Considering a DB11?

[Calinours]

neverlifted said:

Great write up, enjoyed reading that. Had mine circa 2 yrs/12k miles now. The AMR performance pack is worth having imo, it makes it sound a bit artificial, but does add a harder edge when you want it, and in GT mode it is no different to standard. Adds circa 10% to insurance even in mid 30s.

Had geo done at Center Gravity, setup perfectly now. I'd bin the S007s and try Potenza Sport/Mich PS4S.

Infotainment is alright, had the official Carplay/Android Auto installed, so now have wireless Android Auto- hit and miss on start up connection though.

Dipped beam is weak imo compared to the VAG group Matrix LEDs.

Thanks. There’s so much BS floating around the net that sometimes there has to be some sort of imperative to put down something to counter it. It would be very easy for someone potentially thinking of an AM these days to come away with the impression that all AML engine development and production has ceased and all the current cars are powered by Mercedes engines.

[neverlifted]

Calinours said:

Thanks. There’s so much BS floating around the net that sometimes there has to be some sort of imperative to put down something to counter it. It would be very easy for someone potentially thinking of an AM these days to come away with the impression that all AML engine development and production has ceased and all the current cars are powered by Mercedes engines.

Agreed. Actually, I backed out of completing on a Vantage for the DB11, the main factor was the V12- I didn't want a 63 engined car (even if it is reworked by AML) especially directly after a E63. For me, the only other V12 car that appeals is the 812 Superfast.

DB11 does have its quirks. The bonnet soft close is always temperamental, the wipers sometimes don't start first time, there's usually a random service message on cold start which clears after an ignition cycle once it is warmed up. The brake squeal/squeak can be annoying at low speed. Generally, the more you drive it, the better it all works!

[waremark]

neverlifted said:

DB11 does have its quirks. The bonnet soft close is always temperamental, the wipers sometimes don't start first time, there's usually a random service message on cold start which clears after an ignition cycle once it is warmed up. The brake squeal/squeak can be annoying at low speed. Generally, the more you drive it, the better it all works!

I've never had any of those issues on my older DB11!

I understand wanting a V12 and you mention the 812 as the only alternative. The GTC4 Lusso is available cheaper than an 812, much more practical, frankly much better chassis than the DB11, and can still drive like a proper sports car.

[Calinours]

waremark said:

neverlifted said:

DB11 does have its quirks. The bonnet soft close is always temperamental, the wipers sometimes don't start first time, there's usually a random service message on cold start which clears after an ignition cycle once it is warmed up. The brake squeal/squeak can be annoying at low speed. Generally, the more you drive it, the better it all works!

I've never had any of those issues on my older DB11!

I understand wanting a V12 and you mention the 812 as the only alternative. The GTC4 Lusso is available cheaper than an 812, much more practical, frankly much better chassis than the DB11, and can still drive like a proper sports car.

me neither. Do you use a battery conditioner? I learned the with my Vantage after all manner of random error messages that it absolutely had to have a tip top battery, ideally always connected to a conditioner.

Once I disabled the tracker, fitted another new battery, and always connected to its little life support - never another spurious message. Maybe the DB11 electrics are a) capable of eating batteries and b) a little sensitive to batteries approaching end of life? - a telling point may be that you mention that the errors disappear after start up, where the alternator will be raising battery voltage…?

Batteries remain inexpensive - 1st thing I would recommend is replace the battery and always connect a monitor. I read somewhere that AGM-type lead acid batteries were recommended for the new stuff due to the start-stop functionality.

I’ve always, with every car I’ve ever had given a decent squirt of spray lube to any exposed and moving metal mechanism annually (such as boot locks and bonnet catches) to prevent any possibility of seizure through corrosion.

[j4r4lly]

Great write up which echo's my experience with my DB11.

I have a 2017 DB11 V12 CEO Launch Edition with the AMR upgrade. Such a great car which in GT mode will waft about in serene comfort and then in Sport and Sport+ changes in character to a bit of a hot rod. Even now the effortless grunt of the engine surprises me, it really is a very quick car if provoked.

Negatives - the interior doesn't feel as special as the previous DB9 and Vantage, though it is very well put together, instruments are functional but no more, needs to be trickle charged or driven regularly to avoid random messages on the cluster, dipped headlights only adequate, gearshifts in Sport+ are very aggressive so not ideal for road use and I wonder what it does for the long term durability of the transmission, car is wide which can make country lanes and car parks challenging, brakes are over servo'd which is OK in normal use but they can be very "grabby" in slow moving traffic.

