Early Vantages V8V - Time to hold or sell?
Discussion
Now back in the real world...
Unlike the majority of posters on an Aston Martin forum, most families cannot afford to buy a new Tesla, £30k E-Golf etc. So petrol and diesel cars are set to remain running on our roads for decades to come
And while I might buy an electric car to commute, if I’m going to be hooning around the countryside on a weekend I want something that makes some noise. Many years of future motoring in a V8 Vantage for £30k sounds like a bargain and residual values be damned
Unlike the majority of posters on an Aston Martin forum, most families cannot afford to buy a new Tesla, £30k E-Golf etc. So petrol and diesel cars are set to remain running on our roads for decades to come
And while I might buy an electric car to commute, if I’m going to be hooning around the countryside on a weekend I want something that makes some noise. Many years of future motoring in a V8 Vantage for £30k sounds like a bargain and residual values be damned
RobDown said:
Unlike the majority of posters on an Aston Martin forum, most families cannot afford to buy a new Tesla, £30k E-Golf etc. So petrol and diesel cars are set to remain running on our roads for decades to come
But plenty of people can't afford new petrol cars either. And there is no doubt that many new cars are at least hybrid. Petrol cars certainly will last many years - even if they stopped making new ones tomorrow - but I also believe that over time they will become less desirable.I do sometimes wonder what effect this will have on the value cars. I generally buy stuff that is old enough it doesn't depreciate much - if at all - but there is still a fair amount of £s tied up in them. It would be disappointing if the values fell off a cliff edge one day!
True, they cant afford new petrol cars either. But with lots and lots of second hand stock flying around that's what people, currently and in future will buy. Now of course in, say 15 years time, there may be a stock of 10 year old electric cars too. But given the advances in technology and the lifetimes of batteries you would need to be far braver than me to buy one.
So I'm 100% confident that petrol and diesel will still be readily available. And that petrol cars wont have been banned. So we should all still be able to continue with our passion.
I'm actually more worried about self-driving cars. It strikes me that once those are fully established it will only be a matter of time before some bright politician says human-operated vehicles should be banned as too dangerous. But hopefully not for a long, long time
So I'm 100% confident that petrol and diesel will still be readily available. And that petrol cars wont have been banned. So we should all still be able to continue with our passion.
I'm actually more worried about self-driving cars. It strikes me that once those are fully established it will only be a matter of time before some bright politician says human-operated vehicles should be banned as too dangerous. But hopefully not for a long, long time
Most companies agree "peak oil" in 2030. That envisages a decline in pure petrol cars. It's important to realise the massive shift that would need to take place. However it could easily happen.
12 years ago could you imagine spending £600+ on a phone? I think the first iPhone was launched 11 years ago. Things can change and fast.
But, I don't see electric cars taking over outside of cities or certainly in less developed countries for a long time to come. That will of course hit values.
12 years ago could you imagine spending £600+ on a phone? I think the first iPhone was launched 11 years ago. Things can change and fast.
But, I don't see electric cars taking over outside of cities or certainly in less developed countries for a long time to come. That will of course hit values.
rossyl said:
12 years ago could you imagine spending £600+ on a phone?
I still can't.But also remember the 'early adopters' spent over £1000 on phones 30 years ago, which were the size of a brief case, had a 2 hour battery life if you where lucky, and weighed around 10kg.
So manufacturers will need to further refine, and then bring electric cars to the masses which will take a few years yet.
Edited by Manx V8V on Wednesday 24th October 07:44
Manx V8V said:
I still can't.
But also remember the 'early adopters' spent over £1000 on phones 30 years ago, which were the size of a brief case, had a 2 hour battery life if you where lucky, and weighed around 10kg.
So manufacturers will need to further refine, and then bring electric cars to the masses which will take a few years yet.
I had one, you forgot to mention the carry strap for the whole unit. It was like a manbag 25 years before manbags were invented.But also remember the 'early adopters' spent over £1000 on phones 30 years ago, which were the size of a brief case, had a 2 hour battery life if you where lucky, and weighed around 10kg.
