Modifications and NCD
Discussion
Mel, welcome to my world!
There's no logic in the premise that 'upgrades' fitted retrospectively become more of a risk to the insurers than those specced and fitted at the factory stage of the build. After all, we're talking official Aston Martin parts here and not some souped up 3rd party supplier. My guess is that you'd be taking a risk in not notifying the insurance company of the changes should you need to claim....a risk I found unacceptable.
It would be good to locate an official body for insurers that we could discuss the issue with as this is blatant shafting!
As with most things insurance related, logic isn't something considered where there's a buck to be made.
There's no logic in the premise that 'upgrades' fitted retrospectively become more of a risk to the insurers than those specced and fitted at the factory stage of the build. After all, we're talking official Aston Martin parts here and not some souped up 3rd party supplier. My guess is that you'd be taking a risk in not notifying the insurance company of the changes should you need to claim....a risk I found unacceptable.
It would be good to locate an official body for insurers that we could discuss the issue with as this is blatant shafting!
As with most things insurance related, logic isn't something considered where there's a buck to be made.
I would say its always worth telling your insurance company so its out of your hands if something happens they then can't use anything against you. I have heard horror stories. Adrian Flux wouldn't ever class any factory fitted options as mods as long as they were fitted when the car was built. Anything added by the dealer or yourself must be declared. Other insurers me be different though.
Jockman said:
Two questions -
My AM has 5 optional extras fitted on it by AM at the factory - rear lights, front PDC etc.
Do these constitute Modifications and subsequently need to be declared to my insurance, or are they reflected in the declared 'insurance value' level?
Secondly, 25 years company car NCD, but only 1 year private NCD. Anyone out there who will account for the company car NCD ???
If the car was bought and these options were specced at the time of order then they are not modifications.My AM has 5 optional extras fitted on it by AM at the factory - rear lights, front PDC etc.
Do these constitute Modifications and subsequently need to be declared to my insurance, or are they reflected in the declared 'insurance value' level?
Secondly, 25 years company car NCD, but only 1 year private NCD. Anyone out there who will account for the company car NCD ???
A modification is classed as some item changed altered from a factory supplied spec.
So unless they are some of the power upgrades then you will be fine
Ash From Flux said:
Adrian Flux wouldn't ever class any factory fitted options as mods as long as they were fitted when the car was built. Anything added by the dealer or yourself must be declared.
Thanks for joining the thread Ash.Can you explain why there is a difference between fitting something at the factory, when the car is built, and fitting the exact same item retrospectively?
RJDM3 said:
So unless they are some of the power upgrades then you will be fine
Now why is that?If I increase the power output of my car using an official Aston Martin upgrade, say to 400bhp from 380bhp, why is my insurance more than someone who has an N420 or indeed someone who bought an N400?
Imho, there's no logic whatsoever in the way that these factory upgrades are processed by insurance companies other than to take advantage of the owner.
Steve*B said:
Thanks for joining the thread Ash.
Can you explain why there is a difference between fitting something at the factory, when the car is built, and fitting the exact same item retrospectively?
I look forward to hearing the reply to this too. Can you explain why there is a difference between fitting something at the factory, when the car is built, and fitting the exact same item retrospectively?
Also, why should cosmetic, manufacturer options, fitted later cause some insurance companies to refuse to insure a vehicle?
Steve*B said:
Now why is that?
If I increase the power output of my car using an official Aston Martin upgrade, say to 400bhp from 380bhp, why is my insurance more than someone who has an N420 or indeed someone who bought an N400?
Imho, there's no logic whatsoever in the way that these factory upgrades are processed by insurance companies other than to take advantage of the owner.
I am also interested in the reply to this one given that is exactly the experience I went through with my current insurers. They boosted the premium significantly due to the AM Works upgrade to 400bhp on my V8V.If I increase the power output of my car using an official Aston Martin upgrade, say to 400bhp from 380bhp, why is my insurance more than someone who has an N420 or indeed someone who bought an N400?
Imho, there's no logic whatsoever in the way that these factory upgrades are processed by insurance companies other than to take advantage of the owner.
Well if when you first buy the car when its brand new and have a factory option fitted by the dealer then that would be OK with us (other companies may be different) but if for example after a year of ownership you upgrade to some bigger wheels or sports exhaust you would have to declare them as you would want them covered for their value.
Ash From Flux said:
Well if when you first buy the car when its brand new and have a factory option fitted by the dealer then that would be OK with us (other companies may be different) but if for example after a year of ownership you upgrade to some bigger wheels or sports exhaust you would have to declare them as you would want them covered for their value.
Ash, firstly, I have to say that it's very brave of you to respond. However, you haven't really dealt with the issue as to why there is a differential on insurance premiums for something that is fitted retrospectively. The parts in question are those offered by Aston Martin and fitted by Aston Martin. Many of these upgrade packages are offered at the time of purchase but are also available to be fitted at some later date. The rule appears to be that you do not need to notify the insurance company if the upgrades are fitted prior to delivery and indeed by doing so you have avoided any hike in premiums. Get them fitted later and, if you can find an insurance company who will cover you, then you suffer a ridiculous increase in premiums. Please explain the logic in this?
