Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?

[Jon39]

Here is an idea for Aston Martin.

Take a two and a half ton Range Rover, add one ton of batteries, then charge at home with electricity, of which half is often generated by burning fosil fuels.

Brilliant, now we really have found a way to save the planet.

[Jon39]

oilit said:

The Lucid whilst expensive, seems to fair well - how does it compare to a Tesla Model S I wonder?

An intriguing start-up business. Car very well received, but they just cannot sell as many as they make, and even then, they only built 1550 in the 3rd Quarter 2023.
There are 250 million adults in the USA, of course not all of them can afford a Lucid Air, but Q3 deliveries of 1,457 cars, is hardly 'hitting the ground running'.

To resolve the failure to meet target, the annual target has been reduced !

The Company's valuation peaked at $91 billion. (What !)
However, its stock price has since dropped by approximately 93%.

[Jon39]

The December UK new registration figures reveal a change.

Battery Electric Vehicles;

December 2022 = 42,285
December 2023 = 27,841

I think TESLA work in batches of ship arrivals, so perhaps a huge number arrived here in December 2022.
Or, it might be a decline in new EV purchasing by private buyers. I don't know.

[Jon39]

M1AGM said:

Jon39 said:

The December UK new registration figures reveal a change.

Battery Electric Vehicles;

December 2022 = 42,285
December 2023 = 27,841

I think TESLA work in batches of ship arrivals, so perhaps a huge number arrived here in December 2022.
Or, it might be a decline in new EV purchasing by private buyers. I don't know.

Or the economic environment had changed considerably between those periods.
All car sales are down.

Not down, M1AGM.
That is the interesting point and why I posted. The Battery EV category was alone, in being down during December.
For full year, only the diesel categories were down.





EDIT - I have just spotted the reason.
As mentioned in my post above, it is due to Tesla. They seem to supply in batches, which vary monthly.
December 2022 = 16,368.
December 2023 = 5,517.

Edited by Jon39 on Friday 5th January 17:21

[Jon39]

M1AGM said:

Interesting and thanks for correcting me. Is there a source for these data tables? Apologies if I missed it.

Yes, M1AGM. The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders publish the information shortly after the beginning of each month.
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrati...
They obtain the data from the DVLA.
When you touch/click the Brand tabs, you won't find Aston Martin. It used to be shown, but soon after the company flotation, the figures ceased to appear. I don't know why. Other public companies are included. Even Fisker has now appeared for the first time in December.

The DVLA publish much more detailed information, down to individual model level, quarterly.
The annoying point is, they take ages to make each update available.

I did a quarterly comparison, (first month of production onwards) using that data, between 2005 to 2018 Vantage and the successor, also between the DB9 and DB11. When I put the early reports on here, it was not too well received. I think it was suggested that the comparisons were unreasonable, or something. I was only quoting facts.

With all this stuff, we always have to remember, it is UK only. AML is the only source of the full figures.

[Jon39]

TheDeuce said:

... But there is a stigma these days with owning a 'gas guzzler', which electrification solves. ...

Don't worry about the stigma.

You just need two strips of green sticky tape.
Attach each piece to the left hand side of your car's number plates.

Should be much more economical than your idea of buying a new 3 ton Range Rover EV.

[Jon39]

Don't get upset.
There is an explanation that does put everything into context.

'TheDuece' comment about stigma, first appeared on the EV and Alternative Fuels forum.
Evangelists United, I think is their team name.

They appear to be very much looking forward to the forthcoming Range Rover EV, because it will accelerste much faster than a Range Rover Sport. No mention about it having to lug around an extra ton of batteries.
PX the RR Sport and pollute the planet by having another SUV manufactured, then preach about carbon-zero and chesp home charging (with electricity that has usually been 50% generated by burning gas and coal).

[Jon39]

quench said:

Our 'leaders' over here will tell you that how it supposed to work is very simple: the higher price is meant to persuade you into making choices which are more environmentally friendly (debatable at best), like heat pumps and electric cars. Unfortunately, those are even more expensive! Currently the plan doesn't seem to be working out too well: the sales figures don't lie. The solution? Double down and pass more legislation to ensure 'persuade' becomes 'force'.

