DB9 engine ticking noise - help please
Discussion
yeti said:
Neil1300R said:
Have you considered taking it to an Aston Martin dealer - you know the people that are trained to work on Astons? I'm sure they'll help identify ticking noises
Oily rags... Actually I can't be bothered anymore. That poor, poor car.Breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth. Repeat several times.
Feeling better?
Lunablack said:
George29 said:
My Zeus book disagrees and shows it as something that goes in a hole:
I'm glad that you have a Zeus book to describe putting a shaft in a hole..
Otherwise how would you ever figure it out
beat me to itI'm also curious why George's Zeus books talks about Transition Tits?
Aston Annie said:
yeti said:
Neil1300R said:
Have you considered taking it to an Aston Martin dealer - you know the people that are trained to work on Astons? I'm sure they'll help identify ticking noises
Oily rags... Actually I can't be bothered anymore. That poor, poor car.Breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth. Repeat several times.
Feeling better?
Jockman said:
I would concur, however, that I would not be willing to purchase this car once it is finished 
The question is..... Will it ever be finished..?? I have a feeling, that once the tick has been cured, a squeak may develop, that will be fixed only to be replaced by some sort of whistling noise that only occurs when turning left on a wet road.... Etc etc
Lunablack said:
The question is..... Will it ever be finished..??
I have a feeling, that once the tick has been cured, a squeak may develop, that will be fixed only to be replaced by some sort of whistling noise that only occurs when turning left on a wet road.... Etc etc
Can you make a video to show how to do a full engine rebuild for Maverick? I have a feeling, that once the tick has been cured, a squeak may develop, that will be fixed only to be replaced by some sort of whistling noise that only occurs when turning left on a wet road.... Etc etc
Hello Boys, thanks for your input, 7 pages of posts and we can't agree if its a shaft or a tube ....... 
Received this PM from a fellow PH'er who tells me he can't be ar5ed to post anymore .......
Hello Mav
Regarding you thoughts on the tick coming from an exhaust leak.
Don’t forget that on a four stroke engine an exhaust leak close to the head may only tick at half the engine rev frequency i.e. once every other revolution, but depending on different exhaust designs anything is possible.
An exhaust tick will sometimes disappear when decelerating and increase when accelerating. So is the noise there on overrun?
To help isolate an exhaust leak noise, disconnect one injector at a time and see if the noise changes or disappears with that specific cylinder disabled.
But you are saying it ticks at about 1/6th engine rev frequency. Very strange, I will put my thinking cap on, that’s if I can find it
In the past I have found barely audible exhaust leaks with a smoke machine.
Regards
C
Hello C , thanks for that. I'm always of the opinon that, "cheapest first", to pull the injectors one at a time is going to be cheaper than changing all the gaskets on the exhaust system, I thought I could disconnect the plugs first, but with no fuel injected into the cyd, then there should be less pressure and thus be able to spot the noise/tick easier.
C, thanks for th input and the idea, you know who you are
Received this PM from a fellow PH'er who tells me he can't be ar5ed to post anymore .......
Hello Mav
Regarding you thoughts on the tick coming from an exhaust leak.
Don’t forget that on a four stroke engine an exhaust leak close to the head may only tick at half the engine rev frequency i.e. once every other revolution, but depending on different exhaust designs anything is possible.
An exhaust tick will sometimes disappear when decelerating and increase when accelerating. So is the noise there on overrun?
To help isolate an exhaust leak noise, disconnect one injector at a time and see if the noise changes or disappears with that specific cylinder disabled.
But you are saying it ticks at about 1/6th engine rev frequency. Very strange, I will put my thinking cap on, that’s if I can find it
In the past I have found barely audible exhaust leaks with a smoke machine.
Regards
C
Hello C
, thanks for that. I'm always of the opinon that, "cheapest first", to pull the injectors one at a time is going to be cheaper than changing all the gaskets on the exhaust system, I thought I could disconnect the plugs first, but with no fuel injected into the cyd, then there should be less pressure and thus be able to spot the noise/tick easier.C, thanks for th input and the idea, you know who you are
A leaking exhaust manifold should be easy to pick up by ear as it will be most prominent down the sides of the engine. How localised is the tick?
Is it back where the lash tick was originally or is this the second tick you mentioned shortly afterwards?
It could still be a Valve Lash issue.
It has been found that on occasion replacing the lashes cures the noise, but it then slowly returns within approx 2 months (this timeline fits well here)
The root cause might not be the actual lashes themselves but the bores in which they are seated.
