Discussion
Jon39 said:
Yes, very interesting design, although not for me to own. I think it is a Toyata Supra concept. Note the rear wing slots away out of sight.
We all remember 'Charlotte'. She is the wealthy American buyer, that the DBX is being aimed at.
Well I found out today, that the new Vantage has also been designed for a specific buyer.
MARCUS is a 38 year old German banker. He appreciates Anglo-Saxon design, appreciates handmade. Wants a weekend warrior, they can go and do track days with. "This is where you’re starting to get to the definition of the customer. And then, you design with that in mind." AP.
This talk first raised its head a couple of years ago. They mapped out the persona’s of the buyers for each model in the future line up. It included name, age, profession, nationality and tastes, etc.
I remember thinking at the time how off putting it was as I didn’t seem to match any of them, but I liked the sound of the car the brash German accountant was likely to be driving! (A hardcore replacement to the Vanquish I think it was).
Understandably it was to generate interest in the brand before the new cars were anywhere near ready to start showing.
Seeing the new cars coming through is far more exciting!
I remember thinking at the time how off putting it was as I didn’t seem to match any of them, but I liked the sound of the car the brash German accountant was likely to be driving! (A hardcore replacement to the Vanquish I think it was).
Understandably it was to generate interest in the brand before the new cars were anywhere near ready to start showing.
Seeing the new cars coming through is far more exciting!
Type casting of potential customers is a little strange. I remember back at the Vantage Confidentials last year, I was the youngest attendee there by a margin, but I don't fit any of the good Doctor's intended markets by the sound of it. The issue is that I don't think manufacturers necessarily understand their customer's interests, not when they have an almost pre-determined profession, age and background (like some sort of criminal psychologist case file).
They understand that younger buyers have access to funds sooner than in previous years, but being on the younger end of AM ownership (32), most of my peers gravitate toward the more lairy looking German variety of machinery.
It's assumed that younger customers want more yobbish looking cars, and perhaps there's a demographic that do, but it's a comparison between say (some YouTubers as an example), Supers of London and Seen Through Glass - one likes the lairy, shouty, flamboyant variety, and one likes the more classical, traditional, perhaps retro variety. Similar age range, different tastes.
The appeal of an Aston for me was always how understated it was; it went somewhat under the radar, but if you knew, you knew, and it has an unrivaled classy look and feel that wasn't shouty, but made a noise that would eclipse the rowdiness of its rivals, with a delicate symphony of well engineered noise, and that was regardless of the number of cylinders.
If the new Vantage does miss the mark, it's because the pendulum has swung too far toward a younger sector of buyers, who might want an Aston, but were happier with the more classically styled models. It's hard to say at the moment, it'll be interesting to see in perhaps 18 months time what the demographic of ownership is. For the first time in a while, Aston are able to produce cars that compete on performance rather than purely on aesthetics.
Vaguely related, I had a tour of the Morgan factory on Tuesday this week, and was told the age of their average customer was 70 - 75, in fact every one else on the tour was a good 30+ years more senior than I. The hosts looked surprised I was attending at all, but having had a soft spot of the 3-wheeler and Aero 8 for some years, it was an opportunity to see what goes into them (wonderful tour by the way, recommended). The point here is that tastes are changing, as much as the demographic of where the customer base comes from.
They understand that younger buyers have access to funds sooner than in previous years, but being on the younger end of AM ownership (32), most of my peers gravitate toward the more lairy looking German variety of machinery.
It's assumed that younger customers want more yobbish looking cars, and perhaps there's a demographic that do, but it's a comparison between say (some YouTubers as an example), Supers of London and Seen Through Glass - one likes the lairy, shouty, flamboyant variety, and one likes the more classical, traditional, perhaps retro variety. Similar age range, different tastes.
The appeal of an Aston for me was always how understated it was; it went somewhat under the radar, but if you knew, you knew, and it has an unrivaled classy look and feel that wasn't shouty, but made a noise that would eclipse the rowdiness of its rivals, with a delicate symphony of well engineered noise, and that was regardless of the number of cylinders.
If the new Vantage does miss the mark, it's because the pendulum has swung too far toward a younger sector of buyers, who might want an Aston, but were happier with the more classically styled models. It's hard to say at the moment, it'll be interesting to see in perhaps 18 months time what the demographic of ownership is. For the first time in a while, Aston are able to produce cars that compete on performance rather than purely on aesthetics.
