Brand New Porker or Used Vantage?
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm in a bit of a pickle amount what car to get next. I'm in the military and based in Germany which means I can buy a brand new car without VAT. I took advantage of this in December by buying a Range Rover Sport TDV8. The second hand market for 4x4s has plummeted and so whatever I replace it with I prefer to retain a bit more of it's value.
I've got around £45-55K to spend and the options are buying a used 05/06 Vantage or a brand new either top spec Cayman S or poverty spec Carrera 2. I'll love the Vantage but worried about residuals and running costs. Also buying an 05/06 car will mean the warranty will be running out soon, is this cause for concern?
Any advice on buying an AMV8 would be really helpful, or whether I should go for the Porker.
Thanks in advance,
Rich.
I'm in a bit of a pickle amount what car to get next. I'm in the military and based in Germany which means I can buy a brand new car without VAT. I took advantage of this in December by buying a Range Rover Sport TDV8. The second hand market for 4x4s has plummeted and so whatever I replace it with I prefer to retain a bit more of it's value.
I've got around £45-55K to spend and the options are buying a used 05/06 Vantage or a brand new either top spec Cayman S or poverty spec Carrera 2. I'll love the Vantage but worried about residuals and running costs. Also buying an 05/06 car will mean the warranty will be running out soon, is this cause for concern?
Any advice on buying an AMV8 would be really helpful, or whether I should go for the Porker.
Thanks in advance,
Rich.
No doubt here, but what did you expect posting on this forum...the Vantage without a shadow of a doubt. Porkies are great, but the Aston a different league. Also seem to be fairly reliable, and servicing only slightly more than a Porkie. MPG is worse tho, much worse! Think around 18 for the Vantage, 30 for the Gayman, and 26ish for the 997..
ps extend the warrenty when it runs out, not sure how much it is but what ever it is it will be worth it!
ps extend the warrenty when it runs out, not sure how much it is but what ever it is it will be worth it!
Edited by sadlerj on Saturday 23 August 19:16
Nice as Porsches are, they are hardly a rare sight. A pov spec 911 is not going to be a happy selling proposition in a year or twos time. Nor is a fully loaded Cayman IMO.
However, whichever of the 3 options you choose, you are going to lose some money.
Drive all of them and buy the one that will make you smile each time you see it in the garage and which will make you forget the money side.
Warranty is easily extended, though I'm not sure how much it costs. Factor into the negotiating/buy price
PS If you're concerned about the cash side, why not buy a 3yr old 997 with nicer spec? Or a used Cayman.?
However, whichever of the 3 options you choose, you are going to lose some money.
Drive all of them and buy the one that will make you smile each time you see it in the garage and which will make you forget the money side.
Warranty is easily extended, though I'm not sure how much it costs. Factor into the negotiating/buy price
PS If you're concerned about the cash side, why not buy a 3yr old 997 with nicer spec? Or a used Cayman.?
I think you're right... The Aston really is like no other. So many Porkers around these days, they're just not special. No doubt fantastic drive but I after something a bit more than that.
I'd appreciate if anyone has got an idea about extended warranty though. I would ring a dealer myself but currently somewhere hot and sandy abroad!
I'd appreciate if anyone has got an idea about extended warranty though. I would ring a dealer myself but currently somewhere hot and sandy abroad!
Hi there
Extending the warranty is about £1400 for one year; you can do it for two max (ie making it a five year guarantee in all).
However, if buying off a dealer, then try to do what I did and get the guarantee thrown it in for nowt.
BTW no contest - buy the Aston. i've had both and you'll just feel excited every day by the V8. I use mine every day in London too so it is as practical. Just be prepared for people taking pics, giving you thumbs up etc - something you won't be used to if you've owned Porkers before....
Extending the warranty is about £1400 for one year; you can do it for two max (ie making it a five year guarantee in all).
However, if buying off a dealer, then try to do what I did and get the guarantee thrown it in for nowt.
