Discussion
FrankieMac said:
I hope Jon continues to make comments too. I enjoy a good debate, and would certainly not wish to start a thread "Good things about the new Vantage".
However when the same old negative stuff just keeps gets regurgitated, without adding anything new, and by largely the same people it does get somewhat monotonous. For example; your continued comments regarding the engine, well just got irritating if I'm honest. I fully respect your passion but it was like picking up the same newspaper every morning and reading the same headline. I note others thought that too and you have ceased banging that same old drum; so thank you. We are all very clear what your thoughts are on that particular component.
Jon's suggestion that we might be quite mad to consider buying the new Vantage, and why don't you buy a two year old Vanquish instead with a link to another thread on the Vanquish triggered me to comment. Of course, it may well be an option for some. The Vanquish is a very good looking and very capable GT car.
I fully respect the genuine opinions and the intense passion folks here have for the brand, it is fully understood. I read your passionate post that you believe "what makes an Aston and Aston" has been lost in the new Vantage...I totally, totally disagree wholeheartedly with your view, but that's fine we are all entitled to our own opinion.
I am certainly not blinkered to think just because a few free lunch journalists have praised the car that makes it all positive. Also on the other side of the coin I'm not swayed by the complainers on here either. I have decided to make my own mind up after seeing the car. Admittedly I haven't driven the car (nor as anyone else except for a privileged few Max, Daniel & Martin) so there is still a (small) possibility that you are completely correct about the engine losing its NA virtues and has therefore spoiled the car. I will defer judgment on that until I have driven one.
I'm also convinced that however much folks complain here, Aston will not be changing their direction of travel. Enjoy your beautiful NA Vantage in good health, keep the passion burning for the old Vantage, she deserves every ounce and keep it forever.
Frankie, thanks for the good wishes. Fair warning -- when the engine issue comes up again, (I'm sure it will, even if not by me) I may respond However when the same old negative stuff just keeps gets regurgitated, without adding anything new, and by largely the same people it does get somewhat monotonous. For example; your continued comments regarding the engine, well just got irritating if I'm honest. I fully respect your passion but it was like picking up the same newspaper every morning and reading the same headline. I note others thought that too and you have ceased banging that same old drum; so thank you. We are all very clear what your thoughts are on that particular component.
Jon's suggestion that we might be quite mad to consider buying the new Vantage, and why don't you buy a two year old Vanquish instead with a link to another thread on the Vanquish triggered me to comment. Of course, it may well be an option for some. The Vanquish is a very good looking and very capable GT car.
I fully respect the genuine opinions and the intense passion folks here have for the brand, it is fully understood. I read your passionate post that you believe "what makes an Aston and Aston" has been lost in the new Vantage...I totally, totally disagree wholeheartedly with your view, but that's fine we are all entitled to our own opinion.
I am certainly not blinkered to think just because a few free lunch journalists have praised the car that makes it all positive. Also on the other side of the coin I'm not swayed by the complainers on here either. I have decided to make my own mind up after seeing the car. Admittedly I haven't driven the car (nor as anyone else except for a privileged few Max, Daniel & Martin) so there is still a (small) possibility that you are completely correct about the engine losing its NA virtues and has therefore spoiled the car. I will defer judgment on that until I have driven one.
I'm also convinced that however much folks complain here, Aston will not be changing their direction of travel. Enjoy your beautiful NA Vantage in good health, keep the passion burning for the old Vantage, she deserves every ounce and keep it forever.
Since you brought it up... Don't worry, it's not what you think (I think) , but to clarify: While I do prefer a NA engine, that's not the issue for me. I think turbos done well have their own appeal. I'm sure the AMG engine will work extremely well and I fully expect the new car to be great to drive. As you may know 
, its use of someone else's engine simply ends the appeal for me -- which is why I was hoping to love the car otherwise and was excited about the future version with Aston's V12. That I don't love it makes me a bit sad. I want to be excited about a new Aston again, to have that to look forward to. At this point, this "new direction" makes me wonder if I ever will. First world problems, clearly, and I'm not losing sleep over it (believe it or not), but I really hope they make something I deeply want again. I'm genuinely happy for those who do love the new car.Speedraser said:
That I don't love it makes me a bit sad. I want to be excited about a new Aston again, to have that to look forward to. At this point, this "new direction" makes me wonder if I ever will. First world problems, clearly, and I'm not losing sleep over it (believe it or not), but I really hope they make something I deeply want again.