In the UK, we had a protest group who called themselves Stop Oil. It seemed to consiste of a mixture of odd-ball characters, vicars, lecturers, older women and youngsters of independent means being supported by their parents. Some drove hundred of miles to the protests in diesel vehicles. If they were true to the cause, at least they should have travelled in the style of the ancient pilgrims, who walked for days on their way to Canterbury. With the recent cold wintery weather, there have not been any of these protests. Expect they are all keeping themselves warm, with oil or gas central heating.

To make matters worse, was the weak approach by police and the courts. It is illegal to walk on our motorway roads, except in the case of a motoring emergency. The protesters repeatedly walked on to motorways, sat down and blocked the traffic, causing thousands of motorists to be stuck for hours. Instances of ambulances and ladies about to give birth were described. The wishy washy police asked the criminals, 'Would you like a cup of tea".

Can you imagine ceasing to use any oil immediately? We would instantly discover what life in the Middle Ages was like.

Edited by Jon39 on Monday 5th February 14:46

[Jon39]

Aston Martin now agree with the opinion expressed on this topic.

'Aston Martin puts the brakes on its new electric supercar until 2026.
Aston Martin won't sell its new electric supercar until 2026. Bosses said customers still want to hear the iconic roar of the engine.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13138123/...

[Jon39]

jonby said:

Really ? That's the take ?

You think Aston were ready to launch an EV sooner than 2026, but have put it back because of market trends and low consumer demand ?

I did think that when I was writing my post.

Make the most of any excuse. Sounds as though not all Valhalla orders have been sold.
Originally 500 limited, later changed to 999 limited.

The article I think referred to BEV, whereas the Valhalla is expected to be PHEV.

Lucid make BEVs (but not PHEVs) and even sell a few of the cars they build.
Out of 100,000,000 vehicles in USA, Lucid managed to sell 6,001 in 2023.

I believe AML intend to use M-B PHEV tech for the Valhalla.

Will that model have an alloy tub (AML built), or carbon fibre (presumably to be made by Multimatic )?

A great looking car, but not very practical for use. Many UK roads are in a shocking condition now, how bad will they be in 2026 ?

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 29th February 14:22

[Jon39]

Here is a summary of how individual manufacturers around the world, are dealing with an EV demand slowdown.

https://archive.li/YXuCJ

[Jon39]

AstonV said:

Aston Martin along with others scaling back EV plans.

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/03/13/ev-euphoria-is-dea...

Many traditional motor manufacturers must have spent huge sums of money, under pressure from governments, to develop their new EV ranges. They now appear to be wondering, whether that R &D expenditure will ever achieve a return.

My understanding is that there were various different groups of early EV buyers;
Business customers; who bought EVs because (here in the UK) 100% of the cost can be written off against tax in year one.
Employee cars; EVs are popular due to very low, 'Benefit in Kind' tax.
Wealthy private owners, keen to try something new.

Here is an article providing a consumers viewpoint.

https://archive.li/ahRD2

I recently came across yet another new aspect. Some British insurers are refusing to offer cover for the newly arrived Chinese EVs.
Apparently the cars are arriving in the UK, but there is no spares support, or any manufacturers' repair guidance instructions. When faced with a damaged car, the insurers imagine provision of a hire car could go on indefinitely.

Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 13th March 16:59

[Jon39]

There are now a few videos, showing internal combustion engines fitted into defunct Teslas.

One funny one, where a V8 engined Tesla S, was taken to a garage by someone playing the part of a car ignoramus, asking for an engine oil change.
On the journey to that garage, they made oil smoke emit from the exhaust, that was observed by puzzled bystanders.

[Jon39]

A look back at what was being said 9 months ago.
We now know that there have been quite a few changes since the article was written, including the Lucid agreement, announced just a few days later.

.............................................................................

Aston Martin electric car plans

On sale now - None
Coming soon - Pure-electric sports car in 2025; electric SUV in 2025, or 2026.

