Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
Jon39 said:
Thank you for your interesting comments, David.
I hear that your country has a new Prime Minister.
Seems that the EU might be a touch worried.
Looking at his appearance, I was reminded of someone. -
Mr Verstappen might have considerable support. Perhaps he should have stood for election.
I believe the free roadtax on EVs expires next year so that'll really test the water for the Netherlands appetite. My gut feeling is it won't matter, the uptake here is pretty large and with fuel at 2e / litre I can see EVs keeping and increasing market share.
As for AM over here, I saw a DB11 yesterday, thats the first Aston I've seen in the wild in 6 months (other than at a meetup) so I don't think our market matters to AM all that much.
dbs2000 said:
Jon39 said:
Thank you for your interesting comments, David.
I hear that your country has a new Prime Minister.
Seems that the EU might be a touch worried.
Looking at his appearance, I was reminded of someone. -
Mr Verstappen might have considerable support. Perhaps he should have stood for election.
I believe the free roadtax on EVs expires next year so that'll really test the water for the Netherlands appetite. My gut feeling is it won't matter, the uptake here is pretty large and with fuel at 2e / litre I can see EVs keeping and increasing market share.
As for AM over here, I saw a DB11 yesterday, thats the first Aston I've seen in the wild in 6 months (other than at a meetup) so I don't think our market matters to AM all that much.
It’s funny how those in the UK that voted for it still cling to the idea that there remain a significant number in Europe who feel the same way, they all see the disaster that it has been and the irrecoverable damage it is doing to the UK. Even Farage admits it has failed, though it seems it will take the crazier bits of the Tory party and Farage’s more blinkered acolytes in their silos significantly longer to see, I’d say it will be when the evidence of terminal economic decline (and the associated social decline) becomes incontrovertible. Probably another 10 years. Such a shame for the young people of the UK
There’s no talk of exit among any of Europes right wingers anymore, including the Dutch. This helps explain why, for those who need further explanation.
https://www.afr.com/world/europe/europe-s-far-righ...
for fun, this is worth a watch, this is how it was ‘supposed’ to be….
https://youtu.be/2zKJDs-ftDQ?si=1uVbM8b4Nm4BgHdS
Agreed the DB11 is a great car
, and also agreed that the leap from full ICE to full EV is being driven too quickly by some nations. For a great many around the world, decent hybrids remain an optimum solution.Edited by Calinours on Friday 1st December 10:31
Jon39 said:
This might be the video that you were referring to.
It includes the owner of a US Mercedes-Benz dealer, who possibly revealed more than M-B might have wanted.
Interesting, but it all confirms the opinions which have been expressed on this topic for some time.
In the UK we have recently heard about huge increases in EV insurance premiums. One more thing adding to a number of drawbacks.
https://youtu.be/cZlsZwcIgpc?si=XC1sXG1lsnlg7Hrg
Calinours said:
It’s funny how those in the UK that voted for it still cling to the idea that there remain a significant number in Europe who feel the same way, they all see the disaster that it has been and the irrecoverable damage it is doing to the UK. Even Farage admits it has failed, though it seems it will take the crazier bits of the Tory party and Farage’s more blinkered acolytes in their silos significantly longer to see, I’d say it will be when the evidence of terminal economic decline (and the associated social decline) becomes incontrovertible. Probably another 10 years. Such a shame for the young people of the UK
I would say the UK is f
ked whether in or out of the EU. Every man for himself.
Simpo Two said:
I would say the UK is spooked whether in or out of the EU. Every man for himself.
One aspect that has always puzzled me, as more and more countries joined the EU, is the huge disparity of economies.
UK, Germany and France, then Greece for example, all using the same currency (not UK) and identical monetary policy.
A mystery how that can work in the long run. Remember when the UK had its currency linked to the Euro. Someone thought imaginary price movement limits, could somehow be applied to a freely traded currency. The inevitable of course happened.
Then it became more bizarre, when Gernany and France began lending huge Euro sums to the small economy nations.
Perhaps no surprise that Greece fell behind with the repayment schedule, but they must have enjoyed spending while it lasted.
Greece can hardly be repossessed, but that debt seemed to be brushed under the carpet. We have never heard whether the lenders in the northern countries, ever got any of their money back.
Do you remember that funny tale, about sales of Porsche Cayannes in Greece? The per capita number of Cayennes in the City of Larissa, being twice that of Cayennes in the OECD countries. They might not have been paid for, by a bumper crop of melons.
Jon39 said:
One aspect that has always puzzled me, as more and more countries joined the EU, is the huge disparity of economies.