I can understand that - I feel the same thing about Ferrari, and in fact to a lesser extent with the iPhone X. Bit odd to find yourself as a die-hard, 100% confirmed sale, “I want to buy this product if you’ll just hurry up and produce it” level of customer, then upon release not liking the new product enough to actually want it. RobDown said:
I’m studiously avoiding posting in this thread until I’ve seen the new car in the flesh. But I will say two things:
1. I’m told by someone that has driven the prototype extensively that the car is amazing behind the wheel
2. In design, I suspect many of us are old enough to remember when the curvy Ford Sierra came out (the jelly mould shape). Everyone hated it (including me as a child); where were the straight lines? It was so ugly compared with the cortina and Granada. But then of course within a couple of years that was the norm and it was the boxy 70/early 80s shapes that looked ugly. Sweeping curves were in!
Then a few years back I saw a Gallado for the first time- yuck! all straight lines and angles, no curves. But you know what? now I love it (and the subsequent Huracans and Aventadors). Angular is in for supercars, sweeping curves are out!
It’s a very long winded way of saying that tastes change over time (the same is true with music and literature and pretty much everything). What jars with us today- because it’s different - becomes beautiful as it becomes more familiar; there isn’t the same sense of discordance.
The new Vantage isn’t the old Vantage. And that naturally looks wrong to those of us who are so used to seeing the old shape. Indeed i suspect anything that wasn’t the old Vantage would have attracted criticism. Those on here who say “oh they should have used the DB10 design” have quickly forgotten the criticism that came In for on this forum when it was revealed.
So I hope (for AML and for us) that in 6-12 months when we’ve got more familiar with the new shape that we’ll similalry learn to love it
Now if I could just get Getoff to like my GT8.....
Well put. I’m reminded of the Bangle BMWs, looked very jarring when they came out but the Z4, 6-Series etc all look great now. Designers need to be pushing forward all the time. 1. I’m told by someone that has driven the prototype extensively that the car is amazing behind the wheel
2. In design, I suspect many of us are old enough to remember when the curvy Ford Sierra came out (the jelly mould shape). Everyone hated it (including me as a child); where were the straight lines? It was so ugly compared with the cortina and Granada. But then of course within a couple of years that was the norm and it was the boxy 70/early 80s shapes that looked ugly. Sweeping curves were in!
Then a few years back I saw a Gallado for the first time- yuck! all straight lines and angles, no curves. But you know what? now I love it (and the subsequent Huracans and Aventadors). Angular is in for supercars, sweeping curves are out!
It’s a very long winded way of saying that tastes change over time (the same is true with music and literature and pretty much everything). What jars with us today- because it’s different - becomes beautiful as it becomes more familiar; there isn’t the same sense of discordance.
The new Vantage isn’t the old Vantage. And that naturally looks wrong to those of us who are so used to seeing the old shape. Indeed i suspect anything that wasn’t the old Vantage would have attracted criticism. Those on here who say “oh they should have used the DB10 design” have quickly forgotten the criticism that came In for on this forum when it was revealed.
So I hope (for AML and for us) that in 6-12 months when we’ve got more familiar with the new shape that we’ll similalry learn to love it
Now if I could just get Getoff to like my GT8.....
Most opinions of the Vantage (note I say most, not all) have been formed from images. The first time I saw it was behind closed doors, in the metal, in Frankfurt and it absolutely blew me away.
Yes the grille is imposing, but I think people need to take in the design as a whole.
Speedraser said:
That I don't love it makes me a bit sad.
Yes, I get that. I wonder whether a lot of Vantage owners share the same feeling which is where the source of disappointment comes from? It was always going to be a hugely difficult task to hit emission targets, employ better tech/electronics, and above all make the new Vantage more beautiful than the old one (the hardest task of all IMHO). I think they have nailed the first two with the aid of Merc/AMG, but the design was probably the toughest brief I guess. However the more I see of it the more it grows on me.
