Discussion
HappyMidget said:
fastbikes76 said:
Sadly I don't have the space for a 1000L IBC or I would buy that instead, at the rate I go through it the savings are huge !
Still trying to work out where I could put a barrel TBH! Wonder if she would notice me burying the IBC in the drive 
minime68 said:
So i just called Eko Fuel and spoke to them regarding the product. While it is marketed for fireplaces, there is nothing that would prevent me from running it on the car safely. I can mix it with gasoline and go about my business. Beats paying £75 for 19 liters at the Pod!
so is all ethanol simply ethanol ?Why is so called C85 that the likes of VP sell hugely more expensive than regular E85 ( if it existed in the UK )
Likewise I've never udterstood why pure methanol from a chemical supplier is about 1/5th the price of so called M1 methanol from a race fuel supplier.
It's a simple chemical, not a huge array of chemicals like petrol can be. So what makes one more expensive than the other ?
Because C85 is a race fuel based on e85 http://www.racefuel.com/vp-c85-racing-fuel/
I imagine that M1 is made to a higher purity standard than regular idustrial methanol
I imagine that M1 is made to a higher purity standard than regular idustrial methanol
stevieturbo said:
so is all ethanol simply ethanol ?
Why is so called C85 that the likes of VP sell hugely more expensive than regular E85 ( if it existed in the UK )
Likewise I've never udterstood why pure methanol from a chemical supplier is about 1/5th the price of so called M1 methanol from a race fuel supplier.
It's a simple chemical, not a huge array of chemicals like petrol can be. So what makes one more expensive than the other ?
My guess is "marketing". A big part of the VP fuel that Pod sells is that they guarantee a perfect mixture of 85% ethanol 15% gasoline. Pump E85 can vary from 55% to 85% ethanol and can be inconsistent particularly during winter months. If your car is mapped specifically for E85, then you want that. I run a flex fuel sensor so the tune adjusts depending on the content.Why is so called C85 that the likes of VP sell hugely more expensive than regular E85 ( if it existed in the UK )
Likewise I've never udterstood why pure methanol from a chemical supplier is about 1/5th the price of so called M1 methanol from a race fuel supplier.
It's a simple chemical, not a huge array of chemicals like petrol can be. So what makes one more expensive than the other ?
I buy 10 litre containers on Ebay here in Germany that are 96%, mix it with gasoline and go about my way.
liner33 said:
Because C85 is a race fuel based on e85 http://www.racefuel.com/vp-c85-racing-fuel/
I imagine that M1 is made to a higher purity standard than regular idustrial methanol
Chemical methanol I use for water injection..and indeed most methanol sold is 99.99% pure.I imagine that M1 is made to a higher purity standard than regular idustrial methanol
I'd struggle to believe the expensive stuff is more purer lol.
Apparently C85 contains MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyle Ether)additive which is not compatible with some injectors but reportedly nets 2-3% more power. This is not worth the additional cost for most street users. Here is what VP Racing fuel says about it:
"If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VPs MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money."
"If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VPs MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money."
minime68 said:
Apparently C85 contains MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyle Ether)additive which is not compatible with some injectors but reportedly nets 2-3% more power. This is not worth the additional cost for most street users. Here is what VP Racing fuel says about it:
"If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VPs MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money."
Naturally they're going to big up their own product and I guess consistency is one aspect. But I'd just find it hard to accept the price. Both it and race fuel are still around 5x the price of normal fuel here. And normal fuel is bloody expensive !"If you’re committed to using E85 type fuels, C85 is by far your best choice. Conventional E85 fuels are notoriously inconsistent, requiring up to a two-jet swing in tuning from one batch of E85 to the next. By contrast, C85 is blended with a consistent proportion of ethanol and every other component in every drum. In addition to taking all the guesswork out of tuning, C85 makes up to 4% more power and torque than conventional E85. With higher quality pure components, C85 is superior to E85 in terms of cooling effect, resistance to detonation and even includes corrosion inhibitors to fight the issues presented by ethanol. C85 works well in drag racing, oval track, off road and virtually any other automotive application, in particular forced induction applications due to its lower vapor pressure. Tests of C85 indicate most applications will require richening up by 1 jet size, or 2-3% over current jetting. Note that for racers unwilling to invest in the new carb and expensive fuel system upgrade required for E85, VPs MS109, VP113 and Q16 continue to be the best race gas alternatives for the money."
I've just never been able to bring myself to believe it is worth the money, or seen any true back to back tests that really validate its worth
The other aspect with E85 that seems to be huge in the US from reading Tech etc. Is gumming up of filters, injectors etc. Some of those guys are needing to clean injectors almost once or twice a year ! Surely all E85 systems cannot be that bad ?
I know a lot of the big power GTR's in the UK seem to favour C85. Over the 1km...I still go faster than most of them though on pump+meth. Which again makes me wonder is it worth spending the extra.
Making the power without fancy fuel is not difficult.
