Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?
Discussion
I spoke to the owner of a new hybrid car.
He thought he was finished with buying petrol for his motoring, but disappointed when he discovered that was not true.
The car was sold to him as a self charging electric car. There do seem to be more and more adverts using this phrase, giving the impression that charging is somehow done automatically, by the car itself. No more plugging in to charge.
We know what mild hybrid means, but non car enthusiasts have no idea.
Will this be another class action in a few years time?
There are some business successes beginning to appear in the world of EV sports cars.
Perhaps Aston Martin should study these companies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN64wMLyCuY
https://carbuzz.com/news/koenigsegg-still-doesnt-t...
Top end of the market though.
The practical aspect with electric cars seems to need forward planning.
Did you read today, about a UK Police force which bought a fleet of electric cars ?
All went well until they needed charging. No superchargers available at the 'nick'.
A few cars were plugged in to 13 amp sockets, some were left to charge in local supermarket car parks, the remainder left in the station yard with flat batteries.
Project not going too well at present, but they are hoping the experiment will gain some energy soon.
Fortunately they still have the IC cars, otherwise the villains would roam free.
Edited by Jon39 on Wednesday 17th August 18:28
ds666 said:
That's not a problem with EV's just typical poor government related project management and delivery .
Exactly and something that even a 5 year old could anticipate.
I wonder if they might avoid such embarrassing situations, by putting more effort into effective management and less time being obsessed with referendums.
It was recently reported, that the people on a couple of islands are very low on food stocks, because the state run ferry is not running !
SpeckledJim said:
The term is unhelpful and misleading. But surely nobody is so monumentally idiotic as to think their new car doesn’t need any form of fuel or energy.
You may be surprised, but there are plenty of dozy people around.
It is the same people, who when told that gullible has been removed from the latest edition of the Oxford Englush Dictionary, believe it.
To be fair though, some car salesmen describe the self charging system, as being the same as on Formula One cars. That confuses the idiot buyers, because they noticed a few years ago that F1 cars would have to stop at the pits to be refuelled. Now with the self charging systems, they never see stops for fuel, only for fresh tyres.
Interesting that what I thought was just a misleading and clever advertising phrase, has been banned in Norway. Presumably they must feel, that their own idiots must be protected.
Do you remember hearing the comments, that electric cars would gradually become much cheaper, in a similar way to personal computers and mobile phones.
I was not convinced by that reasoning, simply because the large battery forms a significant proportion of the total cost of the car and the those batteries contain various metals, which are continually freely traded in the world markets. Therefore, there is no certainty that the cost of those metals will decline.
I have just read about a small electric car called Honda-e. It is a 2 door super mini, the price now is £37,000.
Almost the same cost as a new (petrol) BMW 3 Series.
We are told to be 'green', so had better try to squeeze the family into the Honda.
On second thoughts though, perhaps.....
Do you think, EVs might continue to be driven, by the upper and middle classes, owners of driveways and charging points ?
Other motorists being permanently left out, because of the prohibitive cost.
What happens then after 2030 ?
Edited by Jon39 on Thursday 25th August 16:43
quench said:
I wonder how much battery life is left in the typical, 8 year old Nissan Leaf?
As a percentage of that 6,000 pounds, what is the cost of a replacement battery?
As a percentage of that 6,000 pounds, what is the cost of a replacement battery?
I know little about electric cars, just enough to realise, that I won't be a 'first adopter'.
If you have battery failure (as some have) on an 8 year old Mercedes E-Class hybrid, be ready to have the car scrapped. Uneconomic repair. Petrol/diesel versions can live not just for 8 years, but decades.
For a Nissan Leaf though, I believe a battery replacement is much simpler and cheaper to do, so they can live on for a second life.
Think there is a YouTube video showing a Leaf battery being changed.
It must presumably depend on battery cost and where it is located in the car.
AstonV said:
LA has banned new gas stations as well. Maybe they will ban cars, make room for more homeless camps.
Have they still got the ban on the prosecution of shop lifters, who only steal up to a few hundred dollars worth of goods.
Who made that decision? Saves having to pay for shopping I suppose and you can do the stealing openly, without the need for oversized secret coat pockets.
If you need to exceed the prosecution limit, you go back later, because the limit is per visit.
Cannot believe this story can be true.
Do you still have any shops trading in California?