So manufacturers will need to further refine, and then bring electric cars to the masses which will take a few years yet.
Edited by Manx V8V on Wednesday 24th October 07:44
Rapid rental said:
I had one, you forgot to mention the carry strap for the whole unit. It was like a manbag 25 years before manbags were invented.
Yes I think i've still got the scars from the shoulder strap of my Motorola 4500!!But in the same way I wonder if we will look back and say OMG we paid xx for a car which only did 250 miles and then needed hours on a charger (I know charging time is already improving with the likes of Tesla Superchargers) but I think we still have a way to go yet.
Edited by Manx V8V on Wednesday 24th October 10:34
My biggest concern would be that we have to rely on the government to put the infrastructure in place for electric cars to be used as per petrol/diesel ones these days (Just think of the charging points required). Lets hope Apple don't do cars, as we all know their charger will be different to everyone else...... That's why I personally think that the current cars will be around for a very very long time. I'm happy to hold on to my V8 as long as possible, I don't even consider selling because it might be worthless in a couple of decades because of electric cars.
There was a very intersting thread on here a while back where someone tried to do a calculation of how much energy a motorway service station would require. I won’t attempt to repeat it (thank goodness).
But if you picture how many thousands of cars travel up the M1 every day. And let’s say their owners don’t want to stop for more than 20 minutes (coffee time) to recharge at the services; we’re talking hundreds/thousands of fast charging points required and a power station. We’re a long way from that
Personally I think the solution is to have electric cars where the batteries can be swapped at the services for fully charged ones. But that requires manufacturers to agree common standards. Again years and years away
But if you picture how many thousands of cars travel up the M1 every day. And let’s say their owners don’t want to stop for more than 20 minutes (coffee time) to recharge at the services; we’re talking hundreds/thousands of fast charging points required and a power station. We’re a long way from that
Personally I think the solution is to have electric cars where the batteries can be swapped at the services for fully charged ones. But that requires manufacturers to agree common standards. Again years and years away
As an owner of a big V12 Aston Martin I sure do hope that big powerful cars drop sharply in value. The only reason I'll sell my DB9 is for something equally exciting to own and drive, if petrol powered sports cars take a big hit in value then that just means I can upgrade to a Vanquish for less money, if they keep dropping until they are almost worthless then I can bag an 812 Superfast for pennies. Bring it on I say.
I realise some people might not like that if they want to sell their Aston to spend the money elsewhere (I sold my DB7 10 years ago to top up the deposit for my first house), but for people like me who are in the high-end sports car game for the long haul I'm okay with it.
However, back to the original topic, I bought a V8V three years ago at the low end of the price range. It was a 2006 in good but not perfect condition; everything worked perfectly but there was some bubbling on the doors, some stone chips, etc. I paid £28000 at a dealer, and a year ago I traded it in at another dealer for £27000, and now I can see similar cars on sale for between £28000 and £30000. I'm pretty sure these cars have bottomed out, prices my fluctuate by +/- 10% or so, but that probably shouldn't worry someone looking at Aston ownership.
I realise some people might not like that if they want to sell their Aston to spend the money elsewhere (I sold my DB7 10 years ago to top up the deposit for my first house), but for people like me who are in the high-end sports car game for the long haul I'm okay with it.
However, back to the original topic, I bought a V8V three years ago at the low end of the price range. It was a 2006 in good but not perfect condition; everything worked perfectly but there was some bubbling on the doors, some stone chips, etc. I paid £28000 at a dealer, and a year ago I traded it in at another dealer for £27000, and now I can see similar cars on sale for between £28000 and £30000. I'm pretty sure these cars have bottomed out, prices my fluctuate by +/- 10% or so, but that probably shouldn't worry someone looking at Aston ownership.
rossyl said:
Most companies agree "peak oil" in 2030. That envisages a decline in pure petrol cars. It's important to realise the massive shift that would need to take place. However it could easily happen.