The lashes can obviously rotate within the bores and thus create a possible lateral wear within the bores.
As time goes on, more and more info is collected from various sources, but mostly through individuals such as yourself who actively try to cure common problems that seem to have an elusive cause.
The biggest problem with the V12 engines are the inlet manifolds being where they are! these create a huge obstruction when fault finding using conventional tried and tested methods. Such as removing the load of a particular piston by removing the plug and also pressure testing individual cylinders.
Measurement of the old Vs new lashes is paramount to be sure there was a fault to start with, and also measure the diameters of each lash bore to ascertain if any wear here has occurred.
Fitting new lashes to a worn bore will fix the noise until the new lash or bore wears accordingly to the new or worn part/surfaces.
Is it back where the lash tick was originally or is this the second tick you mentioned shortly afterwards?
It could still be a Valve Lash issue.
It has been found that on occasion replacing the lashes cures the noise, but it then slowly returns within approx 2 months (this timeline fits well here)
The root cause might not be the actual lashes themselves but the bores in which they are seated.
The lashes can obviously rotate within the bores and thus create a possible lateral wear within the bores.
As time goes on, more and more info is collected from various sources, but mostly through individuals such as yourself who actively try to cure common problems that seem to have an elusive cause.
The biggest problem with the V12 engines are the inlet manifolds being where they are! these create a huge obstruction when fault finding using conventional tried and tested methods. Such as removing the load of a particular piston by removing the plug and also pressure testing individual cylinders.
Measurement of the old Vs new lashes is paramount to be sure there was a fault to start with, and also measure the diameters of each lash bore to ascertain if any wear here has occurred.
Fitting new lashes to a worn bore will fix the noise until the new lash or bore wears accordingly to the new or worn part/surfaces.
GTDB7 ...... where have you been .....? 
Your post was not what I wanted to hear, but hear it I did.
I can understand that in changing the lashes etc, leaving the original socket that it goes in, will just result in the problem coming back. The engine tick only happened within my ownership and it was sorted in about 3000 miles (or maybe even less). Since changing the lashes and Rockers, the engine tick competely went, and has now done about 5000 miles since being changed and the engine tick has not come back at all .... at all ....., indeed I am pretty pleased with the engine noise, its justs the noise of mechanical engine whirring
When the lashes were changed the noise went immediately, but when the whole car warmed up, another tick appeared from below the car. It sounds like it comes from the tube or shaft or whatever you want to call it (that long pipe bit between the gearbox and the engine)
I have looked at length at the tube/shaft/pipe thingy and spent a while looking at the original on the bench, and I cannot see where a noise would come from. But confusion is coming from the 12 revolutions per second and only 2 ticks per second. Also when its cold, there is no tick, as it warms up it appears. But then to add confusion
sometimes there is no tick at all when warm.
A problem that we are running against is that noise travels really well on metallic objects and hence the difficulty in accurately diagnostics.
You are right about the inlet manifolds though, it does make it difficult to pull plugs whilst trying to run the engine. Do you think the Mr C's idea of pulling an injector would help? Its the same Mr C that you know so well .....
Your post was not what I wanted to hear, but hear it I did.
I can understand that in changing the lashes etc, leaving the original socket that it goes in, will just result in the problem coming back. The engine tick only happened within my ownership and it was sorted in about 3000 miles (or maybe even less). Since changing the lashes and Rockers, the engine tick competely went, and has now done about 5000 miles since being changed and the engine tick has not come back at all .... at all ....., indeed I am pretty pleased with the engine noise, its justs the noise of mechanical engine whirring
When the lashes were changed the noise went immediately, but when the whole car warmed up, another tick appeared from below the car. It sounds like it comes from the tube or shaft or whatever you want to call it (that long pipe bit between the gearbox and the engine)
I have looked at length at the tube/shaft/pipe thingy and spent a while looking at the original on the bench, and I cannot see where a noise would come from. But confusion is coming from the 12 revolutions per second and only 2 ticks per second. Also when its cold, there is no tick, as it warms up it appears. But then to add confusion
sometimes there is no tick at all when warm.A problem that we are running against is that noise travels really well on metallic objects and hence the difficulty in accurately diagnostics.
You are right about the inlet manifolds though, it does make it difficult to pull plugs whilst trying to run the engine. Do you think the Mr C's idea of pulling an injector would help? Its the same Mr C that you know so well .....
The injector test is a simple one and can be done with ease, so it's worth while doing just to tick it off the list.
