Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
This is a puzzle.
Bedfordshire Fire & Rescue Service said, "The vehicle initially involved in the [Luton Airport car park] fire was diesel, and not a hybrid or electric car."
Google search:
Can spilt diesel fuel easily ignite?
'Diesel fuel has a much higher vapor point, so there are normally no vapors present at room temperature above a container of liquid fuel. You have to heat it, spray it, or wick it to get enough vapors to light it. This is why it normally won't light even with a blowtorch.'
It was reported, that the initial fire was sudden and instantly intense.
Fire brigades must know that diesel fuel is less flammable than petrol.
Whether we'll know exactly or not Jon that remains to be seen.
Car fires can start through oil leaking onto a manifold or further back on the exhaust, if its been going a while. (Matt Armstrong had this on his Lambo after spilling a bit of oil in a recent video). I guess if its not picked up on or a poorly maintained vehicle, then it could have been a problem that's been brewing for a long time.
Car fires can start through oil leaking onto a manifold or further back on the exhaust, if its been going a while. (Matt Armstrong had this on his Lambo after spilling a bit of oil in a recent video). I guess if its not picked up on or a poorly maintained vehicle, then it could have been a problem that's been brewing for a long time.
Agent57 said:
Well, if we're speculating: An electrical fire under the bonnet that spread?
It seems an immediate intensity of fire, was reported by witnesses who saw the initial vehicle catch fire.
Would that be of any significance?
There is a YouTube video of a council type refuse truck catching fire in Weybridge, Surrey, town centre.
The fire burnt fairly slowly for about 5 minutes.
Judging by the location of the flames, it probably was associated with the diesel engine of the vehicle.
A local person did try using a fire extinguisher, but I suppose foam and not water might have been needed.
When the fire engine arrived, everything became a bit Fred Karno.
One of the firemen attempted to dig soil out of an under road fire hydrant.
The fire eventually engulfed the refuse truck.
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 19th October 15:05
AdamV12V said:
Worth a watch, if not directly AM related.
Some very interesting stats and trends revealed...
Interesting article. The overriding factor in this for me came towards the end where research showed people were willing to accept less from their EV or ICE and are prepared to pay more for that so called privilege .... to me this is madness. Why would you want to accept less and pay more for it? Even the Main dealer owner stated 'dont get rid of your ICE just yet.Some very interesting stats and trends revealed...
Edited by BiggaJ on Monday 23 October 13:58
BiggaJ said:
Interesting article. The overriding factor in this for me came towards the end where research showed people were willing to accept less from their EV or ICE and are prepared to pay more for that so called privilege .... to me this is madness. Why would you want to accept less and pay more for it? Even the Main dealer owner stated 'dont get rid of your ICE just yet.
People SAY they are willing to accept less when asked (it seems to be fashionable to self-flagellate these days, whether it be on the topic of energy consumption/emissions, the colour of your skin, your 'privilege' etc). But is that really borne out by the purchase data? You can study what people say they are going to do all you want, but what really matters is what they actually do.Edited by BiggaJ on Monday 23 October 13:58
AdamV12V said:
Worth a watch, if not directly AM related.
Some very interesting stats and trends revealed...
My electric bill has skyrocketed in the last few years. This last summer I used my home AC as little as possible, but bills are higher than they were only a few years ago using the AC all summer long. This must to be the case for most people. Why would anyone add an electric vehicle which would only add to that cost. Some of my vehicles are over 20 years old, low mileage and run like new. How will the batteries of a 20 year old EV stand up. They may still hold a charge but it will not hold the same charge as new. Some very interesting stats and trends revealed...
quench said:
People SAY they are willing to accept less when asked (it seems to be fashionable to self-flagellate these days, whether it be on the topic of energy consumption/emissions, the colour of your skin, your 'privilege' etc). But is that really borne out by the purchase data? You can study what people say they are going to do all you want, but what really matters is what they actually do.
Yes; if you interview people for local TV about speed limits they will say they're a great idea. Then off camera they break them.There are of course some people who will pay more to virtue signal - the SQ (smug quotient). Others believe they're actually 'fighting climate change'.
AstonV said:
My electric bill has skyrocketed in the last few years. This last summer I used my home AC as little as possible, but bills are higher than they were only a few years ago using the AC all summer long. This must to be the case for most people. Why would anyone add an electric vehicle which would only add to that cost.
Well, they're not paying for petrol or diesel. Mind you they'll be paying VED after 1 April 2025, which of course means they'll be fighting climate change even better... 
AstonV said:
My electric bill has skyrocketed in the last few years. This last summer I used my home AC as little as possible, but bills are higher than they were only a few years ago using the AC all summer long. This must to be the case for most people. Why would anyone add an electric vehicle which would only add to that cost. Some of my vehicles are over 20 years old, low mileage and run like new. How will the batteries of a 20 year old EV stand up. They may still hold a charge but it will not hold the same charge as new.
I am with you about making cars last. A generation or so ago, you knew when a car was 20 years old. Various parts were by then feeling 'loose', but many cared for cars now, built 20 years ago, do still run like new. My daily, bought when it was 3 years old, was not intentionally going to be kept for a long time, but has been so reliable, that at age 23 years is still a joy to drive every day and feels exactly the same as when new.