Aston Martin had planned the development of the Rapide-E, an all-electric GT, but that project was sunk with the ousting of former boss Andy Palmer in May 2020, whose brainchild it was, following the brand’s disastrous stock market flotation and financial losses. At the same time, the company also put on hold (or likely cancelled) a reboot of the Lagonda badge as a luxury electric sub-brand.

That allowed Aston to focus on its first SUV, the DBX, which has unsurprisingly proved to be the firm’s most popular and profitable model. Then Aston was able to finalise its hybrid hypercar, the Valkyrie, deliveries of which began in early 2022 (somewhat later than planned and, reportedly, at great expense to the company).

Now the focus can shift to its electrification strategy proper. It no longer has to worry about developing its own electric powertrains, now that Mercedes-Benz has agreed to lend its considerable expertise, as well as its electric chassis underpinnings, in return for a larger slice of Aston Martin shares. More recently, Chinese behemoth Geely, which also owns Volvo and Lotus, has doubled its stake in Aston after owner Lawrence Stroll sold 35m shares, worth £117m. It’s a harmonious agreement as Geely and Mercedes jointly own and develop Smart’s new range of EVs..

Aston’s first plug-in hybrid model, the Valhalla supercar, is due to begin deliveries in 2024 with, according to the firm’s latest boss Tobias Moers, an electrified powertrain option across all product lines by 2026. The company intends that all of its core models will be fully electric by 2030.

[Jon39]

Simpo Two said:

Sorry my adblocker won't let that page load. Is it not based on fact? Reuters are hardly the Daily Mail....

At your service.
See if this works for you John.
https://archive.li/CC2jH

Remember, the UK is leading the world with NetZero.
When the wind blows and the sun shines brightly, around 50% of the UK electricity demand is supplied by low carbon renewable generation.

All this has been achieved by spending £ billions, some of which is craftily concealed within all our electricity bills.
Such a splendid achievement, gives the whole population a warm and congratulatory feeling. [ I might have made that bit up. ]

Unfortunately however, all our efforts do not make one jot of difference, to reducing the total amount of carbon dioxide in the world.

[Jon39]

dbs2000 said:

The Nordics are absolutely flying in fairness to them.

On days with strong wind and sun, the UK can generate 50% renewables, for its population of 67 million.
Therefore having the present wind and sun generating capacity, the UK would be more than 'absolutely flying', if we had the Nordic population numbers.

Norway 5 million
Sweden 10 million
Finland 5 million

Out of interest, does Norway have much hydro power generation? They have some mountainous areas.
Wonder if they have their own version of this, for us to see.

https://grid.iamkate.com/?fbclid=IwAR3OhtYtg8DXWCH...





(Battery Storage shows Nil, because the same generation would be counted twice.)

Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 4th April 10:22

[Jon39]

Hedged said:

As to the stunning first day numbers from Xiaomi, any info on the Chinese charging infrastructure? Tesla involvement perhaps?

I hope that they did not announce, "We are sold out for the next 24 months".
That phrase is trade marked, for the sole use by a well known company.

[Jon39]

Hedged said:

Almost 90,000 EV cars ordered the first day.... to be made by Xiaomi, a Chinese consumer electronics company.

Reminds me of a British consumer electronics company that introduced a car.
However there is a difference. They did not get 90,000 orders on the first day, in fact it was a flop.
The few sold though, later became valuable collectors items.
Expect you can guess the name of that car.

What happens if all 90,000 Xiaomis arrive at a charging station together?
The Chinese Hally Hill might say, "Flight".

[Jon39]

The present windy weather in the UK, might have created a 'net-zero' record.
The electricity demand now, is being met by 75.6% renewable generation.
The balancing electricity cost is minus £21.42 per MWh.

[Jon39]

The Sutton railway station e-bike fire was brought to my attention (presumably the rider intended to take his bike on to a train - where the consequences could have been horrific).


(SHORT VIDEOS)
https://news.sky.com/video/moment-e-bike-bursts-in...

I then discovered further similar incidents;


https://news.sky.com/video/london-e-bike-catches-f...


https://news.sky.com/video/man-fleeing-e-bike-fire...


I did not look any further, but how common are unexpected and sudden, lithium battery fires ?

Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 7th April 19:18