 (Ester/PAO)
VI 174
HTHS 5.11
Noack 5
I'm sure if you look hard enough you'll find better but at what price and availability?
Cheers
Guy
Andyz said:
Hi
Id be grateful if you could tell what oils best for my Saab 93
1998 2.0 high pressure turbo model
only recently aquired no mods and with 127000 on the clock
Engine seems fine at the moment dont know what oils have been used but it does have a full dealer service history every 10k or so.
I do about 20k a year vast majority on motorways
Thanks in advance
The recomended grade for your car is a 10w-40 semi synthetic or a 5w-40 full synthetic. If you are doing long hard mileage then a syntetic is the way forward for both cold start protection, mpg and extra protection for the high pressure turbo.
Plenty of good choices around, for a 5w-40 look at the likes of Motul, Silkolene, Fuchs, Mobil and stay away from home brands.
Cheers
Guy.
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