Perhaps I should feel green and net-zero, because I have not required 6 extra new cars to be built during those 23 years.
EV makers seem to tell us that batteries will last 200,000 miles. As hardly anyone keeps a car for 200,000 miles, that appears to be the ultimate reassurance to every EV buyer.
I thought the number of cycles of recharging, was something more relevant to battery life, than the total vehicle mileage, but as we have heard about hybrid battery vehicles written-off after just 8 years, 200,000 miles is certainly no guarantee.
I don't have any air conditioning, so another 'green' point for me, but must admit to using heating during the winter.
Seem to remember from science lessons, that it takes more energy to cool air by 1°C, than heat air by 1°C.
I have never yet seen an explanation about the meaning of 'net-zero'. Can anyone explain ?
I think the net part means, if someone is not a full 'green', they can just give money to someone who is a minus 'green' and purchase a certificate stating they are now a full 'green'. Job done and planet saved !
Edited by Dewi 2 on Monday 23 October 22:14
It appears that an electric DBX (or other SUV), will be the first EV Aston Martin, launched in late 2025.
An announcement about Aston Martin EVs.
The government has awarded almost £9m to Aston Martin to support the luxury carmaker in further developing its electric vehicle (EV) technology, Business and Trade Secretary Kemi Badenoch confirmed during a visit to the firm's Warwickshire headquarters on Friday.
Awarded through the Advanced Propulsion Centre (APC) earlier this month, the funding is expected to support more than 2,500 local jobs and help Aston Martin develop enhanced vehicle light weighting, digital toolchains and electrification training as it ramps up its EV ambitions.
Aston Martin is aiming to deliver its first EVs from late 2025, beginning with the launch of an electric SUV followed by a high-speed GT model by the end of the decade, in partnership with American EV producer Lucid.
Slightly off-topic, but it appears some are wondering if Tesla can survive in the electric vehicle era
https://fortune.com/2023/10/19/tesla-earnings-thir...
https://fortune.com/2023/10/19/tesla-earnings-thir...
Since this topic began, we have heard about various difficulties involving EV ownership.
amongst the early concerns were; "They cost more than ICs" and "I am going on a long journey and have range anxiety".
A more recent one, is 'charging anxiety' and Moto service areas employing security guards to monitor their charging facilities.
The latest issue appears to involve very high insurance costs.
.........................................................................
Extract.
Why so much more expensive?
Batteries are a big reason for this. Often located at the bottom of the car, they can be damaged if you go too fast over a speed bump or too hard off a curb.
Damaged batteries are hard to repair and usually need to be replaced. Typically the most expensive part of the vehicle, they can cost anything from £14,200 to £29,500.
Another issue is the weight of electric cars, which are 300 to 500 kilograms heavier than petrol or diesel equivalents. More weight means more force, which means more damage in a crash.
Electric cars also have a higher chance of losing control because they produce instant torque (power to the wheel axles). If a driver pushes too hard on the accelerator and then lifts their foot off, they can lose control.
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
https://archive.li/IKZEF
(Might be a pause before opening.)
Edited by Jon39 on Friday 10th November 09:40
Jon39 said:
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
https://archive.li/IKZEF
Axa Germany confirmed that electric vehicles are not subject to more crashes compared to ICE cars, Axa Switzerland had to remove the press release which was quoting the 50% figure and issued an apology.
Edited by Swissdriver on Sunday 12th November 09:33
Swissdriver said:
Jon39 said:
“This high torque can result in unwanted, jerky acceleration,” Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland said. A study by the insurer last year suggested that electric vehicles crashed 50 per cent more often than petrol or diesel ones because of what it called “overtapping”.
https://archive.li/IKZEF
Axa Germany confirmed that electric vehicles are not subject to more crashes compared to ICE cars, Axa Switzerland had to remove the press release which was quoting the 50% figure and issued an apology.
Oh dear. It looks as though The Times newspaper were caught out, by supposedly quoting someone called, 'Michael Pfaffli from Axa Switzerland'.
Did the rest of the article bear any resemblance to the truth ?
Certainly in the UK, insurance premiums for EVs have increased enormously, so that part appears correct.
Have Axa Switzerland gone rogue? Telling lies about their own data, then staging a dodgy theatrical performance.
Trying to trash their image of (presumably) upstanding professional respectability.
Why would an insurance company become involved in the disgraceful and misleading stunt that you have described ?
For Jeremy Clarkson and his Top Gear TV pals, it would be expected, but surely not an insurance company.
I see that Michael Pfaffli shows his promotion in 2021 to, Stiftungsratspräsident AXA Switzerland, on Linkedin. Did he remain in that job ?
mac_doctor said:
Thanks.
To be fair, the Tesla stunt involving AXA Switzerland, was not mentioned in The Times article.
That referred to the instant torque characteristic which EVs have, which if used carelessly, has resulting in some EV crashes.
The quote publishe was supposedly from the CEO of AXA Switzerland.
Do you think such incidents are perhaps similar to the inexperienced supercar drivers, who feature on YouTube?
It is always the same. Accelerate, rear breaks away, catch the first slide, rear end whips back which the driver fails to anticipate, so loses control of the second slide.
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