UK, Germany and France, then Greece for example, all using the same currency (not UK) and identical monetary policy.
A mystery how that can work in the long run. Remember when the UK had its currency linked to the Euro. Someone thought imaginary price movement limits, could somehow be applied to a freely traded currency. The inevitable of course happened.
Then it became more bizarre, when Gernany and France began lending huge Euro sums to the small economy nations.
Perhaps no surprise that Greece fell behind with the repayment schedule, but they must have enjoyed spending while it lasted.
Greece can hardly be repossessed, but that debt seemed to be brushed under the carpet. We have never heard whether the lenders in the northern countries, ever got any of their money back.
Do you remember that funny tale, about sales of Porsche Cayannes in Greece? The per capita number of Cayennes in the City of Larissa, being twice that of Cayennes in the OECD countries. They might not have been paid for, by a bumper crop of melons.
Some got stupid and a little too greedy.
https://news.yahoo.com/california-man-spent-5m-cov...
https://people.com/human-interest/florida-man-got-...
AstonV said:
Some got stupid and a little too greedy.
Well, well. At least they could have chosen Aston Martins, to help sales and revenue.
It has been reported that exactly the same thing happened here in the UK. I have not heard about anyone being jailed though.
Light touch here now. The jails are apparently full, so "Dont do it again" seems to often be the sentence, unless it involves theft in a shop, when to shorten the sequence, the Police no longer even attend the crime scene.
During the pandemic many people and businesses were in genuine need of help, so such a shame that criminals take advantage of such situations.
Is the Lucid agreement a masterstroke for Aston Martin ?
Most of the major car manufacturers have reportedly spent billions to develop ranges of battery cars.
It is possible now, that much of that money might have been wasted.
For Aston Martin to use bought-in technology, must be a lower cost and lower risk way of creating a new EV.
Some manufacturers including Volkswagen, Ford, GM, have recently announced pauses in both production and new model introductions of their EVs.
Dealers in the USA report having scores of new EVs, that they are now finding difficult to sell.
'Is Britain facing an EV car finance bombshell? How electric car owners who take out PCP loans risk paying far MORE than vehicle is worth due to collapse of second-hand market.'
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1...
An Aston Martin EV has been mentioned for launch in 2025.
Have there been any hints, that the first model might be a DBX battery version ?
That article you have linked to does not say what the headline implies.
PCPs are contracts where the final value is fixed at the beginning, much like a lease but with more options. It’s better that people have used PCPs for EV purchases when prices are falling.
It’s the lenders that are exposed, often an arm of the manufacturer. Both my EVs have dropped massively in value, when I got them on lease from MB they were on long lead times and in high demand. I get to give both vehicles back when the lease is up having paid a pittance towards their depreciation in that period.
It has been a strange time for vehicle supplies from covid till recently, it wont just be EVs where the GFV of vehicles set a year or two back is trending lower than expected.
Grrr EVs though.
PCPs are contracts where the final value is fixed at the beginning, much like a lease but with more options. It’s better that people have used PCPs for EV purchases when prices are falling.
It’s the lenders that are exposed, often an arm of the manufacturer. Both my EVs have dropped massively in value, when I got them on lease from MB they were on long lead times and in high demand. I get to give both vehicles back when the lease is up having paid a pittance towards their depreciation in that period.
It has been a strange time for vehicle supplies from covid till recently, it wont just be EVs where the GFV of vehicles set a year or two back is trending lower than expected.
Grrr EVs though.
Mercedes are now pairing their AMG V8 with an electric motor to produce over 800bhp (and 2.9sec 0-60) in the new SL 63 Performance: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-me...
Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
brother ted said:
Mercedes are now pairing their AMG V8 with an electric motor to produce over 800bhp (and 2.9sec 0-60) in the new SL 63 Performance: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-me...
Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
Well AML recently got a tech deal with Lucid.. So I would expect them to make use of that?Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
brother ted said:
Mercedes are now pairing their AMG V8 with an electric motor to produce over 800bhp (and 2.9sec 0-60) in the new SL 63 Performance: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-me...
Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
Why bother when the engine can be tuned to 800bhp as it is, without electric assistance, or the weight penalty?Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
brother ted said:
Mercedes are now pairing their AMG V8 with an electric motor to produce over 800bhp (and 2.9sec 0-60) in the new SL 63 Performance: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-me...
Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
The latest MB AMG-GT 63 Saloon car already has this tech available to buy now.Could be an indication of things to come for Aston?
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/2023091520...
Bonkers! The battery is tiny. Incredible how a little nudge can make such a difference.
cardigankid said:
Why bother when the engine can be tuned to 800bhp as it is, without electric assistance, or the weight penalty?
