Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?

[Jon39]

dbs2000 said:

Jon39 said:

Radio presenter Iain Dale described his drive from Yorkshire to Tunbridge Wells.
My nearly £100,000 new Audi eTron GT (now sold) took 11 hours for that journey.
It would have been 4 hours in my old Audi diesel.
The public charging system let me down.

I find this one interesting, I think its probably user error / lack of knowledge or the Audi software is trash, but that represents a problem that someone can't just jump in and figure it out. The fast chargers I've found to be pretty decent in the UK, behind France and NL for sure, their motorway systems and services have an abundance but I've not struggled in the UK, even when we've gone to none Tesla stations

I thought you might say that David, because I remember you describing long trouble free EV journeys between the Netherlands and Wales.
I have no direct experience, except for occasionally seeing queues to use public chargers.
Mr Dale's difficulty was not with his car, but the public chargers. There is something about his Yorkshire journey on the internet, but if I remember, the problem was finding working and/or unoccupied chargers. One he tried to use was low power, so he had to wait until his battery had enough to get the car to a faster charger.

His original plan was to stay overnight in East Anglia, but had to abandon that. Having been so upset with that episode he got rid of the EV.

The rate of UK public fast charger 'roll out', seems to be lagging the rate of new EV sales. 1 to 53 last year.
It sounds as though the repair of broken chargers is not very prompt either. Some reported out of action for months.
Probably in the Netherlands, these aspects are handled better.

There were free chargers at some supermarkets, but the increase in electricity costs now results in them not being free anymore.
There is 20% VAT here for public charging, 5% at home. It can now cost more to 'refuel' at a public supercharger, than the equivalent petrol. Hardly an incentive.

[dbs2000]

Jon39 said:

I thought you might say that David, because I remember you describing long trouble free EV journeys between the Netherlands and Wales.
I have no direct experience, except for occasionally seeing queues to use public chargers.
Mr Dale's difficulty was not with his car, but the public chargers. There is something about his Yorkshire journey on the internet, but if I remember, the problem was finding working and/or unoccupied chargers. One he tried to use was low power, so he had to wait until his battery had enough to get the car to a faster charger.

His original plan was to stay overnight in East Anglia, but had to abandon that. Having been so upset with that episode he got rid of the EV.

The rate of UK public fast charger 'roll out', seems to be lagging the rate of new EV sales. 1 to 53 last year.
It sounds as though the repair of broken chargers is not very prompt either. Some reported out of action for months.
Probably in the Netherlands, these aspects are handled better.

We've had maybe 7 long trips in the car now including taking the whole family recently to Les Arcs, circa 1150km each way. The journey out we split, on return we did it in a one'er. Now the caveats. On the way out, Iris booked a nice hotel 2/3 in to the journey next to Tesla SCs, they were 250kw, we let the car go to 100%, I can't remember the exact time it took because we unpacked, sorted the kids, but I do remember between courses going out to move the car so I wasn't hogging the spot (I'd guess 40 mins). On the return journey, the chalet kindly let us charge to 100% @ 5amps (took 38 hours), this gave us a great headstart and meant we were well clear of the local chargers that some would have had to stop at. The very last charge at 22:40 we'd have liked to have missed but we could have planned better earlier in the day (/I could have slowed down a bit too but French motorways allow you to smash the mileage and we deployed our F1 strategy that we could get back charge time by going faster and it would allow the little ones to run around)

The Tesla does have an option to go to other chargers now and you can choose between overnight, mid range (I guess if shopping for a few hours) or rapid chargers, this shows all the third party chargers available. I'm pretty sure ,but can confirm later, that this tells you if the chargers are available to use and not occupied, if the Audi doesn't do that then its poor IMO.

Jon39 said:

There were free chargers at some supermarkets, but the increase in electricity costs now results in them not being free anymore.
There is 20% VAT here for public charging, 5% at home. It can now cost more to 'refuel' at a public supercharger, than the equivalent petrol. Hardly an incentive.

I'd guess our France SC exploits cost more than charging at home and possibly fuel, the invoice hasn't yet landed but I think a 380km top up was around 24 euros. Before the energy crisis, at home, that would have been 9 euros.

EV's don't work for everyone, reps that cover 600+ miles in a day will get pretty ratty stopping that's for sure. The new 500wa/kg batteries could see 600 in real world range soon but time to market and the ability to ramp production bring their own issues.