Positives - Definitely looks better in the metal than in pictures, interior is very comfortable and well built, B&O sound system is superb, all interior controls work nicely, boot is usable enough for a couple of cabin sized cases with suits/coats laid over the top and plenty of space either side for other odds and sods, back seat fine for younger people, small dogs and extra storage. Fuel economy in GT mode excellent (we managed just over 28 mpg on a 320 mile round trip from Essex to the New Forest driving at the speed limits) and it's great fun on an empty road using the paddle shifts. 360 camera works really well and is essential due to the front 5 feet of the car being invisible to the driver and the width of the car - mirror cameras are excellent at seeing where the front wheels are pointing or how close you are to a kerb/bollard/parked car etc. Love the 3 steering wheel settings for GT/Sport/Sport+ for the ride and engine/gearbox which allows you to easily tweak the cars character depending on your mood, road conditions etc. Ride comfort really very good in GT mode making long journeys very relaxing.

Overall it's an excellent car and I'm very happy and consider myself privileged to own it. Even my wife likes it!

[Calinours]

j4r4lly said:

Great write up which echo's my experience with my DB11.

I have a 2017 DB11 V12 CEO Launch Edition with the AMR upgrade. Such a great car which in GT mode will waft about in serene comfort and then in Sport and Sport+ changes in character to a bit of a hot rod. Even now the effortless grunt of the engine surprises me, it really is a very quick car if provoked.

Negatives - the interior doesn't feel as special as the previous DB9 and Vantage, though it is very well put together, instruments are functional but no more, needs to be trickle charged or driven regularly to avoid random messages on the cluster, dipped headlights only adequate, gearshifts in Sport+ are very aggressive so not ideal for road use and I wonder what it does for the long term durability of the transmission, car is wide which can make country lanes and car parks challenging, brakes are over servo'd which is OK in normal use but they can be very "grabby" in slow moving traffic.

Positives - Definitely looks better in the metal than in pictures, interior is very comfortable and well built, B&O sound system is superb, all interior controls work nicely, boot is usable enough for a couple of cabin sized cases with suits/coats laid over the top and plenty of space either side for other odds and sods, back seat fine for younger people, small dogs and extra storage. Fuel economy in GT mode excellent (we managed just over 28 mpg on a 320 mile round trip from Essex to the New Forest driving at the speed limits) and it's great fun on an empty road using the paddle shifts. 360 camera works really well and is essential due to the front 5 feet of the car being invisible to the driver and the width of the car - mirror cameras are excellent at seeing where the front wheels are pointing or how close you are to a kerb/bollard/parked car etc. Love the 3 steering wheel settings for GT/Sport/Sport+ for the ride and engine/gearbox which allows you to easily tweak the cars character depending on your mood, road conditions etc. Ride comfort really very good in GT mode making long journeys very relaxing.

Overall it's an excellent car and I'm very happy and consider myself privileged to own it. Even my wife likes it!

Thanks for the comments. The strangest thing is the difference between how it comes across in photos (a bit awkward from some angles) and how it looks in real life - utterly stunning, never failing to attract endless positive comments. I remember Chris Harris saying something similar in his road test and wondering what the hell he was on about, but he was, as he usually is, absolutely on the money... Also you make an interesting point on the brakes, I heard from some tests (I think a certain Mr Metcalfe was one) at launch that the brakes were a bit grabby, however I haven't noticed this at all in my 2018MY car. The brakes on mine work beautifully, there's no grabbing, no feeling of over assistance and they don't even squeal. Maybe there were some tweaks to the servo assistance config between launch and when mine was built?

Edited by Calinours on Wednesday 11th January 14:12

[neverlifted]

waremark said:

I've never had any of those issues on my older DB11!

I understand wanting a V12 and you mention the 812 as the only alternative. The GTC4 Lusso is available cheaper than an 812, much more practical, frankly much better chassis than the DB11, and can still drive like a proper sports car.

Much appreciate the suggestion, seems there's circa £50k between the GTC4Lusso and 812.

Back to DB11- apparently the brake squeal can be caused by some wheel cleaners.

Thank you for the tips on the battery. I did have it checked, it was fine at the time. Might look into battery chargers.

I too remember the Harris and Metcalfe video reviews being quite positive back in 2016, and Prior gave it 5* in Autocar.

[helloworld88]

GTC, I found to be a remarkable car. A car I would have loved to have! the issue I found with the car, despite almost all its beautiful features, was the seats. To this day, I have never driven a car that has given me so much back pain in less than one hour of driving. I am in my mid-30s and in good shape. My wife had the same experience in the car. I understand that the seats are controversial, with many echoing my opinion and others saying otherwise. Other than that, the car is astonishing in every way possible.