12 years ago could you imagine spending £600+ on a phone? I think the first iPhone was launched 11 years ago. Things can change and fast.
But, I don't see electric cars taking over outside of cities or certainly in less developed countries for a long time to come. That will of course hit values.
I reckon this cost me £1,200 in 2008 12 years ago could you imagine spending £600+ on a phone? I think the first iPhone was launched 11 years ago. Things can change and fast.
But, I don't see electric cars taking over outside of cities or certainly in less developed countries for a long time to come. That will of course hit values.
I love my V8V so much I'm now not sure I'd even swap it in for a V12V..... Mad though that sounds... There simply isn't another marque that I'd give an AM up for. She (or the next Aston if there is one) will only ever go if I'm in desperate need of the cash it would command... however little that might become....... My Vantage is probably worth around £30k privately (biased opinion obviously), but there is absolutely nothing else out there at that kind of money that interests me whatsoever.... nearest would be at least another £35k on top.... (V12V... obviously)...
We just belong together...
We just belong together...
RobDown said:
There was a very intersting thread on here a while back where someone tried to do a calculation of how much energy a motorway service station would require. I won’t attempt to repeat it (thank goodness).
But if you picture how many thousands of cars travel up the M1 every day. And let’s say their owners don’t want to stop for more than 20 minutes (coffee time) to recharge at the services; we’re talking hundreds/thousands of fast charging points required and a power station. We’re a long way from that
Personally I think the solution is to have electric cars where the batteries can be swapped at the services for fully charged ones. But that requires manufacturers to agree common standards. Again years and years away
I totally agree on the battery swap, makes so much more sense. Rather than petrol stations you'll have battery swap stations. You swap your old one for a new one, and then the old one gets put on charge 'out the back'. Can't see logistically how else you could realistically charge the amount of cars that run through petrol stations. Without doing the maths, if you can fill your tank of petrol/diesel in your car in about 5 minutes and that lasts you 600 miles, what would that be for electric 2-3 hours...., They'd be more people sat at 'battery stations' than at home.But if you picture how many thousands of cars travel up the M1 every day. And let’s say their owners don’t want to stop for more than 20 minutes (coffee time) to recharge at the services; we’re talking hundreds/thousands of fast charging points required and a power station. We’re a long way from that
Personally I think the solution is to have electric cars where the batteries can be swapped at the services for fully charged ones. But that requires manufacturers to agree common standards. Again years and years away
If the government are really serious, they need to be sorting out these basic things now.
Long live the V8 (Or V12 if you got one.....................)
RE: electric cars - your maths assumes that everyone uses them the same as they use petrol cars.
In reality - and you can confirm this with people who own electric cars today, right now - you very very rarely recharge away from home simply because you charge overnight on the driveway meaning you always leave the house with a “full tank”! Public charge points are simply only needed for 200+ mile journeys - when you’ll be taking a break anyway. Not day to day use.
In reality - and you can confirm this with people who own electric cars today, right now - you very very rarely recharge away from home simply because you charge overnight on the driveway meaning you always leave the house with a “full tank”! Public charge points are simply only needed for 200+ mile journeys - when you’ll be taking a break anyway. Not day to day use.
Venturist said:
RE: electric cars - your maths assumes that everyone uses them the same as they use petrol cars.
In reality - and you can confirm this with people who own electric cars today, right now - you very very rarely recharge away from home simply because you charge overnight on the driveway meaning you always leave the house with a “full tank”! Public charge points are simply only needed for 200+ mile journeys - when you’ll be taking a break anyway. Not day to day use.
Its a valid point, but no one really wants to fill up on the motorway due to prices, but they do as they are on a 'long' journey.In reality - and you can confirm this with people who own electric cars today, right now - you very very rarely recharge away from home simply because you charge overnight on the driveway meaning you always leave the house with a “full tank”! Public charge points are simply only needed for 200+ mile journeys - when you’ll be taking a break anyway. Not day to day use.
I've always seen advancements in technology where its 'better' than whats in existence. Currently owning an electric car is for me, not an advancement due to the type of driving and long distance trips.