BTW no contest - buy the Aston. i've had both and you'll just feel excited every day by the V8. I use mine every day in London too so it is as practical. Just be prepared for people taking pics, giving you thumbs up etc - something you won't be used to if you've owned Porkers before....
If you had posted on the Porsche site you would have got the opposite response, no worries.
If you can get the VAT off, you lucky b_d, it presumably makes sense to go new, otherwise you are just in the same position as the rest of us. If you have settled on the Aston, could you not try to negotiate yourself a new V8V with the 4.7 engine? £55k is a big lump of cash to put on the table. That will help you in the future with residuals too. I would also say that with the wodge you have got, you could negotiate a good bit off a new Porsche as well, if you have a friendly PZ.
Second hand Porsches, and older V8V's too for that matter, are heading south fast. If you wanted a Cayman S, and it is fun as you probably know, you will get good second hand ones around £30k in the UK just now.
If you can get the VAT off, you lucky b_d, it presumably makes sense to go new, otherwise you are just in the same position as the rest of us. If you have settled on the Aston, could you not try to negotiate yourself a new V8V with the 4.7 engine? £55k is a big lump of cash to put on the table. That will help you in the future with residuals too. I would also say that with the wodge you have got, you could negotiate a good bit off a new Porsche as well, if you have a friendly PZ.
Second hand Porsches, and older V8V's too for that matter, are heading south fast. If you wanted a Cayman S, and it is fun as you probably know, you will get good second hand ones around £30k in the UK just now.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 25th August 13:45
I have considered a new V8V but with only £55K + VAT to put down, I didn't think it was anywhere within budget. I don't really want to be paying a wedge per month to finance it aswell.
Also from what I've heard from many people it's often irrelevant how much cash you've got up front when it comes to Porsche and Aston. The cars tend to sell themselves so turning up with cash ready doesn't give you the buying power that you might get with another marque. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I do like a good haggle!
Also from what I've heard from many people it's often irrelevant how much cash you've got up front when it comes to Porsche and Aston. The cars tend to sell themselves so turning up with cash ready doesn't give you the buying power that you might get with another marque. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I do like a good haggle!
Richales said:
I have considered a new V8V but with only £55K + VAT to put down, I didn't think it was anywhere within budget. I don't really want to be paying a wedge per month to finance it aswell.
Also from what I've heard from many people it's often irrelevant how much cash you've got up front when it comes to Porsche and Aston. The cars tend to sell themselves so turning up with cash ready doesn't give you the buying power that you might get with another marque. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I do like a good haggle!
'Only 55k'?. try saying that you only have £55k to spend, that you want a new V8V, then try to leave the showroom. This is a good time for a haggle, trust me. Off you go and practice in a local bazaar assuming its safe to do so. All these people like to give the impression that using the word 'discount' in an AM or a Porsche showroom is a unacceptable social gaffe like pissing in your hostess's floral display. Particularly in Britain I have to say. I know a couple of German Porsche centres where they would be very happy to talk turkey on new cars, and in a month or two it will be even more so. Also from what I've heard from many people it's often irrelevant how much cash you've got up front when it comes to Porsche and Aston. The cars tend to sell themselves so turning up with cash ready doesn't give you the buying power that you might get with another marque. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though, I do like a good haggle!
I have an acquaintance who got 20k off a new Arnage - and that was built to his spec not out of a showroom. Bramley, who are not known for being the cheapest, are currently offering a new 997 Turbo, listed at 108k, for 94k. Have a look at their site.
For clarity, there is absolutely no way on this planet that you will get a brand new V8 Vantage for 64k (55k+VAT).
It's possible to get good money off of dealer spec cars, but generally getting anything off own spec cars is good going. Bear in mind that dealer specified cars will have a fair few desirable options and will generally have a list price of >95k.
It's possible to get good money off of dealer spec cars, but generally getting anything off own spec cars is good going. Bear in mind that dealer specified cars will have a fair few desirable options and will generally have a list price of >95k.