Finally, as noted in another thread, i am keen on getting a DB11 sadly the versions I like in my area all have a high mileage 30k-50k

[Calinours]

helloworld88 said:

GTC, I found to be a remarkable car. A car I would have loved to have! the issue I found with the car, despite almost all its beautiful features, was the seats. To this day, I have never driven a car that has given me so much back pain in less than one hour of driving. I am in my mid-30s and in good shape. My wife had the same experience in the car. I understand that the seats are controversial, with many echoing my opinion and others saying otherwise. Other than that, the car is astonishing in every way possible.

Finally, as noted in another thread, i am keen on getting a DB11 sadly the versions I like in my area all have a high mileage 30k-50k

Purely a UK obsession. If you suggested this was a ‘high mileage’ to anyone outside our tiny island they would laugh at you.

Don’t believe ? Checkout continental or US adverts. If you like it and it checks out, buy it, drive it, forget about mileage. Enjoy your car.

[DB9VolanteDriver]

Calinours said:

helloworld88 said:

GTC, I found to be a remarkable car. A car I would have loved to have! the issue I found with the car, despite almost all its beautiful features, was the seats. To this day, I have never driven a car that has given me so much back pain in less than one hour of driving. I am in my mid-30s and in good shape. My wife had the same experience in the car. I understand that the seats are controversial, with many echoing my opinion and others saying otherwise. Other than that, the car is astonishing in every way possible.

Finally, as noted in another thread, i am keen on getting a DB11 sadly the versions I like in my area all have a high mileage 30k-50k

Purely a UK obsession. If you suggested this was a ‘high mileage’ to anyone outside our tiny island they would laugh at you.

Don’t believe ? Checkout continental or US adverts. If you like it and it checks out, buy it, drive it, forget about mileage. Enjoy your car.

I’m not sure what you are referencing, but in the US, 30-50k miles on an Aston is high mileage. Astons in the US on average have less than 1/3 to 1/2 of similar UK Astons.

[helloworld88]

DB9VolanteDriver said:

Calinours said:

helloworld88 said:

GTC, I found to be a remarkable car. A car I would have loved to have! the issue I found with the car, despite almost all its beautiful features, was the seats. To this day, I have never driven a car that has given me so much back pain in less than one hour of driving. I am in my mid-30s and in good shape. My wife had the same experience in the car. I understand that the seats are controversial, with many echoing my opinion and others saying otherwise. Other than that, the car is astonishing in every way possible.

Finally, as noted in another thread, i am keen on getting a DB11 sadly the versions I like in my area all have a high mileage 30k-50k

Purely a UK obsession. If you suggested this was a ‘high mileage’ to anyone outside our tiny island they would laugh at you.

Don’t believe ? Checkout continental or US adverts. If you like it and it checks out, buy it, drive it, forget about mileage. Enjoy your car.

I’m not sure what you are referencing, but in the US, 30-50k miles on an Aston is high mileage. Astons in the US on average have less than 1/3 to 1/2 of similar UK Astons.

Yes this looks like the highest milage DB11 that is in the market in UK or the US from what i can see so not very encouraging..

[Calinours]

All I suggest is that the mileage obsession is possibly not healthy. Better a car that has been driven and properly maintained, no?

We all seem so paranoid miles will affect resale. So we don’t then drive the thing we bought, presumably, to enjoy, to drive?

[Simpo Two]

Calinours said:

All I suggest is that the mileage obsession is possibly not healthy. Better a car that has been driven and properly maintained, no?

Agreed.

Calinours said:

We all seem so paranoid miles will affect resale. So we don’t then drive the thing we bought, presumably, to enjoy, to drive?

Because I wanted a rare spec, I bought an Aston that was 2007, but had only done 14K miles. As a result it cost 30% more than I'd planned on spending, and yes, every time I take it out, my asset falls in value much more than if it had been higher mileage to start with. A low mileage car is an expensive car and one you'll lose money faster on.

[Octavarium]

I have just bought a 2018 DB11 V12 and have had the AMR upgrade added. It is absolutely brilliant. As suggested I will look to swap out the Bridgestones with PS4S in due course to make it even more so.

[Calinours]

Well done. You won’t believe the difference the PS4S make to the levels of lateral grip, the traction under hard acceleration and ultimately your confidence. Why they aren’t fitted by the factory is beyond me.

[Ninja59]

As the owner of a Vantage I can answer some of the above regarding the gearbox and battery conditioner (I also have the ear of a former Gaydon team member involved the in the development of the Vantage, but a lot of the modules are shared woth the DB11).

1) regarding batteries - highly sensitive to voltage changes which can produce random messages, so yes a battery conditioner is a must. Although he did say it generally has got worse the more cars have developed.