Sorry, none of this is to do with AM

Edited by dbs2000 on Thursday 20th April 12:54

[Minglar]

Back on topic, sort of, I guess. Some interesting appointments announced yesterday.

https://media.astonmartin.com/aston-martin-strengt...

Best Regards

Minglar

[AstonV]

Interest in EV's in the UK down by 65%.

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2023/04/21/uk-int...

[cardigankid]

The suggestion that EV's are environmentally friendly is complete BS. What about the 45,000 or so child slaves employed mining cobalt in the Congo. Google it, it will turn your stomach. But because we can't see it in front of us, it isn't really happening. We hate Nazis, of course, everybody does, but we would never condone child slavery, would we?

Because of the propensity of industry to Go Woke, the AML management think this stuff is virtuous, and publicizing it does no harm. We are a society of hypocrites, except me of course, and Jon there.

I will never never never buy an electric Aston Martin, and I doubt if many other people will either.

[moktabe]

cardigankid said:

The suggestion that EV's are environmentally friendly is complete BS. What about the 45,000 or so child slaves employed mining cobalt in the Congo. Google it, it will turn your stomach. But because we can't see it in front of us, it isn't really happening. We hate Nazis, of course, everybody does, but we would never condone child slavery, would we?

Because of the propensity of industry to Go Woke, the AML management think this stuff is virtuous, and publicizing it does no harm. We are a society of hypocrites, except me of course, and Jon there.

I will never never never buy an electric Aston Martin, and I doubt if many other people will either.

Personally I'd rather walk than have an EV.

Knockabout car is a Smart, had 2 so far on 4 year PCP deals and when asking about another one last year they told me they only did electric ones now so ended up buying this one at the end of its 4 year term.

What annoys me on PH, as may have been noticed earlier up in the thread, that these who believe that EVs are the be all and end all go on sub-forums for different marques taking great delight in pushing the so called virtues of EVs when having no interest in any specific make the sub-forum covers. My attitude to them may appear rude to some on here but spent my whole working life dealing with such people and being retired doesn't change my outlook on said people.

I take the view that anyone can buy the car they like, be it ICE or EV, that doesn't give them the right to cram it down peoples throats as though it's the best thing since the proverbial sliced bread.

I genuinely hope that AM can ride the incoming storm re EVs although I can't see the cut off date for ICE vehicles being adhered to.

[oilit]

Minglar said:

Back on topic, sort of, I guess. Some interesting appointments announced yesterday.

https://media.astonmartin.com/aston-martin-strengt...

Best Regards

Minglar

Thanks Minglar,

Did you see the trademark filing for Asti Martini ?

Seriously, apart from the guy who helps the ceo around, they sound like solid appointments

[starsky67]

moktabe said:

Personally I'd rather walk than have an EV.

Knockabout car is a Smart, had 2 so far on 4 year PCP deals and when asking about another one last year they told me they only did electric ones now so ended up buying this one at the end of its 4 year term.

What annoys me on PH, as may have been noticed earlier up in the thread, that these who believe that EVs are the be all and end all go on sub-forums for different marques taking great delight in pushing the so called virtues of EVs when having no interest in any specific make the sub-forum covers. My attitude to them may appear rude to some on here but spent my whole working life dealing with such people and being retired doesn't change my outlook on said people.

I take the view that anyone can buy the car they like, be it ICE or EV, that doesn't give them the right to cram it down peoples throats as though it's the best thing since the proverbial sliced bread.

I genuinely hope that AM can ride the incoming storm re EVs although I can't see the cut off date for ICE vehicles being adhered to.

So you’d like to have a discussion about AM’s future in an electric world but only with people who agree with you?

The thing is we shortly won’t have the right to buy any car we like hence the very reasonable debate about whether specialist marques such as AM have a viable future.

[moktabe]

starsky67 said:

moktabe said:

Personally I'd rather walk than have an EV.

Knockabout car is a Smart, had 2 so far on 4 year PCP deals and when asking about another one last year they told me they only did electric ones now so ended up buying this one at the end of its 4 year term.

What annoys me on PH, as may have been noticed earlier up in the thread, that these who believe that EVs are the be all and end all go on sub-forums for different marques taking great delight in pushing the so called virtues of EVs when having no interest in any specific make the sub-forum covers. My attitude to them may appear rude to some on here but spent my whole working life dealing with such people and being retired doesn't change my outlook on said people.

