Johnny 550 is Coming!
Discussion
I will answer the V12 question jonby - for now, here comes Johnny........
We are excited too, the Vantage feels a true supercar and is so fun to drive.
Johnny 550 5.0L engine was installed and fired up recently, from first fire the engine both purred like a kitten under the bonnet, and roared with a devilish burble out the tailpipe.
After a run in cycle he went straight to dyno, whilst we didn't need a roller to confirm what seat of the pants suggested was a complete animal, the numbers are entertaining and a real success to all the BR team that built him and got the project to this stage.
Who would of thought such an innocent looking car was such a savage supercar.
here is the raw data from the dyno.
The dyno result here is power at wheels which is not corrected.
Ambient pressure, relative humidity and air temperature were all measured by our own more accurate kit for us to more accurately than dyno provider calculate a correction factor.
Because Johnny 550 is only displacement upgrade currently, and exhaust system booty is to follow next, and because the delta uplift from the exhaust system is fairly well defined already, a prediction of what Johnny 550 will unleash full fat minus twin throttle inlet manifold can be calculated too.
Because we fitted the old 4.3L / non Vantage S exhaust system for this comparison, we removed the primary bricks meaning that this specification is directly comparable to GT4 racing. We wanted this because quite a number of race teams are looking to run this engine in competition as well as road cars. This means the delta from the BR exhaust system is a little less than normal here because we have to take into account that a brick is already missing.
I can then take all these figures and plot like this compared to standard 4.7L.....
The uplift in power and torque from standard 4.7L (redline), to johnny 550 as he is now (blue line) feels mega to drive and is far more uplift in relative terms from factory 4.3L to Factory 4.7L, this is because of the CNC combustion chamber and increased diameter inlet and exhaust valves.
Looking at this graph explains why Johnny feels so insane on the road, so insane that he almost feels like a standard V12V, so i thought i would plot this.....
Already just with displacement change Johnny is equal to V12V up to 5000 rpm. i thought that due to lower weight of Johnny Vs V12V he might pip V12V at power to weight ratio. The standard power to weight ratio of Vantage S is 263.8 BHP per ton, V12V is 290. Johnny at this first performance step change is 303.6 BHP per ton and with exhaust booty will rise to approx 325BHP per ton. When he has the exhaust booty the torque curve from 1000 rpm to redline will exceed V12V up to approx 6000 rpm, and because Johnny will both redline higher than V12V and produce more power, is the reason johnny will take the power to weight ratio, torque and absolute power output crown.
Next update is on Monday when MikeyK will drive him, after that test it is confirmation that the BR exhaust system delivers the numbers predicted here.
Some more sticky tyres might not go a miss too....
We are excited too, the Vantage feels a true supercar and is so fun to drive.
Johnny 550 5.0L engine was installed and fired up recently, from first fire the engine both purred like a kitten under the bonnet, and roared with a devilish burble out the tailpipe.
After a run in cycle he went straight to dyno, whilst we didn't need a roller to confirm what seat of the pants suggested was a complete animal, the numbers are entertaining and a real success to all the BR team that built him and got the project to this stage.
Who would of thought such an innocent looking car was such a savage supercar.
here is the raw data from the dyno.
The dyno result here is power at wheels which is not corrected.
Ambient pressure, relative humidity and air temperature were all measured by our own more accurate kit for us to more accurately than dyno provider calculate a correction factor.
Because Johnny 550 is only displacement upgrade currently, and exhaust system booty is to follow next, and because the delta uplift from the exhaust system is fairly well defined already, a prediction of what Johnny 550 will unleash full fat minus twin throttle inlet manifold can be calculated too.
Because we fitted the old 4.3L / non Vantage S exhaust system for this comparison, we removed the primary bricks meaning that this specification is directly comparable to GT4 racing. We wanted this because quite a number of race teams are looking to run this engine in competition as well as road cars. This means the delta from the BR exhaust system is a little less than normal here because we have to take into account that a brick is already missing.