But the popularity of E85 around the world must mean something, the yanks really love it ! Although no doubt its cheap for them which helps.
stevieturbo said:
Naturally they're going to big up their own product and I guess consistency is one aspect. But I'd just find it hard to accept the price. Both it and race fuel are still around 5x the price of normal fuel here. And normal fuel is bloody expensive !
I've just never been able to bring myself to believe it is worth the money, or seen any true back to back tests that really validate its worth
The other aspect with E85 that seems to be huge in the US from reading Tech etc. Is gumming up of filters, injectors etc. Some of those guys are needing to clean injectors almost once or twice a year ! Surely all E85 systems cannot be that bad ?
I know a lot of the big power GTR's in the UK seem to favour C85. Over the 1km...I still go faster than most of them though on pump+meth. Which again makes me wonder is it worth spending the extra.
Making the power without fancy fuel is not difficult.
But the popularity of E85 around the world must mean something, the yanks really love it ! Although no doubt its cheap for them which helps.
The problem is that most of the folks on Tech are using their existing fuel system or piecing one together to run the fuel Some hoses, pumps or injectors are incompatible. That's why they run in "gum" issues. Basically rubber or plastic components deteriorating. I've just never been able to bring myself to believe it is worth the money, or seen any true back to back tests that really validate its worth
The other aspect with E85 that seems to be huge in the US from reading Tech etc. Is gumming up of filters, injectors etc. Some of those guys are needing to clean injectors almost once or twice a year ! Surely all E85 systems cannot be that bad ?
I know a lot of the big power GTR's in the UK seem to favour C85. Over the 1km...I still go faster than most of them though on pump+meth. Which again makes me wonder is it worth spending the extra.
Making the power without fancy fuel is not difficult.
But the popularity of E85 around the world must mean something, the yanks really love it ! Although no doubt its cheap for them which helps.
My fuel system was built specifically to handle alcohol based fuels (along with traditional gasoline) so the lines, pump, and injectors were all sourced with this purpose in mind. My injectors are squeaky clean though I must add I don't run ethanol 100% of the time.
My pump gas tune does run with 100% meth and no where in hell it make the power it does on E85. Night and day. Oh, and of course they're going to talk up their product. To the average person, it is not worth the extra cost period.
Most are building the system specifically to run E85, as said, they love the stuff and its dirt cheap over there.
But they still have problems.
Although I'd agree, the fact you use pump fuel a lot to is bound to help cleanse the system. Most of the yanks run E85 full time, so they're bound to see more issues.
I doubt I'll ever try the E85...but I might try some race fuel someday.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how you go at Santa Pod though.
But they still have problems.
Although I'd agree, the fact you use pump fuel a lot to is bound to help cleanse the system. Most of the yanks run E85 full time, so they're bound to see more issues.
I doubt I'll ever try the E85...but I might try some race fuel someday.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how you go at Santa Pod though.
stevieturbo said:
Most are building the system specifically to run E85, as said, they love the stuff and its dirt cheap over there.
But they still have problems.
Although I'd agree, the fact you use pump fuel a lot to is bound to help cleanse the system. Most of the yanks run E85 full time, so they're bound to see more issues.
I doubt I'll ever try the E85...but I might try some race fuel someday.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how you go at Santa Pod though.
I'm skeptical I'd do much better but we will see. I have not tested this setup from a dig hard to tell how it will do with limited passes. I do know if I manage to leave the with a 1.5 or so 60ft there is a good chance I will be in the 9s.But they still have problems.
Although I'd agree, the fact you use pump fuel a lot to is bound to help cleanse the system. Most of the yanks run E85 full time, so they're bound to see more issues.
I doubt I'll ever try the E85...but I might try some race fuel someday.
It'll certainly be interesting to see how you go at Santa Pod though.
minime68 said:
I'm skeptical I'd do much better but we will see. I have not tested this setup from a dig hard to tell how it will do with limited passes. I do know if I manage to leave the with a 1.5 or so 60ft there is a good chance I will be in the 9s.
Even if you can get into the 1.6's I'd say a 9 should be well on the cards. 1.5's would be very safely into the 9's
HappyMidget said:
Do you need a chute if you are going sub 10?
Archaic US rules state 150mph+ and you need a chute. I dont think there are any that relate to actual ET for a chute though.RWYB here it doesnt matter, although if competing it may.
Although those rules are based around pieces of s
t with no brakes, stty suspension, stty tyres and ancient junk that weighs 6 tons.In short...stuff that really shouldnt be near a track in the first place.
mini_me said:
Well, first I gotta get into the 9s haha. I called a few weeks back and spoke to the staff. I should be ok with no chute but it is recommended for sub 11s cars.
I've ran 9's, I've ran 150+, a friend has ran bottom of 9's. No chutes, no problem.But also no silly s
te handling pieces of junk the rules are based on lolGassing Station | HSV & Monaro | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff