S into 9 does go........

[8Tech]

So during a wonderful mid summer weekend of glorious UK weather, I decided to do some playing on the car rather than driving it.

I was not really impressed with the roll characteristics of my DB9 Volante, and a quick investigation proved why. No rear roll bar fitted! The last car I saw without a roll bar was a Mk4 Escort, and even Ford ended up fitting them after the first year due to the awful lean on the cars.

I then decided to install a Sport DBS roll bar kit and wondered whether it was a strightforward install.

So here is the results................

New 29mm rear bar, drop-links, bushes and clamps on the rear.

[pic] [/pic]

and a new front bar up from 26mm to 28mm reusing all the original links but with appropriate 28mm bushes...........

[pic] [/pic]

Well, the handling is transformed with absolutely no degradation in ride quality or comfort.

Time taken? A total of 2 hours taking my time copper-slipping bushes, bolt threads etc, torqueing everything in sight and cleaning up all the bits pulled-off before refitting them. Could easily be done in half that time if not being anal about the cleaning part.

So I then decided to continue playing with the car.

Watch this space fellow modifiers.

8Tech.

Edited by 8Tech on Sunday 23 June 21:24

Edited by 8Tech on Sunday 23 June 21:25

[stanwan]

Correct me if I am completely wrong, but won't the addition of the rear AR bar increase understeer?

[yeti]

8Tech said:

Watch this space fellow modifiers.

A few of us already have this done on our Nine Volantes courtesy of Bamford Rose, but with a better part than the DBS one It was removed from the Volante by AML purely for cost reasons.

I also have the front and rear shear panels from the Virage Volante installed on mine plus all the required anchor points retro-fitted and welded to my chassis - it was either that or buy a Virage rear end, no need for that if you know where and how to fit them. There are a lot of them, the chassis evolution continues very gradually but noticably year by year.

Makes a huge difference, you're right about that

[Cockernee]

Nice work Gerry, good to see an experienced engineer looking at solutions and sharing with other owners.

How has the handling changed? Any noticeable under or oversteer or just reduced roll?

[michael gould]

mclaren mp4-12c doesn't have them either......so must handle like an Escort Mk4

[yeti]

Cockernee said:

How has the handling changed? Any noticeable under or oversteer or just reduced roll?

You drove Woolders car with this mod done you herbert

[Cockernee]

yeti said:

Cockernee said:

How has the handling changed? Any noticeable under or oversteer or just reduced roll?

You drove Woolders car with this mod done you herbert

No, I drove Woolders car with the BR mods done . That included shear plates also, so different.

[DB9VolanteDriver]

michael gould said:

mclaren mp4-12c doesn't have them either......so must handle like an Escort Mk4

Doesn't need rollbars because it has active suspension to perform that function.

[michael gould]

DB9VolanteDriver said:

michael gould said:

mclaren mp4-12c doesn't have them either......so must handle like an Escort Mk4

Doesn't need rollbars because it has active suspension to perform that function.

you learn something new every day

[mikey k]

michael gould said:

DB9VolanteDriver said:

michael gould said:

mclaren mp4-12c doesn't have them either......so must handle like an Escort Mk4

Doesn't need rollbars because it has active suspension to perform that function.

you learn something new every day

Very clever system used for the first time on a road car in the MP4 12C

interweb MP4 review said:

Essentially, what happens is that a standard-looking (though smallish) coil spring provides the basic suspension action, carrying about 25% of the load at each wheel. The air and hydraulics, meanwhile, combine to control the adjustability of the ride stiffness as well as the ride height, the two separate tracts adjusting spring rates as well as damping. Additionally, the hydraulic systems for opposing wheels (left front mated to right rear and vice versa) are linked so that as the inside wheel unloads in a fast curve, pressure is pumped to the opposing damper to firm it up for the load that the g-forces are about to generate. What this all means is that the MP4′s chassis resists roll dynamically without having to resort to the ride-destroying stiffness of thick mechanical anti-sway bars.

[yeti]

Cockernee said:

yeti said:

Cockernee said:

How has the handling changed? Any noticeable under or oversteer or just reduced roll?

You drove Woolders car with this mod done you herbert

No, I drove Woolders car with the BR mods done . That included shear plates also, so different.

Gor blimey, point taken me old china

The anti-roll bar, drop links and shear plates were all done at the same time on mine so I don't know what each part would be like in isolation. I do know it was a lot of work to get the shear plates mounted to every single strong point that a Virage has compared to an early DB9 like mine!

[SydneySE]

8Tech said:

So during a wonderful mid summer weekend of glorious UK weather, I decided to do some playing on the car rather than driving it.

I was not really impressed with the roll characteristics of my DB9 Volante, and a quick investigation proved why. No rear roll bar fitted! The last car I saw without a roll bar was a Mk4 Escort, and even Ford ended up fitting them after the first year due to the awful lean on the cars.

I then decided to install a Sport DBS roll bar kit and wondered whether it was a strightforward install.

So here is the results................

New 29mm rear bar, drop-links, bushes and clamps on the rear.