I would run the car or maybe go for a drive to put it through a realistic warm up and drive cycle.
Then without switching off.. and careful of heat, unplug each injector in turn, and leave it out for say 30 - 60 seconds. Whilst the unplugged cylinders will still act as an air pump, the lack of heat from no combustion in the cylinder may highlight or change the tick.
Maybe you could visit a garage with a ramp and offer say £20 to pop it on the ramp for 10 minutes whilst you have a good probe around the engine with an electronic stephoscope.
If you can narrow down the area and location it then gives more chance to focus our thoughts.
Some cars do have noises that will NEVER go away no matter what you change or do.
From what I can gather if the tick is at a much reduced frequency to the engine RPM, then it has to be either valve train, Cam chains, Gearbox related.
Or possible a vacuum or other such engine control system part.
Do you have access to an endoscope?
I have chatted with Mr C recently and I understand testing has begun on the old lashes.
I'll PM you with some preliminary findings on those of which I think is of some interest.
I would run the car or maybe go for a drive to put it through a realistic warm up and drive cycle.
Then without switching off.. and careful of heat, unplug each injector in turn, and leave it out for say 30 - 60 seconds. Whilst the unplugged cylinders will still act as an air pump, the lack of heat from no combustion in the cylinder may highlight or change the tick.
Maybe you could visit a garage with a ramp and offer say £20 to pop it on the ramp for 10 minutes whilst you have a good probe around the engine with an electronic stephoscope.
If you can narrow down the area and location it then gives more chance to focus our thoughts.
Some cars do have noises that will NEVER go away no matter what you change or do.
From what I can gather if the tick is at a much reduced frequency to the engine RPM, then it has to be either valve train, Cam chains, Gearbox related.
Or possible a vacuum or other such engine control system part.
Do you have access to an endoscope?
I have chatted with Mr C recently and I understand testing has begun on the old lashes.
I'll PM you with some preliminary findings on those of which I think is of some interest.
GTDB7 said:
The injector test is a simple one and can be done with ease, so it's worth while doing just to tick it off the list.
I thought it looked difficult to do, I’ll give it a go and tick it off list. GTDB7 said:
good probe around the engine with an electronic stephoscope.
If you can narrow down the area and location it then gives more chance to focus our thoughts
I have a video edoscope now and a metal stethoscope. The problem is that metallic things have an uncanny knack of transmitting noise. If you can narrow down the area and location it then gives more chance to focus our thoughts
I spent about 30 minutes with the stethoscope yesterday, and the noise is coming from all over the place.
The coolant thermostat sounds like it has a proper tick in it, but there are no moving parts in it, so noise is being transmitted. There is also the alternator, this has a tick in it, but it obviously does not because it can’t, again noise transmission. 
When I stand by the side of the car (either side) you can hear a clear tick, when you go above the engine you cannot here it so well, the top of the engine sounds great. I have put the stethoscope on the exhaust manifolds (actually the heat shields) and there does appear to be a tick. But then there is with the thermostat and alternator.
When the engine is cold, there is no noise, when warmed up there is a noise I said 2 ticks per second, it could be as many as 3 ticks per second, but no more. Its really difficult to count the ticks.
I could not believe that the crank was turning at 12rps, until I watched it and listened to the tick at the same time, they are defo running at different speeds.
GTDB7 said:
Some cars do have noises that will NEVER go away no matter what you change or do.
I didn’t want to read that ….. GTDB7 said:
From what I can gather if the tick is at a much reduced frequency to the engine RPM, then it has to be either valve train, Cam chains, Gearbox related.
or that …… GTDB7 said:
If you can narrow down the area and location it then gives more chance to focus our thoughts.
I am rather very hopeful about the exhaust issue as a guess. 
The tick is quite a pronounced tick, and as such, if there was something snagging or hitting on something, if the engine is turning at 12 times per second and then much faster, then something, “rubbing”, wouldn’t last very long, let-alone 3000 miles at autobahn speeds and a few thousand miles of normal driving.My experience of metallic failure is that it does not last long before it fails.
Couple this with the fact the engine runs like a turbine, full power, no drop off, drives a dream, driving mile after mile …….
An exhaust leakage would last forever, give no power drop off, would allow the engine to run smooth and would get slightly worse as time went on.
I think I will order all the manifold gaskets and exhaust gaskets, nuts a bolts and get them changed. I’m just about to take the old girl on a run to France, it would be nice to get the manifolds perfectly secure and then test it on a 1500 mile run at a stead 129kmh .....
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