A number of the modules in the car for future reference as well are either completely changed from their mercedes counterparts or have complete configuration changes. In some cases, the same mercedes part will therefore not work on a second century AM.

2) Gearbox - the ZF 8HP is a well proven and reliable unit in all guises. The jolt that some cars have using the car is engineered in and therefore taken account of, it also having used the same box in a previous car, is generally set quite conservatively on safe torque limits having seen previous gen ones (8hp70 to precise) well over 100-150Nm above their safe limit without incident. Although in a Vantage we obviously have track as well, sport+ is actually a faster gear change.

That being said, from what I have learnt from said Gaydon former team member, it is a very much a hybrid of ZF components and Mercedes ones. Remember no mercedes uses the ZF box. Therefore some of the coolant pumps and other elements are Mercedes, the gearbox is obviously ZF and anyone considering significant performance improvements, that hybrid element could be a potential weak link.

One area AM did not integrate is the GPS location to the gearbox, which will not allow it to pre-emptively downshift prior to roundabouts like say a BMW group vehicle using the same box. Mainly I believe due to limitations of the sat navigation system and also Mercedes would never have had that in mind in development and internal warranty issues (which is AM's issue) may have arisen (even the Graziano manual on the Vantage is a little problematic in that respect).

[db11far]

funboxster said:

Since then, trouble free, BUT, mine has suffered twice with the well known water ingress problem through the middle bonnet vents, even following the vent modifications, necessitating the coil packs to be replaced on both banks, one side under warranty, the other(after an argument with my dealer and AM at Gaydon) at much reduced price. The guy from Gaydon told me to try to avoid using the car in the rain, or washing the bonnet!

Hi, I was not aware this was a well known ingress problem, very interesting to read.
How confident are you that this issue was caused by ingress through the vents, post-modification? How were you able to confirm that the coil packs required replacing? Did it cause a misfire? Thanks.

[reddiesel]

Calinours said:

Well done. You won’t believe the difference the PS4S make to the levels of lateral grip, the traction under hard acceleration and ultimately your confidence. Why they aren’t fitted by the factory is beyond me.

Just came across this Post rather belatedly . I junked a set of P Zeros last week which were standard fit to my Vantage in favour of the PS4S and I agree completely with your opinion . I also noticed the PS4S fitted to a brand new Aston Martin Vantage in the Works on Friday . Perhaps the penny has finally dropped .

[drocter81]

db11far said:

funboxster said:

Since then, trouble free, BUT, mine has suffered twice with the well known water ingress problem through the middle bonnet vents, even following the vent modifications, necessitating the coil packs to be replaced on both banks, one side under warranty, the other(after an argument with my dealer and AM at Gaydon) at much reduced price. The guy from Gaydon told me to try to avoid using the car in the rain, or washing the bonnet!

Hi, I was not aware this was a well known ingress problem, very interesting to read.
How confident are you that this issue was caused by ingress through the vents, post-modification? How were you able to confirm that the coil packs required replacing? Did it cause a misfire? Thanks.

Bumping up this post and reply.

My 2017 DB11 V12 is now also having its second set of plugs and coils replaced due to water ingress, despite having the modified vent shields. I think the advice around not washing the bonnet or driving in heavy rain is totally unacceptable.

Would love to know more about how you got Gaydon to discount the second set of plugs and coils.

TIA

[AMGWiz]

reddiesel said:

Just came across this Post rather belatedly . I junked a set of P Zeros last week which were standard fit to my Vantage in favour of the PS4S and I agree completely with your opinion . I also noticed the PS4S fitted to a brand new Aston Martin Vantage in the Works on Friday . Perhaps the penny has finally dropped .

Couldn't agree more. I put the PS5s on mine; they massively reduced the road noise and massivly increased the levels of grip. I no longer have the rear breaking loose with the merest of provocation! I wonder how much of the improved handling on the DB12 is down to the fact that they now fit PR5s as OEM...

Regarding the AMR upgrade. I see lots of people saying it's just software - well yes, the engine/gearbox upgrade is, but the AMR version had quite a lot of chassis and steering updates too (according to AM's chief engineer) which transformed the handling. In fact, when the V8 was first released, people raved about how much better it handled and mistakenly thought it was just down to the lighter nose, but whilst that helped, it wasn't the whole story. AM put all the "AMR" chassis updates on the V8 first. They then brought out the V12 in AMR guise with the same chassis updates that had been used on the V8. Later they dropped the AMR badge, but all V12s made after the AMR were basically still AMRs as they had the same updates.

You can read more about it and the interview with AMs chief engineer here: https://www.evo.co.uk/aston-martin/db11-coupe/2130...