I can then take all these figures and plot like this compared to standard 4.7L.....
The uplift in power and torque from standard 4.7L (redline), to johnny 550 as he is now (blue line) feels mega to drive and is far more uplift in relative terms from factory 4.3L to Factory 4.7L, this is because of the CNC combustion chamber and increased diameter inlet and exhaust valves.
Looking at this graph explains why Johnny feels so insane on the road, so insane that he almost feels like a standard V12V, so i thought i would plot this.....
Already just with displacement change Johnny is equal to V12V up to 5000 rpm. i thought that due to lower weight of Johnny Vs V12V he might pip V12V at power to weight ratio. The standard power to weight ratio of Vantage S is 263.8 BHP per ton, V12V is 290. Johnny at this first performance step change is 303.6 BHP per ton and with exhaust booty will rise to approx 325BHP per ton. When he has the exhaust booty the torque curve from 1000 rpm to redline will exceed V12V up to approx 6000 rpm, and because Johnny will both redline higher than V12V and produce more power, is the reason johnny will take the power to weight ratio, torque and absolute power output crown.
Next update is on Monday when MikeyK will drive him, after that test it is confirmation that the BR exhaust system delivers the numbers predicted here.
Some more sticky tyres might not go a miss too....
Good progress!
I notice the standard car dynoed below Astons stated figures for the Vantage S
Seems to be a common theme, I guess Aston are quoting figures from bench dynos?
Its annoying that "real" cars don't seem to make AM's figures
Silver lining is I guess once the "booty" is on it will dyno close to the "real" output of a Vanquish/V12VS
Fingers crossed!
I notice the standard car dynoed below Astons stated figures for the Vantage S
Seems to be a common theme, I guess Aston are quoting figures from bench dynos?
Its annoying that "real" cars don't seem to make AM's figures
Silver lining is I guess once the "booty" is on it will dyno close to the "real" output of a Vanquish/V12VS
Fingers crossed!
Edited by mikey k on Friday 20th December 16:04
it will be good to catch up!I'm still grinning 
I had a good look at the graphs that Mike put up yesterday before going over today, I realised;
Adrian and Mike were raving about how Johnny drove, I was still concerned so got Adrian to come with me (not sure what he was going to do from the passenger seat )
No rain so first things first roof down!
Starting him up there is a much more pronounce "bark" and a lovely crackle from the exhaust with a bit of throttle
I set of a bit tentatively with full traction control on expecting to squirm all the way down the road on cold wet tyres.
Surprisingly he just gripped and off we went at no drama, reved it out to about 6k a few times with no issues.
I think Adrian got bored at this point and suggested I rev it ti the still stock redline.
We got some straight road and I floored it, the sound is immense! (I hope we can stay close to it with the other bits going on)
It pulls in a completely linear way right up to the red line and feels like it wants to carry on, strangely the gear changes from the paddles are quicker and smoother even with out the light weight clutch set up (possibly the better balanced engine)
Not once did the traction control light come on (though Adrian thinks it may have been pulling some throttle at the top)
So I got back and felt confident enough to take Bincenzo for a "spin" two grown men giggling like girls
So Bamford Rose have some more work to do before the project is complete but so far it has exceeded expectations and the next stage is going to make it mental.
When I got back we had a long chat about, ASM2 vs ASM3, dyno figures and tyres.
They are going work out the differences between ASM2 vs ASM3 fitted to the V12VS, one main difference is ASM3 has an oil cooler and pump (as does ASM1) we want to reinstate and possible improve on this to keep the gearbox temperatures down.
As I said earlier I was a bit disappointed with the project figures, talking to Bamford Rose it looks like Aston have a history of over stating outputs Vantage S's are making 415-420 and V12 Vanquishes ~ 540 BHP. So Johnny should be very close the new V12VS and Vanquish outputs 
(which was a target I had mentally set)
We all expected the stock tyres to struggle, surprisingly they didn't!) but with the next set of mods it may well be the case.