[pic] [/pic]

and a new front bar up from 26mm to 28mm reusing all the original links but with appropriate 28mm bushes...........

[pic] [/pic]

Well, the handling is transformed with absolutely no degradation in ride quality or comfort.

Time taken? A total of 2 hours taking my time copper-slipping bushes, bolt threads etc, torqueing everything in sight and cleaning up all the bits pulled-off before refitting them. Could easily be done in half that time if not being anal about the cleaning part.

So I then decided to continue playing with the car.

Watch this space fellow modifiers.

8Tech.

Edited by 8Tech on Sunday 23 June 21:24

Edited by 8Tech on Sunday 23 June 21:25

Hi Mate,

Was this a straight bolt on job? no welding brackets to fit the rear drop links or drilling holes to mount the c-clamps?

Also, are these just the straight DBS parts if I order from scuderia parts?

[F1 NDW]

mikey k said:

michael gould said:

DB9VolanteDriver said:

michael gould said:

mclaren mp4-12c doesn't have them either......so must handle like an Escort Mk4

Doesn't need rollbars because it has active suspension to perform that function.

you learn something new every day

Very clever system used for the first time on a road car in the MP4 12C

interweb MP4 review said:

Essentially, what happens is that a standard-looking (though smallish) coil spring provides the basic suspension action, carrying about 25% of the load at each wheel. The air and hydraulics, meanwhile, combine to control the adjustability of the ride stiffness as well as the ride height, the two separate tracts adjusting spring rates as well as damping. Additionally, the hydraulic systems for opposing wheels (left front mated to right rear and vice versa) are linked so that as the inside wheel unloads in a fast curve, pressure is pumped to the opposing damper to firm it up for the load that the g-forces are about to generate. What this all means is that the MP4′s chassis resists roll dynamically without having to resort to the ride-destroying stiffness of thick mechanical anti-sway bars.

Haven’t our new best friends Mercedes Benz been using active suspension since the turn of the millennium? Something else to look forward to in Astons of the future!

[mikey k]

V12VS already has adaptive suspension rather than the switchable suspension on the DBS/DB9.2
AFAIK it is similar to the Jag system that stiffens individual dampers as a car corners to keep it flat

[DB9VolanteDriver]

mikey k said:

V12VS already has adaptive suspension rather than the switchable suspension on the DBS/DB9.2
AFAIK it is similar to the Jag system that stiffens individual dampers as a car corners to keep it flat

DBS is switchable AND adaptive, not to say that it acts as a rollbar also, which may or may not be the case for the V12VS.

[8Tech]

SydneySE said:

Hi Mate,

Was this a straight bolt on job? no welding brackets to fit the rear drop links or drilling holes to mount the c-clamps?

Also, are these just the straight DBS parts if I order from scuderia parts?

Yes, all straight bolt-on.

You will need, both bars, 2 sets of DBS roll bar bushes to suit, rear droplinks with 2 new hardened washers and rear "U" clamps. It actually takes longer removing the undertray at the front, cleaning it and refitting it than it does to fit the bars.

[8Tech]

Cockernee said:

Nice work Gerry, good to see an experienced engineer looking at solutions and sharing with other owners.

How has the handling changed? Any noticeable under or oversteer or just reduced roll?

I have noticed significantly reduced roll but admit to never pushing it far enough to induce under/oversteer yet.

Given the correct conditions, and plenty of room, I will push harder and harder until one or the other raises its ugly head, or, confirm perfect balance as I hope.

I am now working with 2 of the worlds largest suspension manufacturers to produce springs and damper upgrades. Visiting the design and development sections this Friday actually to start on the designs.

[8Tech]

yeti said:

I also have the front and rear shear panels from the Virage Volante installed on mine plus all the required anchor points retro-fitted and welded to my chassis - it was either that or buy a Virage rear end, no need for that if you know where and how to fit them. There are a lot of them, the chassis evolution continues very gradually but noticably year by year.

Makes a huge difference, you're right about that

I am looking at the shear plates but working through the components on the suspension one function at a time. As you very correctly say, with doing all at once, there is no way to know which component had what effect.

[KarlFranz]

Most active suspensions are actually more like "re-active" in that they adjust themselves as the loads are actually changing. Legend has it that in the late '80s to early '90s, Lotus pioneered an active suspension on an Esprit test mule that actually scanned the road surface ahead and adjusted the suspension accordingly. Kind of reminded me of the old cartoons where the car is going up and down the hills and the suspension is stretching or shrinking to keep the car at exactly the same height.

[woolders]

8Tech said:

I am looking at the shear plates but working through the components on the suspension one function at a time. As you very correctly say, with doing all at once, there is no way to know which component had what effect.

Please DO take me as a non mechanical driver but what Yeti and I have is switchable suspension; either great for big cruises or much harder than the usual DB9 Volante car. With the shear plates and roll bar, we have the two best performing pipe and slippers around in the country.

What we do NOtT have is variable suspension which is more unpredictable as far as I am told .

I am sure that those in the know will comment