Andy Palmer stated it IS the BEST car he's ever worked on in 38 years in the Automotive industry. That may be the case but I don't think its the most beautiful. I'd put it more like this; she may be the younger uglier sister compared to the older beautiful one but you know she's a better shag!
tgclowes said:
Can anyone confirm the colour of the car doing the rounds at dealerships at the moment? Is it the red one I saw photographed at Bristol? I'll be having a look when it's at my local, most people have told me that I need to see it in person as some photos aren't too flattering.
If that's the same car as I saw at the factory (which I assume it is), it is one of the new fixed combo packs called Molten.Therefore the exterior paint colour is Hyper Red.
tgclowes said:
Can anyone confirm the colour of the car doing the rounds at dealerships at the moment? Is it the red one I saw photographed at Bristol? I'll be having a look when it's at my local, most people have told me that I need to see it in person as some photos aren't too flattering.
Scorpus Red or Hyper Red I thought - was a new colour IIRC. It's a great colour to show off the contours of the body, particularly the bonnet that has a lot more going on than is visible with Lime Essence.
NFC 85 Vette said:
tgclowes said:
Can anyone confirm the colour of the car doing the rounds at dealerships at the moment? Is it the red one I saw photographed at Bristol? I'll be having a look when it's at my local, most people have told me that I need to see it in person as some photos aren't too flattering.
Scorpus Red or Hyper Red I thought - was a new colour IIRC. It's a great colour to show off the contours of the body, particularly the bonnet that has a lot more going on than is visible with Lime Essence.Beefmeister said:
RobDown said:
I’m studiously avoiding posting in this thread until I’ve seen the new car in the flesh. But I will say two things:
1. I’m told by someone that has driven the prototype extensively that the car is amazing behind the wheel
2. In design, I suspect many of us are old enough to remember when the curvy Ford Sierra came out (the jelly mould shape). Everyone hated it (including me as a child); where were the straight lines? It was so ugly compared with the cortina and Granada. But then of course within a couple of years that was the norm and it was the boxy 70/early 80s shapes that looked ugly. Sweeping curves were in!
Then a few years back I saw a Gallado for the first time- yuck! all straight lines and angles, no curves. But you know what? now I love it (and the subsequent Huracans and Aventadors). Angular is in for supercars, sweeping curves are out!
It’s a very long winded way of saying that tastes change over time (the same is true with music and literature and pretty much everything). What jars with us today- because it’s different - becomes beautiful as it becomes more familiar; there isn’t the same sense of discordance.
The new Vantage isn’t the old Vantage. And that naturally looks wrong to those of us who are so used to seeing the old shape. Indeed i suspect anything that wasn’t the old Vantage would have attracted criticism. Those on here who say “oh they should have used the DB10 design” have quickly forgotten the criticism that came In for on this forum when it was revealed.
So I hope (for AML and for us) that in 6-12 months when we’ve got more familiar with the new shape that we’ll similalry learn to love it
Now if I could just get Getoff to like my GT8.....
Well put. I’m reminded of the Bangle BMWs, looked very jarring when they came out but the Z4, 6-Series etc all look great now. Designers need to be pushing forward all the time. 1. I’m told by someone that has driven the prototype extensively that the car is amazing behind the wheel
2. In design, I suspect many of us are old enough to remember when the curvy Ford Sierra came out (the jelly mould shape). Everyone hated it (including me as a child); where were the straight lines? It was so ugly compared with the cortina and Granada. But then of course within a couple of years that was the norm and it was the boxy 70/early 80s shapes that looked ugly. Sweeping curves were in!
Then a few years back I saw a Gallado for the first time- yuck! all straight lines and angles, no curves. But you know what? now I love it (and the subsequent Huracans and Aventadors). Angular is in for supercars, sweeping curves are out!
It’s a very long winded way of saying that tastes change over time (the same is true with music and literature and pretty much everything). What jars with us today- because it’s different - becomes beautiful as it becomes more familiar; there isn’t the same sense of discordance.
The new Vantage isn’t the old Vantage. And that naturally looks wrong to those of us who are so used to seeing the old shape. Indeed i suspect anything that wasn’t the old Vantage would have attracted criticism. Those on here who say “oh they should have used the DB10 design” have quickly forgotten the criticism that came In for on this forum when it was revealed.
So I hope (for AML and for us) that in 6-12 months when we’ve got more familiar with the new shape that we’ll similalry learn to love it
Now if I could just get Getoff to like my GT8.....