With the announcement today by Audi, that they will be a power unit supplier to Formula One in 2026, opens the 100% sustainable, emissions free fuel debate again.
Audi were competing for seven seasons in Formula Electric, but withdrew last year.
Presumably they are 'sending a message', that sustainable fuels in existing internal combustion engines, could be an alternative to EVs.
How are sustainable fuels made ?
Does it involve food crops being grown, but then used to make fuel ?
Is the process of making sustainable fuel complex and expensive ?
Thank you for your comments.
This then raises a question. VW/Audi are in the business of selling cars to make profit. Why would they want to be seen, associated with marketing an out of date vehicle power system, from 2026 onwards ?
Their activity with Formula E was understandable, although calling at the pits halfway through the races to change cars, was perhaps not quite the right marketing message for them.
RobBucks said:
It feels like ultimately Formula 1 is going to move progressively toward ‘sustainable’ power and then Formula E will become redundant. Perhaps that convergence is behind the Audi decision.
It has been suggested (above) that sustainable biofuel (probably made from Jatropha curcas seeds), will never become available to everyday motorists.
So why will Formula One be racing cars powered by obsolete engines, of a type that Audi will not even be selling to their own customers ?
Ken Figenus said:
Jon - ths sounds like internet BS mate. No fleet manager would be so dumb. I can charge my Taycan overnight at home and be ready to prosecute the very next day!!!
'No fleet manager would be so dumb.'
I think the clue must be in the word manager. It seems they did not have anyone doing the managing.
A green (various meanings) part of the Scottish government, arranged for electric police cars to be delivered to various police stations. Extra brownie points for the politicians, so they hoped. They are very busy working on referendums, so there was no time for anyone to even think about charging equipment and it was completely overlooked. It seems running a country must be much like retail - all about the detail, otherwise people are ready to have a good laugh.
quench said:
In an attempt to bring myself up to speed on the whole electric vs. ICE long-term cost thing, I have done some quick internet reading (I know, I know, be careful what you read on the internet).
Result was multiple articles from multiple websites, some sounding rather believable and expert, others not so much, coming to a wonderful consensus that:
- electric cars are definitely cheaper (one article said three to six times cheaper)
- electric cars cost about the same
- electric cars may be more expensive, particularly to repair.
One thing I noted in spite of all this profound agreement, admittedly, was that no one said ICE cars were definitely cheaper. ...
Result was multiple articles from multiple websites, some sounding rather believable and expert, others not so much, coming to a wonderful consensus that:
- electric cars are definitely cheaper (one article said three to six times cheaper)
- electric cars cost about the same
- electric cars may be more expensive, particularly to repair.
One thing I noted in spite of all this profound agreement, admittedly, was that no one said ICE cars were definitely cheaper. ...
Are you referring to purchase costs, or entire ownership costs (say 8 years) ?
( Depreciation, notional financing cost, the lot. )
Volkswagen ID3 ..... Price from incl. VAT £36,195.
Volkswagen Golf .... Price from incl. VAT £25,340.
Yes, by your internet article definition, the EV is definitely cheaper, somewhere between three to six times cheaper.
signed Jon39 (Arithmetic - Year 1 Test, failed). -
Edited by Jon39 on Saturday 27th August 07:42
oilit said:
If this article in the telegraph is to be believed woolly jumpers in the sitting room may be one thing, but a donkey to tow yr EV is an entirely different proposition:-
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs...
( Remember 12ft.io if you cannot read the article. )
Yes, I did read the article, oilit.
Several contributors here, have told us that EVs are far cheaper to own than IC cars (think the high list prices must be misprints), so presumably the article must be ICE propaganda.
Seriously though, I was puzzled by this paragraph in the article.
'The petrol version can travel around 400 miles on a full tank of petrol, which would cost around £50. The electric model only has a range of 290 miles and would need multiple charges to travel 400 miles – this would cost £99 more after October’s electricity price hike.'
Can that be correct? To fill the tank in my car costs more than £50.
.........................
Ken Figenus.
'PS - just got my Corp Tax bill - £0 '
Careful. The envy mob protestors will be glueing themselves to your Taycan !
Everyone except them, must pay more tax.
I have recently seen a noticeable increase in the number of new registration electric cars, in one affluent area of south east England.
By comparison, hardly any seen in a west country city.