Not sure what to do about that yet. I could go up a size on the current wheels or got to DBS, V12V wheels, I really don't want to increase the unsprung weight if I can. Lets see what happens with ALL the mods on and dryer roads
I had a good look at the graphs that Mike put up yesterday before going over today, I realised;
- The 4.7 does not work best when reved right out peak torque is 5.5k rpm so I should have bee changing up early
- As Johnny stands (no twin throttle, standard 4.3 headers & cats, stock clutch, stock wheels & tyres) he currently has more torque between 2.7 & 5k rpm than a V12 and his peak torque is only 15Nm lower
- Power is a little down on the V12 across the range at the moment
- Mikes projections for the completed project look a little lower than I expected
Adrian and Mike were raving about how Johnny drove, I was still concerned so got Adrian to come with me (not sure what he was going to do from the passenger seat
)No rain so first things first roof down!
Starting him up there is a much more pronounce "bark" and a lovely crackle from the exhaust with a bit of throttle
I set of a bit tentatively with full traction control on expecting to squirm all the way down the road on cold wet tyres.
Surprisingly he just gripped and off we went at no drama, reved it out to about 6k a few times with no issues.
I think Adrian got bored at this point
and suggested I rev it ti the still stock redline.We got some straight road and I floored it, the sound is immense! (I hope we can stay close to it with the other bits going on)
It pulls in a completely linear way right up to the red line and feels like it wants to carry on, strangely the gear changes from the paddles are quicker and smoother even with out the light weight clutch set up (possibly the better balanced engine)
Not once did the traction control light come on (though Adrian thinks it may have been pulling some throttle at the top)
So I got back and felt confident enough to take Bincenzo for a "spin" two grown men giggling like girls
So Bamford Rose have some more work to do before the project is complete but so far it has exceeded expectations and the next stage is going to make it mental.
When I got back we had a long chat about, ASM2 vs ASM3, dyno figures and tyres.
They are going work out the differences between ASM2 vs ASM3 fitted to the V12VS, one main difference is ASM3 has an oil cooler and pump (as does ASM1) we want to reinstate and possible improve on this to keep the gearbox temperatures down.
As I said earlier I was a bit disappointed with the project figures, talking to Bamford Rose it looks like Aston have a history of over stating outputs
Vantage S's are making 415-420 and V12 Vanquishes ~ 540 BHP. So Johnny should be very close the new V12VS and Vanquish outputs (which was a target I had mentally set)We all expected the stock tyres to struggle, surprisingly they didn't!) but with the next set of mods it may well be the case.
Not sure what to do about that yet. I could go up a size on the current wheels or got to DBS, V12V wheels, I really don't want to increase the unsprung weight if I can. Lets see what happens with ALL the mods on and dryer roads
Edited by mikey k on Thursday 2nd January 16:48
Bincenzo said:
It's easy now she's fallen in lust with Matt from BR......I just tell her Matt has firmly recommended to have whatever it is done. She'll swallow anything. Oh, hang on, didn't mean that!!
Innuendos still flying How's Cockers knob?
Any chance you can post that video (or send it to me?)
Bincenzo said:
Can't see your picture mikey but I've got one that pretty much sums up the day...
I see you refrained from a knob picture Thanks for the vid
here it is!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25369163@N08/11728933...
Edited by mikey k on Friday 3rd January 12:01
Speculatore said:
Really glad you lot are having so much fun in your Astons!!! 
Spoke to Mike your bits should be in from the supplier today!Also did a deal with him to hand over Johnny 550 at the Rockingham track day!