I take the view that anyone can buy the car they like, be it ICE or EV, that doesn't give them the right to cram it down peoples throats as though it's the best thing since the proverbial sliced bread.

I genuinely hope that AM can ride the incoming storm re EVs although I can't see the cut off date for ICE vehicles being adhered to.

So you’d like to have a discussion about AM’s future in an electric world but only with people who agree with you?

The thing is we shortly won’t have the right to buy any car we like hence the very reasonable debate about whether specialist marques such as AM have a viable future.

Well well, here comes another one...only to be expected I suppose.

Doing your usual stuff and twisting what someone has said to suit your agenda, I haven't said I have an interest or want a discussion on the future of AM and EVs. I was agreeing with the post prior to mine re EVs.

Absolutely delighted you turned up here, exactly proves the point I was making.

You arrogantly assume that everyone looks to buy a new vehicle...they don't.

[Hedged]

Let us see how Chilean President Boric -- an avowed climate, mining pollution, and indigenous peoples aware leader -- deals with his planned socialization of the world's largest lithium deposits.
Perhaps he can address what appear to be legitimate & complex issues without plunging his country into another zoo animal supermarket like Venezuela. Regardless, and if the plan passes congress, the EV industry will likely face another challenging conversation.

[Jon39]

AstonV said:

Interest in EV's in the UK down by 65%.

There was widespread media coverage in the UK, describing the long queues at some public chargers, that occurred on the Tuesday after Chistmas Day.
Even lines of Teslas having to wait for hours, at their own dedicated charging stations.

Perhaps that coverage made prospective buyers think more thoroughly, about various aspects of going electric, which they were perhaps unaware of.

moktabe said:

What annoys me on PH, as may have been noticed earlier up in the thread, that these who believe that EVs are the be all and end all go on sub-forums for different marques taking great delight in pushing the so called virtues of EVs when having no interest in any specific make the sub-forum covers.

That is interesting. I did wonder.

We certainly had lectures from many EV evangelists here, but after a while, they all suddenly disappeared.
I thought they might have gone to the pub for talks about kilowatts; amps; 0 to 60 in 2 seconds; high speed charging for 6 pence and a
500 mile range.

But no. So they went away, to provide sermons to another group of unsuspecting IC sports car enthusiasts. Well, well.

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 21st April 20:47

[moktabe]

Like having Bible Bashers camped out on your doorstep.


Edited to be less specific before the mods have a hissy

Edited by moktabe on Friday 21st April 20:50

[Minglar]

oilit said:

Minglar said:

Back on topic, sort of, I guess. Some interesting appointments announced yesterday.

https://media.astonmartin.com/aston-martin-strengt...

Best Regards

Minglar

Thanks Minglar,

Did you see the trademark filing for Asti Martini ?

Seriously, apart from the guy who helps the ceo around, they sound like solid appointments

Asti Martini…………is that the new ultra ultra luxury fizz for wealthy Charlottes who want an AM themed bottomless brunch on a Friday?!


As you say though, I would agree. Some good appointments with the relevant experience and nous to take on the EV challenge.

As an aside, with regards to some of the comments that have been posted on this thread over the last few days, this corner of PH specifically relates to AM. I know this thread is related to the future and EVs etc, but it does amaze me how polarising this topic is. It seems to attract people who clearly have no specific interest in Aston Martin, probably don’t own one and possibly never will. Funnily enough many of them seem to post on multiple threads across all of PH everyday too. Can you set up an alert when a topic appears which may pique your interest? And before I get my throat ripped out, I know it’s a public forum, it’s a free world…..blah blah blah.


Best Regards

Minglar

[tamore]

AM will have to develop BEVs very soon, or it won't be around in the late 20s and certainly 30s

[Piston Ted]

I’ve been giving some thought to the EVangelist types on PistonHeads. The same six or so usernames appear time and time again. Especially on the main articles they are always commenting and replying almost instantly with various graphs and ‘facts’ and saying that they are somehow connected to the industry etc. It got me thinking about the UK governments ‘nudge’ unit, perhaps some of these frequent users happen to be a part of that department seeing as though they are always online . . . Possibly a bit conspiracy theorist/tin foil hat of me. It’s interesting though that these same users seem utterly delighted with the ban on the internal combustion engine and are completely adamant that synthetic E fuel will never ever be possible which seems at odds with the vast majority of other users of this site. Seems strange that these EVangelist types would come on this website so regularly.