No, I would accept that, but the gap is narrowing, and maybe if you wait a bit, amass a little more money, the dealer finds a very good finance deal, you will get it. £55k is one hell of a lot of capital in today's market. I advise against letting it burn its way out of your pocket. The money is earning interest, and the cars are dropping in value. I would tell a couple of dealers that you are interested and wait till one calls back with a serious proposition. Also I have no issue with buying a dealer specced car, they are usually well chosen.
If you sink £64k into a 4.3 V8V just now you are going to have a major and unnecessary depreciation experience in a short time.
If you sink £64k into a 4.3 V8V just now you are going to have a major and unnecessary depreciation experience in a short time.
Edited by cardigankid on Monday 25th August 18:27
Just to clarify, I've got £55K to spend... I can only add the tax if I buy brand new. I know the it's a buyers market at the moment but I'm fairly sure no dealer is going to lop off £30K from a new Aston.
That was really the reason for my discussion on here, do I go for the second hand Aston or a brand new Porsche? I'd prefer the Aston, but I can't ignore the financial benefits of saving 17.5% on a new car when it comes to depreciation on both the Aston and the Porsche.
I'd dearly love to buy a second hand Aston and be able to claim the VAT back but sadly it doesn't work like that... unless anyone knows of such a way!!!
Armed with your useful pointers I think on my return from tour I'll be frequenting a few Porsche dealerships and "showing a bit of green" as the US would say, and see where that gets me. Certainly can't argue with a decent discount on top of VAT off.
I am in the advantageous position that I am in no hurry to buy. I've got to sell the RR Sport yet, and see how much I'll recoup from that first!
Thanks for the advice so far though, invaluable.
That was really the reason for my discussion on here, do I go for the second hand Aston or a brand new Porsche? I'd prefer the Aston, but I can't ignore the financial benefits of saving 17.5% on a new car when it comes to depreciation on both the Aston and the Porsche.
I'd dearly love to buy a second hand Aston and be able to claim the VAT back but sadly it doesn't work like that... unless anyone knows of such a way!!!
Armed with your useful pointers I think on my return from tour I'll be frequenting a few Porsche dealerships and "showing a bit of green" as the US would say, and see where that gets me. Certainly can't argue with a decent discount on top of VAT off.
I am in the advantageous position that I am in no hurry to buy. I've got to sell the RR Sport yet, and see how much I'll recoup from that first!
Thanks for the advice so far though, invaluable.
I highly rate both Pork & Aston, different cars but both with their own appeal, Pork is better "value" has decent residuals to add to the slightly better driving experience, the Aston is more emotive & a much more "special" ownership experience while being nearly as good to drive & having a great image, but because Aston continue to oversupply more than Porsche (relative to their sales potential)... residuals are worse!
A new base 997.2 is nearly 54k ex VAT & you need at least Nav to make it ok for re-sale so your budget is VERY tight when most spend an average 5k on options. As Porsche have just upgraded the base Carrera ready for the recession (now with Xenon's & upgraded brakes along with direct injection offering more power than the pre-facelift S model)& it is the latest model... I think it makes most sense at your budget, the top spec Cayman doesn't as it is due for an upgrade next spring! You will not get a discount on new Pork, but you will on a demo which may be the way to go!
After the tank you are currently driving the Porker will be a revelation, then change for a used 4.7 Aston a while down the road as you really MUST own an Aston if you are able too after which the Porker will seem rather ordinary!
A new base 997.2 is nearly 54k ex VAT & you need at least Nav to make it ok for re-sale so your budget is VERY tight when most spend an average 5k on options. As Porsche have just upgraded the base Carrera ready for the recession (now with Xenon's & upgraded brakes along with direct injection offering more power than the pre-facelift S model)& it is the latest model... I think it makes most sense at your budget, the top spec Cayman doesn't as it is due for an upgrade next spring! You will not get a discount on new Pork, but you will on a demo which may be the way to go!