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Some more progress
BR have worked out how to get the ASM2 box upto the same spec cooling as ASM3 on the V12VS
It just means the box has to come out to be modified
Pinnacle ceramic coated headers are on
Once the gearbox is modded it will go back in with the lightened flywheel and clutch
There may be an opportunity to move the mechanical twin throttle linkage on to a dual electronic throttles, which has a few benefits over the mechanical one. So the inlet manifold won't be "beautified" at this point
The monster is growing!
BR have worked out how to get the ASM2 box upto the same spec cooling as ASM3 on the V12VS
It just means the box has to come out to be modified
Pinnacle ceramic coated headers are on
Once the gearbox is modded it will go back in with the lightened flywheel and clutch
There may be an opportunity to move the mechanical twin throttle linkage on to a dual electronic throttles, which has a few benefits over the mechanical one. So the inlet manifold won't be "beautified" at this point
The monster is growing!
Johnny 550 is a development project it is the only 5.0 vantage in existence.
So there has been some development work and some durability testing.
He went to Bamford Rose in October and I gave them a hard end date of end of March as I expected little need of it over the Winter.
I also knew it would need to be fitted in around other peoples services and break downs.
That said I am missing having my car
Future 5.0 engines will roll out quicker as parts will be made in batches rather than single units.
So there has been some development work and some durability testing.
He went to Bamford Rose in October and I gave them a hard end date of end of March as I expected little need of it over the Winter.
I also knew it would need to be fitted in around other peoples services and break downs.
That said I am missing having my car
Future 5.0 engines will roll out quicker as parts will be made in batches rather than single units.
Jon39 said:
A very interesting project Mike.
Is the total cost going to remain secret?
It presumably must be enormous, which leaves me thinking, why not a V12VR instead?
I have probably overlooked something, perhaps the SS3.
Interesting couple of points Is the total cost going to remain secret?
It presumably must be enormous, which leaves me thinking, why not a V12VR instead?
I have probably overlooked something, perhaps the SS3.
The cost to me is not representative of the final package price as it is partly funded by BR and some of the parts are one's with associated tooling costs. I have also specified a few extra parts that push it up (pinnacle headers, twin throttles etc)
I looked at several V12VR and the cheapest I could get in to one is my car plus £60, all were a compromise on my "ideal" spec
ASM3 is essentially ASM2 with revised ratios and an air/oil cooler. We will be fitting a higher spec cooler as a precaution so it will be close to ASM3 spec.
Johnny is costing A LOT less than that!
Had I known about the V12VS and the looming roadster I may have held on for that.
BR will be offering a base 5.0GT4 engine only. Several race teams are waiting to see how Johnny goes and there are 3 road cars on the waiting list.
I think it will be a VERY popular upgrade on a 4.3
rjn21 said:
I'm one of those waiting to see how yours goes before I commit. Down time is critical to me (not necessarily the length), but if I agree that car will be done by x date, I wouldn't be happy at x+y.
I think that if your engine is used to bore out and rebuild to 5L then there is removal, strip, conversion to 5L, rebuild and refit to car time, which when my project was defined and 5L was in production was stated at 8 weeks for that entire process. If a donor engine from BR is used then the engine build can happen off line meaning when the engine is completed and sat beside ramp the car can be given to BR, meaning the time you are without your car is limited to any engine removal and refit time which is about a week or so. As far as I can see.
When its a first of anything and bespoke project, BR engineer to perfection without compromise and will not release it, if it's not perfect (they rejected several parts from suppliers on Johnny due to them not meeting their standard).
When BR have perfected a product and it is 'off the peg' and its a proven part, refit time is short, they hit their deadlines. Blofeld was a bit longer as far as I can see but was the first (therefore needed engineering) new electronic damper control system project.
Johnny is in the same boat.
Mike seems pretty happy to sign up to delivery dates as part of agreeing project.
Gibberish said:
mikey k said:
Yeti's DB9
What happened to that particular engine rebuild story? It was billed by Yeti as "a big deal for the Aston community" and then... nothing. We were all left in the lurch without closure. I feel used and dirty, sucked in by the BR PR machine.
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