Vaguely related, I had a tour of the Morgan factory on Tuesday this week, and was told the age of their average customer was 70 - 75, in fact every one else on the tour was a good 30+ years more senior than I. The hosts looked surprised I was attending at all, but having had a soft spot of the 3-wheeler and Aero 8 for some years, it was an opportunity to see what goes into them (wonderful tour by the way, recommended). The point here is that tastes are changing, as much as the demographic of where the customer base comes from.
Dick Dastardly said:
Yep. As a marketer by trade this makes me cringe and I apologise on behalf of my profession.
You and me both.I remember many years ago, whilst in a marketing meeting discussing how we were going to position a new product in the market,. I suggested (half jokingly) that maybe we should just use ‘honest marketing’ and no BS. Oh how not to impress
MARCUS is a 38 year old German banker. He appreciates Anglo-Saxon design, appreciates handmade. Wants a weekend warrior, they can go and do track days with. "This is where you’re starting to get to the definition of the customer. And then, you design with that in mind." AP.
I'm depressed
I'm depressed
Creating personas is a normal part of the design process, they just aren't often released. Every car has a target audience which includes age, profession, likes and dislikes etc. There would have been a few for the car but that is the only one (I've seen) revealed, and they are often so specific that most people wouldn't identify with them in their entirety.
I used to be in marketing too. No longer, thank goodness.
The thing about cars is that so many of the great and memorable ones are created by gifted designers and engineers, not marketeers. People with ambition and creativity looking to push the envelope rather than make something to 'best fit' what the buyer might want.
Think Elise, Golf Gti, E-type, the first M cars, the great Ferraris and so many more. The cars were unexpected and created their own mystique.
Possibly it is the 'marketing' that has spoiled the new Vantage for me. It is, beneath everything, a good looking car. But some idiot thought it wasn't 'rad' enough for Marcus the German so they put incongruous, out of place protuberances onto it.
The turbos and Merc bits aren't for me but I can understand why they were needed. But the unnecessary need to 'Lambo-ise' it is unforgivable.
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
The thing about cars is that so many of the great and memorable ones are created by gifted designers and engineers, not marketeers. People with ambition and creativity looking to push the envelope rather than make something to 'best fit' what the buyer might want.
Think Elise, Golf Gti, E-type, the first M cars, the great Ferraris and so many more. The cars were unexpected and created their own mystique.
Possibly it is the 'marketing' that has spoiled the new Vantage for me. It is, beneath everything, a good looking car. But some idiot thought it wasn't 'rad' enough for Marcus the German so they put incongruous, out of place protuberances onto it.
The turbos and Merc bits aren't for me but I can understand why they were needed. But the unnecessary need to 'Lambo-ise' it is unforgivable.
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
Ex Boy Racer said:
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
I don't mind it, but I'm conscious of it being specced sympathetically to bring out the shape. If we look at the front end, the automatic response is to have the black pack and black mesh, to try and hide what's going on. I've come to the conclusion that all that does is make the black area look even larger if the black pack is specced, with a black mesh grille. Speccing it with a magnum colour mesh actually looked more subtle (the lips then framed it and showed the silhouette off a bit better). As a hybrid of Astons past and Astons future, it then looks how I'd expect it to (and less like a Vulcan front end has been grafted on to try and bump up the aggression).At the rear, the diffuser and inverted 'v' mouldings above the tail pipes protrude quite a way, again in gloss black they look a little more subtle than in graphite, and definitely more so than the carbon pack. If the diffuser in isolation could be carbon, that might look nice, but having what's essentially a carbon bumper isn't great on a road car (IMO it makes it look like it's unfinished).
With all that said, it comes back to the simple fact that the speccing of the car will determine how good it looks. With the old Vantage you could spec it in as hideous a fashion as you like, and it'd still look attractive.
Ex Boy Racer said:
I used to be in marketing too. No longer, thank goodness.
The thing about cars is that so many of the great and memorable ones are created by gifted designers and engineers, not marketeers. People with ambition and creativity looking to push the envelope rather than make something to 'best fit' what the buyer might want.
Think Elise, Golf Gti, E-type, the first M cars, the great Ferraris and so many more. The cars were unexpected and created their own mystique.
Possibly it is the 'marketing' that has spoiled the new Vantage for me. It is, beneath everything, a good looking car. But some idiot thought it wasn't 'rad' enough for Marcus the German so they put incongruous, out of place protuberances onto it.
The turbos and Merc bits aren't for me but I can understand why they were needed. But the unnecessary need to 'Lambo-ise' it is unforgivable.