Most opinions of the Vantage (note I say most, not all) have been formed from images. The first time I saw it was behind closed doors, in the metal, in Frankfurt and it absolutely blew me away.
Yes the grille is imposing, but I think people need to take in the design as a whole.
I liked the Gallardo when it was new, and I still do. But I love the (curvy) Miura. One of the few cars that has grown on me is the current Vanquish. I thought it was too fussy compared to the DB9/DBS. I still do, but I like it more now. It's still a bit over-styled and blingy IMO, especially compared to the Vantage/DB9/DBS, but in the right color -- one that tones down the fussy bits -- it looks gorgeous. I think the DB11 is good-looking, but no better than that. I dislike the roof-strakes, and it hasn't grown on me. I hope I come to like the New Vantage better over time, but based on experience I really don't expect to, and I have seen it in the flesh.
Speedraser said:
I liked the Gallardo when it was new, and I still do. But I love the (curvy) Miura. One of the few cars that has grown on me is the current Vanquish. I thought it was too fussy compared to the DB9/DBS. I still do, but I like it more now. It's still a bit over-styled and blingy IMO, especially compared to the Vantage/DB9/DBS, but in the right color -- one that tones down the fussy bits -- it looks gorgeous. I think the DB11 is good-looking, but no better than that. I dislike the roof-strakes, and it hasn't grown on me. I hope I come to like the New Vantage better over time, but based on experience I really don't expect to, and I have seen it in the flesh.
It's not a matter of growing on me. Some designs just have something special, not even quantifiable. The Miura, the Ferrari Daytona, the last generation Vantage and other cars not even mentioned. These cars are timeless (an overused description). People are drawn to them, people not even into cars, but recognize beauty. I agree the DB11 is not a special car, the roof c pillars just look odd. But cut the top off in Volante configuration. And it's truly beautiful.
It's like a beautiful woman. Lot of beauties, but how often for example does a Sophia Loren come along. Not often.
Maybe the new Vantage isn't meant to be perfect, but it's the best compromise between performance, style and value they could come up with. So what if she's not as beautiful as her mother as long as they can sell their quota of 3000-3500 per year, maybe that's good enough for Aston Martin.
V8 Vantage GT said:
It's not a matter of growing on me. Some designs just have something special, not even quantifiable. The Miura, the Ferrari Daytona, the last generation Vantage and other cars not even mentioned. These cars are timeless (an overused description). People are drawn to them, people not even into cars, but recognize beauty.
I agree the DB11 is not a special car, the roof c pillars just look odd. But cut the top off in Volante configuration. And it's truly beautiful.
It's like a beautiful woman. Lot of beauties, but how often for example does a Sophia Loren come along. Not often.
Maybe the new Vantage isn't meant to be perfect, but it's the best compromise between performance, style and value they could come up with. So what if she's not as beautiful as her mother as long as they can sell their quota of 3000-3500 per year, maybe that's good enough for Aston Martin.
Agree with a lot of above . A comparison may be when the beautiful DB6 ( and DB4/5 etc) was followed by DBS/Vantage - a pretty major design shift but possibly more accepted at the time because of the name change and overlap of production /supply . Perhaps we are comparing existing Vantage with new Vantage too much which is understandable however I think new Vantage is ,overall , a brilliant car and should be judged on its own merits . Some design elements may be challenging but I remember the great Ian Callum saying that designers have so many issues to overcome - safety regulations - cost pressures - dynamics - durability etc that it’s not a simple process and every year it gets tougher . There is also the fact that this car isn’t just targeted at a European/American market anymore which possibly the current model was . The market will decide but my gut feel is that Aston will gain more new Astoneers from other brands than it looses. Of course just my opinion but I hope I’m right because I want to see Aston Martin still producing cars in the future . I agree the DB11 is not a special car, the roof c pillars just look odd. But cut the top off in Volante configuration. And it's truly beautiful.
It's like a beautiful woman. Lot of beauties, but how often for example does a Sophia Loren come along. Not often.
Maybe the new Vantage isn't meant to be perfect, but it's the best compromise between performance, style and value they could come up with. So what if she's not as beautiful as her mother as long as they can sell their quota of 3000-3500 per year, maybe that's good enough for Aston Martin.