[moktabe]

Piston Ted said:

I’ve been giving some thought to the EVangelist types on PistonHeads. The same six or so usernames appear time and time again. Especially on the main articles they are always commenting and replying almost instantly with various graphs and ‘facts’ and saying that they are somehow connected to the industry etc. It got me thinking about the UK governments ‘nudge’ unit, perhaps some of these frequent users happen to be a part of that department seeing as though they are always online . . . Possibly a bit conspiracy theorist/tin foil hat of me. It’s interesting though that these same users seem utterly delighted with the ban on the internal combustion engine and are completely adamant that synthetic E fuel will never ever be possible which seems at odds with the vast majority of other users of this site. Seems strange that these EVangelist types would come on this website so regularly.

Funnily if you look at the post count of those six or so the number related to the time on PH speaks volumes.

It's either that or they've forgotten where their front door is and stare longingly out of the window at their EV.

[quench]

Not Aston Martin related, I know, but here is yet another example of the scale of EVangelism being rammed down taxpayer throats:

From today's National Post (Canadian newspaper) -

"After weeks of both the Ontario and federal governments sidestepping questions about how much they paid Volkswagen to open a battery factory in St. Thomas, Ont., the final figure was just obtained by Bloomberg News: The German carmaker will be getting $13 billion in grants and subsidies over the next 10 years.

It is, quite simply, the largest single payout of corporate welfare since the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad.

The next leading contender would be Bombardier, which received about $4 billion in government subsidies between 1966 and 2017. But the Montreal-based aerospace firm racked up the total through dozens of tax credits, interest-free loans and subsidies spread out over five decades.

Volkswagen will not only receive a payout equivalent to as much as triple Bombardier’s lifetime total, but it will receive it in one go."

Here's an idea: why not let the market decide what sort of cars we will drive, who will make them, and where they will be made? But no, it's all ideologically/politically driven, and colossal amounts of taxpayer money spent in a frantic attempt to make sure it doesn't fail, proving that the ideology is "right".

When people complain that capitalism is the root of all evil, they haven't a clue: we don't live in a capitalist world any more.

[Jon39]

quench said:

From today's National Post (Canadian newspaper) -

"After weeks of both the Ontario and federal governments sidestepping questions about how much they paid Volkswagen to open a battery factory in St. Thomas, Ont., the final figure was just obtained by Bloomberg News: The German carmaker will be getting $13 billion in grants and subsidies over the next 10 years.

It is, quite simply, the largest single payout of corporate welfare since the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railroad. ...

... When people complain that capitalism is the root of all evil, they haven't a clue: we don't live in a capitalist world any more.

I have wondered about this same activity in the UK, but not on the scale that you have described.
VW must have had a chuckle, when they secured that deal.

Private sector businesses presumably approach the government and say, we need a grant (handout) for a new UK factory, but we have already had an offer to build it in XYZ country.

I think Aston Martin might have done that with their Welsh factory, but perhaps 'small beer' compared to others.

[DMZ]

As a business, you’d be pretty dumb to not get involved in electrification given all the government riches thrown at it. It’s the Biden administration that is driving the subsidies war with the ironically named Inflation Reduction Act. Which is in turn a reaction to China’s subsidies to industry. There’s obviously a lot of talk about investment going to North America now instead of to Europe. And clearly not just talk given that Canadian announcement.

I’m sure LS is racking his brain trying to find an angle.

[Minglar]

DMZ said:

As a business, you’d be pretty dumb to not get involved in electrification given all the government riches thrown at it. It’s the Biden administration that is driving the subsidies war with the ironically named Inflation Reduction Act. Which is in turn a reaction to China’s subsidies to industry. There’s obviously a lot of talk about investment going to North America now instead of to Europe. And clearly not just talk given that Canadian announcement.

I’m sure LS is racking his brain trying to find an angle.

Here’s an angle for you. Perhaps LS should approach the Canadian government and propose that AML build their own battery plant there? It’s close to home for him and it will solve all of his problems. Get the grant, clear the AML debt, share price will rocket, cash out to Geely or any other large automotive firm that will no doubt want to invest when it’s much more expensive to do so. Er, sorry Justin, but we have changed our mind on the plant now, as EVs aren’t really the future.

I’ll get my coat

Best Regards

Minglar