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
This is really the point. The unrivaled, classy design got somehow lost to an extent that annoys parts of the old customer base. An Aston Martin is expected to be created by gifted designers and this new Vantage´s front does not fulfill the primary requirements for an AML-car. That is sad, because I expect that the engineering part will be excellent. I am very happy with my old (n/a) car, and at the same time very pleased about the new car with the AMG-turbo-charged-engine. The thing about cars is that so many of the great and memorable ones are created by gifted designers and engineers, not marketeers. People with ambition and creativity looking to push the envelope rather than make something to 'best fit' what the buyer might want.
Think Elise, Golf Gti, E-type, the first M cars, the great Ferraris and so many more. The cars were unexpected and created their own mystique.
Possibly it is the 'marketing' that has spoiled the new Vantage for me. It is, beneath everything, a good looking car. But some idiot thought it wasn't 'rad' enough for Marcus the German so they put incongruous, out of place protuberances onto it.
The turbos and Merc bits aren't for me but I can understand why they were needed. But the unnecessary need to 'Lambo-ise' it is unforgivable.
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
By the way, there are relatively few German bankers whose salary is in line with a London investment banker´s salary. And German bankers may be more conservative than London bankers and less willing to show their income. That marketing selection of a typical customer seems to be somewhat strange from my point of view... (we got the point that the brand is too dependant on the British market)
Ex Boy Racer said:
I know some on here like the new Vantage, but is there anyone who really likes the lips and diffuser?
I actually like the diffuser as I also like the more aggressive looks of this car. I don't have a big issue with the front lips either. What I cannot stand are the slitty headlights which just look completely out of proportion with the rest of the car.garyhun said:
I actually like the diffuser as I also like the more aggressive looks of this car. I don't have a big issue with the front lips either. What I cannot stand are the slitty headlights which just look completely out of proportion with the rest of the car.
I’m completely with you on this. The lights just don’t work for me. The rest though spec dependent is striking. Perhaps the bonnet could do with a vent or intake to break up the bulge and reference the Aston heritage but otherwise it looks great. It’s only the lights that really just ruin the design for me. oh dear, wasn't aston martin all about the brand , creating something which was beautiful and sold on its looks that appealed to many people from differing backgrounds on every level rather than one target market . it was the all british dream , doesn't building a car to a particular person limit the appeal some what,
it would be interesting to see what ages we have on this forum and who fits the profile,
MARCUS is a 38 year old German banker
ME-British worker although I have been mistaker for a banker
He appreciates Anglo-Saxon design,
ME - brand and beauty and understated doesn't need to be british
appreciates handmade
ME - appreciate quality
Wants a weekend warrior, they can go and do track days with.
ME - nope something that can sit in the garage for weeks or months and still make you happy knowing its there or can be driven day in or out but track doesn't interest me
So from the above they have done a great job at the design as its not aimed at me and I don't like it!
it would be interesting to see what ages we have on this forum and who fits the profile,
MARCUS is a 38 year old German banker
ME-British worker although I have been mistaker for a banker
He appreciates Anglo-Saxon design,
ME - brand and beauty and understated doesn't need to be british
appreciates handmade
ME - appreciate quality
Wants a weekend warrior, they can go and do track days with.
ME - nope something that can sit in the garage for weeks or months and still make you happy knowing its there or can be driven day in or out but track doesn't interest me
So from the above they have done a great job at the design as its not aimed at me and I don't like it!
I wonder whether these marketing customer profiles, are ever reviewed during the following years?
Perhaps 51% of new Vantage buyers will be Marcus types, living in Deuscheland.
Admittedly an old cynic, but my guess would be that the majority of Aston Martin new buyers, do not conform significantly to any particular average at all. Obviously we need the ability to pay, but how that is/has been achieved, could be in a multitude of different ways.
Has there always been customer profiling before a product is designed?
I cannot believe Mr Victor Gauntlett would have much time for this stuff, but it might be fun for us to imagine an average Newport Pagnell marketing profile for that era.
Bow tie, tweed suit, cigars, polo player --------
What would be a suitable name for our customer ?
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 8th February 13:03
B4rnst4ble said:
it would be interesting to see what ages we have on this forum and who fits the profile,
MARCUS is a 38 year old German bankerME-British worker/layabout although I have been mistaken for a w
ker which is closeHe appreciates Anglo-Saxon design,
ME - no idea what anglo-saxon design is, I like what I like
appreciates handmade
ME - appreciate high production quality
Wants a weekend warrior, they can go and do track days with.
ME - I have motorbikes for stuff like that, my AM is my DD most of the time.
So snap, from the above they have done a great job at the design as its not aimed at me and I don't like it either!
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