I suppose this one person observation, does correspond with what we might expect, when considering the affordability aspect.
Most of those new EVs are not Teslas, although on motorways, Teslas of all ages are probably still the dominant EV make seen.
Have any dates been set in the USA, whereby new IC cars can no longer be sold? Is that set at state, or country level?
Here in the UK, the government have decided on 2030 for no more new IC, then 2035 for no more new IC hybrids.
The European Union have agreed a 5 year extension for the under 10,000 unit manufacturers (an Italian lobby perhaps.)
Have not heard whether the UK will follow with the same extension, to help Aston Martin and others.
It does look as though the motor manufacturers here will probably be ready for those dates, but how all the various categories of car buyers will respond, remains to be seen. Some buyers purposely 'hanging back' and a huge proportion unable to afford EVs.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 29th August 19:22
dbs2000 said:
Tesla 4680 battery now in Model Y.
Wow! The 4680 big breakthrough is now available.
I was interested to know more, so used your link.
'The 4680 batteries have 5 times more energy with 6 times the power and enable a 16% range increase.'
That puzzled me to start with.
5 times the energy; 6 times more power, but after those massive increases, why can the car only travel a little bit further?
Have I misunderstood something?
Simpo Two said:
Quite. What units are the energy and power in?
Don't expect the journo to have any science: 'Carolyn Fortuna (they, them), Ph.D., is a writer, researcher, and educator with a lifelong dedication to ecojustice. ... Carolyn is a small-time investor in Tesla.'
Don't expect the journo to have any science: 'Carolyn Fortuna (they, them), Ph.D., is a writer, researcher, and educator with a lifelong dedication to ecojustice. ... Carolyn is a small-time investor in Tesla.'
Oh well, at least she should have some first hand knowledge of the Tesla autonomous reversing feature.
dbs2000 said:
My post was simply to highlight to the other poster that the tech is ever evolving, being delivered and will get better and better. ...
Sorry David. Certainly not being critical in any way.
I know you enjoy both DBS and EV (long journeys too).
I was simply attempting some humour combining the author being a Tesla shareholder; recent price movements; and an automobile.
The monthly sales of new EVs and PHEVs in the UK, show a strongly increasing rates.
New sales growth is reported by the media, but the relevance to the entire market does not seem to be so widely discussed.
We know the government targets are to ban IC sales in 2030 and PHEVs in 2035.
How soon do you think EVs can represent (say) more than 50% of all cars on UK roads?
The right hand chart shows the progress and forecasts towards that 'goal'. (Government figures.)
For motorists with tight budgets (I have no idea, but under the current circumstances, we seem to be told that it is considerable proportion), so how can they ever afford EVs ?
MG are now amongst the lowest cost EVs (and their whole range, UK sales numbers have climbed dramatically this year).
Are their prices currently being kept low, to rapidly gain market share?
Whether VW is representative of the main market I dont know, but VW EVs seem to be about 50% more expensive than their equivalent size IC models.
Ken Figenus said:
I think they are comparing them to the 21mmx60mm ones and these are 46mmx80mm - so bit of eco maths guff there! I think the point is they are better on many levels - seem to even charge up far faster. Energy density is always the key - especially if you can then reduce the car weight as you need fewer batteries for same range. I'm adding another 4kWh of solar panels but was quoted £2500 for a battery that would store 90p of electricity - no thanks, I'll use the car. Early days...
You are getting too technical for me now.
I was fine with V=IR, but the mystery of electronics deepened after that!
When I look at a PCB, I do wish I could understand everything.
Then there is the mysterious magic of CAN bus.
I have a small solar system for garden topiary. Only a 10w panel and storage is by using duff car batteries. Although those batteries cannot start a car, they can still store electricity. That was an eco tip I read about, from a man whose name is Musk.
It was an interesting project, enabling me to learn a little more about the subject.
Could now scale up, but every year the panels become better and cheaper, so that idea has turned into a never ending waiting game.
I can never forget being so lucky, in avoiding the stigma of becoming an early Sony Betamax adopter. -
Are you ready for the talked about idea, of using everyone's EV to store electricity for the grid?
Think the grid takes back energy from the cars which charged overnight, presumably on a windless day at breakfast surge demand time. Am sure they will remember to leave a little 'juice' in the car, for driving to work.
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