Speedraser said:
Frankie, thanks for the good wishes. Fair warning -- when the engine issue comes up again, (I'm sure it will, even if not by me) I may respond Since you brought it up... Don't worry, it's not what you think (I think) , but to clarify: While I do prefer a NA engine, that's not the issue for me. I think turbos done well have their own appeal. I'm sure the AMG engine will work extremely well and I fully expect the new car to be great to drive. As you may know , its use of someone else's engine simply ends the appeal for me -- which is why I was hoping to love the car otherwise and was excited about the future version with Aston's V12. That I don't love it makes me a bit sad. I want to be excited about a new Aston again, to have that to look forward to. At this point, this "new direction" makes me wonder if I ever will. First world problems, clearly, and I'm not losing sleep over it (believe it or not), but I really hope they make something I deeply want again. I'm genuinely happy for those who do love the new car.
Hmmm how about a700-710bhp v12 in the vantage? Since you brought it up... Don't worry, it's not what you think (I think) , but to clarify: While I do prefer a NA engine, that's not the issue for me. I think turbos done well have their own appeal. I'm sure the AMG engine will work extremely well and I fully expect the new car to be great to drive. As you may know , its use of someone else's engine simply ends the appeal for me -- which is why I was hoping to love the car otherwise and was excited about the future version with Aston's V12. That I don't love it makes me a bit sad. I want to be excited about a new Aston again, to have that to look forward to. At this point, this "new direction" makes me wonder if I ever will. First world problems, clearly, and I'm not losing sleep over it (believe it or not), but I really hope they make something I deeply want again. I'm genuinely happy for those who do love the new car.
(so power unit from the upcoming DBS) we know it'll fit as the engine bay was designed to take a larger engine from the outset apparently... Whilst heavier its an aston developed lump and there are a few on here who like the willy wagging idea of 4 more cylinders than the german sourced equivalent 
mattf93 said:
Hmmm how about a700-710bhp v12 in the vantage? (so power unit from the upcoming DBS) we know it'll fit as the engine bay was designed to take a larger engine from the outset apparently... Whilst heavier its an aston developed lump and there are a few on here who like the willy wagging idea of 4 more cylinders than the AMG sourced equivalent
EFA - as far as I know the v12 is also built in Germany (so power unit from the upcoming DBS) we know it'll fit as the engine bay was designed to take a larger engine from the outset apparently... Whilst heavier its an aston developed lump and there are a few on here who like the willy wagging idea of 4 more cylinders than the AMG sourced equivalent mattf93 said:
Hmmm how about a700-710bhp v12 in the vantage? (so power unit from the upcoming DBS) we know it'll fit as the engine bay was designed to take a larger engine from the outset apparently... Whilst heavier its an aston developed lump and there are a few on here who like the willy wagging idea of 4 more cylinders than the german sourced equivalent
The AE31, wonderful as it is... (so power unit from the upcoming DBS) we know it'll fit as the engine bay was designed to take a larger engine from the outset apparently... Whilst heavier its an aston developed lump and there are a few on here who like the willy wagging idea of 4 more cylinders than the german sourced equivalent 
Doesn't fit very well in here:
While the DB11 and Vantage share the same base chassis platform, the similarity ends soon after. Part of the reason the AMG 4.0 was chosen was that the hot-v configuration is quite compact. The AE31 doesn't have the facility to be a hot-v configuration (not at the moment at least). The indication at the moment is it simply wont fit unfortunately. If you use the strut brace line as a guide, the engine's mounted as far back as possible - the M177 nestles neatly under it, the AE31 cant help but bulge beyond it.
When you consider the 4.0 engine in a different guise (different base engine to the M177 IIRC) will make something around 800bhp. The AE31 can achieve similar numbers but not without taken up a lot more real estate under the bonnet.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 14th December 12:26
silverspeed said:
The market will decide but my gut feel is that Aston will gain more new Astoneers from other brands than it looses.
Just chatting to a guy at work who's recently taken delivery of a new Audi R8 V10 Spyder. Knowing I'm an Aston fan, he mentioned he loves the look of the new Vantage (noting it looks lower, more aggressive and altogether more 'purposeful') and that it's already on his shortlist when it comes to replacing the R8 in the next 12-18 months.It's conversations like this that convinces me the car will be a commercial success and that it matters very little what a small (but vocal) minority of Aston fans think of it!
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