After the tank you are currently driving the Porker will be a revelation, then change for a used 4.7 Aston a while down the road as you really MUST own an Aston if you are able too after which the Porker will seem rather ordinary
!You're going to take a hit no matter which of the three you buy. Surely it's better to sweeten the pill by at least buying the car you really want?
I still reckon a low spec 997 is going to be tough to shift without losing your shirt (in the same way that a low spec V8 Vantage would be - hence why so few are spec'd down to the bone).
And the difficulty with a spec'd up Cayman is that they're almost 997 money, which will always get people wondering "what if"...tricky old game, trying to second guess the used car buyer
A 3yr old V8 now is worth, broadly 50k give or take a few depending on the car. In a year of normal driving, I would expect you might lose another 5k-10k. A quick scan of Autotrader would suggest a similar hit on a brand new 997 (presumably if you sold it there would be some tax implication as you're saving the VAT?).
If money's the key factor, I probably wouldn't buy any of these
I still reckon a low spec 997 is going to be tough to shift without losing your shirt (in the same way that a low spec V8 Vantage would be - hence why so few are spec'd down to the bone).
And the difficulty with a spec'd up Cayman is that they're almost 997 money, which will always get people wondering "what if"...tricky old game, trying to second guess the used car buyer
A 3yr old V8 now is worth, broadly 50k give or take a few depending on the car. In a year of normal driving, I would expect you might lose another 5k-10k. A quick scan of Autotrader would suggest a similar hit on a brand new 997 (presumably if you sold it there would be some tax implication as you're saving the VAT?).
If money's the key factor, I probably wouldn't buy any of these
My point is only this. We are in a unique financial phase. We have had 15 years of uninterrupted growth, the latter part of it artificial. There are more high end top quality performance cars available than at any time in history. Production capacity is huge. Aston alone have built a complex in Warwickshire which Goldfinger would be proud of. New models are appearing constantly which must put pressure on values. The 5 Litre XK must have some effect on V8V values.
This can only result in oversupply and discounting. This won't last for ever, but when the situation improves, I don't expect UK to be a significant market and therefore whether we here can afford these things will just be irrelevant. Therefore we should take advantage of it while we can.
I simply don't believe you could not get a discount on a new 997 or a V8V for that matter if you are sufficiently determined and patient. What's the cost of a V8V, around £82.5k, I think, less 17.5% leaves you at £68k. That's an obstacle of £13k from our man's budget.
Just my opinion.
This can only result in oversupply and discounting. This won't last for ever, but when the situation improves, I don't expect UK to be a significant market and therefore whether we here can afford these things will just be irrelevant. Therefore we should take advantage of it while we can.
I simply don't believe you could not get a discount on a new 997 or a V8V for that matter if you are sufficiently determined and patient. What's the cost of a V8V, around £82.5k, I think, less 17.5% leaves you at £68k. That's an obstacle of £13k from our man's budget.
Just my opinion.
If it was just £13K that I had to try to finance then it's a perhaps do-able, but fairly sure I'd need to spec it up to make it sellable later on. That'd certainly add another £3-5K. Getting to spending nearly £70K on a car makes me feel a bit giddy!
Also a new new Aston will depreciate a lot more than the 17.5% I'd save over a year. I'm not saying that I'm expecting no depreciation, but trying to limit the damage to £3-4K over the year. I like to change my cars fairly freqently, which doesn't help the finances. Getting the VAT knocked off a new car means I have to keep it at least 12 months... it stops those from buying a car VAT free and selling on making a profit.
Also a new new Aston will depreciate a lot more than the 17.5% I'd save over a year. I'm not saying that I'm expecting no depreciation, but trying to limit the damage to £3-4K over the year. I like to change my cars fairly freqently, which doesn't help the finances. Getting the VAT knocked off a new car means I have to keep it at least 12 months... it stops those from buying a car VAT free and selling on making a profit.
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