You suggest that 'we would want to declare them as we would want them covered for their value' and yet I have been informed by my insurer that, despite my premiums increasing by more than 100%, that the upgrades will not in fact be covered anyway should the car be involved in an accident!
Forgive me for stating the bleedin' obvious but if there was an insurance company out there who genuinely based premiums on actual risk and who identified this ridiculous anomaly that is simply a 'timing issue' on when these upgrades are fitted then there's every chance that their business would attract a lot more customers with no additional risk whatsoever.
Yes, thank you Ash.
I agree with everything Steve has said above. Logically, cosmetic upgrades, which, even if they were covered (!) will not add anything to a vehicles value, it's purely personal choice. Therefore, I would see no reason whatsoever for any increase In premium.
As Steve says, it's merely a timing issue of when these factory options are fitted.
I agree with everything Steve has said above. Logically, cosmetic upgrades, which, even if they were covered (!) will not add anything to a vehicles value, it's purely personal choice. Therefore, I would see no reason whatsoever for any increase In premium.
As Steve says, it's merely a timing issue of when these factory options are fitted.
said:
Forgive me for stating the bleedin' obvious but if there was an insurance company out there who genuinely based premiums on actual risk and who identified this ridiculous anomaly that is simply a 'timing issue' on when these upgrades are fitted then there's every chance that their business would attract a lot more customers with no additional risk whatsoever.
I can see at least 2 potential new customers here.....And possibly many more who so far haven't notified their companies about different coloured rear lights and a different sill design.....
It seems to me that we are all missing the point. It is probably correct that the modifications (either minor performance increases or cosmetic changes) have minial impact on the actual performance or value of the car. Hence you would imagine there should be no change to the premium. However, the insured risk includes both the driver and the vehicle; and I strongly suspect that insurers regard people who modify their cars are a higher risk. If I am correct, then the premium increases are nothing to do with the modifications and everything to do with the person choosing to modify the car.
spiralp said:
It seems to me that we are all missing the point. It is probably correct that the modifications (either minor performance increases or cosmetic changes) have minial impact on the actual performance or value of the car. Hence you would imagine there should be no change to the premium. However, the insured risk includes both the driver and the vehicle; and I strongly suspect that insurers regard people who modify their cars are a higher risk. If I am correct, then the premium increases are nothing to do with the modifications and everything to do with the person choosing to modify the car.
With absolute respect for your point of view, I'm afraid that you are missing the point unless it's your contention that someone who delays the modification until after taking delivery is somehow different to someone who orders that same modification prior to taking delivery? If it relates to the power upgrade offered by Aston then I refer to my previous question as to why the insurance for my 400bhp is more than a similar quote for someone with the N400 or N420?This is the, yet unanswered, point that's being made.
This is the wording from the Admiral website when you go on to get a quote:
Modifications
Please enter if your car is modified.
A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades.
If you are uncertain whether your car is modified or not, please check with your local garage.
Not sure if all mainstream insruance providers are the same, but I have had the argument with several insurance companies when getting quotes about whether I need to tell them about all factory fitted options. Thankfully the only argument is when taking out the insurance (not had to make a claim), but I was told in no uncertain terms that if I didn't tell them about factory fitted options, then they wouldn't be covered in the event of a claim (eg damage to bumper, parking sensors may not be covered)
Modifications
Please enter if your car is modified.
A modification is any change to the car away from the manufacturer's standard specification including optional extras, such as alloy wheels, body styling kits and exhaust/carburettor upgrades.
If you are uncertain whether your car is modified or not, please check with your local garage.
Not sure if all mainstream insruance providers are the same, but I have had the argument with several insurance companies when getting quotes about whether I need to tell them about all factory fitted options. Thankfully the only argument is when taking out the insurance (not had to make a claim), but I was told in no uncertain terms that if I didn't tell them about factory fitted options, then they wouldn't be covered in the event of a claim (eg damage to bumper, parking sensors may not be covered)
Thanks for the recommendations and advice chaps - Chris Knott and Hiscox (through A-Plan) were extremely useful.
I've stuck to Locktons for this year.
With a pretty accurate £75,000 valuation and only 1 year private NCD, I'm ok with the final premium of £960. Next year is projected at £850.
Good luck with the modifications debate - I seem to have created a veritable hornet's nest.
I think you will ultimately discover what you already know. Insurers will only ever make sense to other Insurers.
I've stuck to Locktons for this year.
With a pretty accurate £75,000 valuation and only 1 year private NCD, I'm ok with the final premium of £960. Next year is projected at £850.
Good luck with the modifications debate - I seem to have created a veritable hornet's nest.
I think you will ultimately discover what you already know. Insurers will only ever make sense to other Insurers.
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