Not true, to reach 800bhp a V8 needs assistance, either in the form of turbos or electric motors.Agree about the weight penalty. That acceleration though...
brother ted said:
Mercedes are now pairing their AMG V8 with an electric motor to produce over 800bhp (and 2.9sec 0-60) in the new SL 63 Performance: https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-me...
Interesting. An electric motor for acceleration so fierce you have to climb out of the boot afterwards, and then a petrol engine so you can actually get to somewhere 
Stopped for a journey break today at M4 Membury Services (Eastbound).
Whilst enjoying a rest and our own coffee in the car, there was an opportunity to do some 'Electric Vehicle Era' research.
For a major motorway, they seem to have surprisingly few chargers, although there might be more somewhere on that site for Teslas. There are 3 designated parking spaces (all the marked spaces at that services, must have been designed years ago to be just wide enough for an Austin Mini or Ford Popular), but I think there might be more than one type of cable from each charger. Doubt two cables at a time could be used though, because there is only enough space for 3 cars.
With 5 battery cars present, 3 were charging and 2 waiting and it is not even the Christmas rush yet.
One of the waiting drivers approached each charging driver and I could hear him ask, "How much longer are you going to be".
Mind your own business, would have been my thought.
The driver who was asking questions, who had parked in a no parking position, arrived in a nearly new large Audi SUV, which probably cost 70 or 80 thousand and there he was, stuck and being impolite.
Having witnessed the stress involved, I don't think I want to become an EV evangelist. Our car contained enough 'energy' (petrol) for over 350 actual miles, so there were not even any thoughts about refuelling.
Dewi 2 said:
One of the waiting drivers approached each charging driver and I could hear him ask, "How much longer are you going to be".
I think that's a fair question. It might be 10 minutes, or three hours, so people waiting can plan accordingly (ie buy a chocolate bar, have lunch or put up a tent and settle in for the night).Simpo Two said:
I think that's a fair question. It might be 10 minutes, or three hours, so people waiting can plan accordingly (ie buy a chocolate bar, have lunch or put up a tent and settle in for the night).
Indeed. I've generally found EV folk treat each other pretty well. Our office has about 20 chargers and I'd say maybe 70 EVs in the carpark. We have a whatsapp group and everyone makes it work. I did chuckle the other week when someone had parked on someone elses charge cable and they couldn't leave the bay. "Who owns this car" 
With UK motorways, I'm yet to encounter such conditions with charging (5 years with the EV now), but I'm sure that time will come. Christmas sees us going from Utrecht to my parents in Wales, using the Newcastle Ferry. Previously we've stopped at the Trafford Centre when coming in via Hull but I've no idea if we'll get that far given its Newcastle. I'm also relaxed enough to not worry. So far we've only encountered one failed charger in France, it was 37 degrees and the sun was baking it so it knocked off after 5 mins, not too much of a shock, I just moved the car to one in the shade. The UK is still someway behind other countries. Fastned are starting to plug some of the gaps: https://fastnedcharging.com/en/locations, I believe they have several more tenders as well. Their chargers do "just work"
Regarding the 800hp AMG, I wish manufactures would just make 500bhp and cars 400kg lighter. Everything is so bloated these days,
Edited by dbs2000 on Wednesday 13th December 09:46
There is a stark two-tier EV experience at the moment - Tesla and everyone else.
My Model Y has a range of about 329 miles, is a good deal more efficient than most electric cars (loses less range in the winter) and has access to the excellent supercharger network. Living near Oxford, there are 16 dedicated Tesla chargers just a few miles away at Oxford services, which provide about 100 miles of range in 10 minutes.
On the rare occasion I have tried to use non-Tesla charging infrastructure on forecourts or service stations, it's a remarkably different experience and often quite frustrating, so I avoid it like the plague. Living with the Tesla as everyday transport has been a breeze - and I have a 160-mile round trip commute.
I would worry a bit about longer trips in the event that I was running a different EV.
My Model Y has a range of about 329 miles, is a good deal more efficient than most electric cars (loses less range in the winter) and has access to the excellent supercharger network. Living near Oxford, there are 16 dedicated Tesla chargers just a few miles away at Oxford services, which provide about 100 miles of range in 10 minutes.
On the rare occasion I have tried to use non-Tesla charging infrastructure on forecourts or service stations, it's a remarkably different experience and often quite frustrating, so I avoid it like the plague. Living with the Tesla as everyday transport has been a breeze - and I have a 160-mile round trip commute.
I would worry a bit about longer trips in the event that I was running a different EV.
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