I know we are going off topic, but I wonder what all the oil companies and petrol stations are thinking about all these electric car ideas !!?
It's 14 min or so. but have a look at this timeline for Petrol V Electric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7k3Mzknm8&t=...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7k3Mzknm8&t=...
My slant on electric cars,,,, it's a short sighted vote winning concept. The technology is not there yet and they are nowhere near carbon friendly either to manufacture or maintain. Hybrids I get, soley electric I don't. We will be shafted as they will make it so expensive to tax, insure and ICE cars. This will be for votes, not the environment but votes at election time. So enjoy them while we can! 
(I wish)
ETA; what about trucks, buses, ships etc? This world is fast becoming an unpleasant place to be.
(I wish)ETA; what about trucks, buses, ships etc? This world is fast becoming an unpleasant place to be.
Edited by macdeb on Wednesday 24th October 16:37
I think some of the facts seen here on electric charging are pretty wide of the mark. The charge time per mile travelled has fallen at a drastic pace in the last few years, and looks set to continue to do so. The Ionity network (operated by Audi, BMW, Ford, Mercedes) has a network of chargers that can deliver power at 350KW.
Currently available batteries are limited to around 150KW, but the VW group has already announced batteries capable of taking the full current by 2020, giving a range of hundreds of miles with a 12 minute charge. Porsche's Taycan is expected to use these chargers to add 400km of range in 15 minutes. 99% of people only drive further than that in a day very occasionally, and they can probably use those 15 minutes for a toilet break.
I'm also not convinced about it being about votes. I don't recall electric vehicle subsidies being discussed at all during the last election. There may have been some pledges about it, but they were completely and utterly drowned out by brexit, austerity, defence, education, etc. Right now it's being driven by the motoring manufacturers as a way around emissions targets, and air quality in towns is a very real issue and will continue to be so, so those emissions rules aren't going anywhere.
I've driven some recent electric cars and they've been impressive; smooth, comfortable and easy to drive. I'll keep the V12 as a toy, but for the family car we use to get around most of the time I can see myself going electric in the next few years.
Currently available batteries are limited to around 150KW, but the VW group has already announced batteries capable of taking the full current by 2020, giving a range of hundreds of miles with a 12 minute charge. Porsche's Taycan is expected to use these chargers to add 400km of range in 15 minutes. 99% of people only drive further than that in a day very occasionally, and they can probably use those 15 minutes for a toilet break.
I'm also not convinced about it being about votes. I don't recall electric vehicle subsidies being discussed at all during the last election. There may have been some pledges about it, but they were completely and utterly drowned out by brexit, austerity, defence, education, etc. Right now it's being driven by the motoring manufacturers as a way around emissions targets, and air quality in towns is a very real issue and will continue to be so, so those emissions rules aren't going anywhere.
I've driven some recent electric cars and they've been impressive; smooth, comfortable and easy to drive. I'll keep the V12 as a toy, but for the family car we use to get around most of the time I can see myself going electric in the next few years.
Regarding quick-changing of batteries, this seems like a dead end to me. Manufacturers like Renault were talking about it a lot a few years ago, but appear to have gone quiet on it. Tesla developed battery changing tech for the model S, and even demonstrated a rig that could swap the battery in a few minutes, but they have also abandoned it in favour of quick-charging.
The problem is that the battery is a very expensive and complicated part of an electric car, and will need to be specified for the car they are in. A tesla model S needs a much larger and higher performance battery than a renault twizzy. There is no way you could possibly standardise on one battery for all cars, even with modular batteries for different capacities stations would need to have multiple battery types in stock, as well as rigs for multiple different sizes and shapes of car. Then manufacturers would need to compromise on the design and packaging of their cars to allow for some standardised quick-change architecture. With charging times approaching 10 minutes I just can't see it happening.
The problem is that the battery is a very expensive and complicated part of an electric car, and will need to be specified for the car they are in. A tesla model S needs a much larger and higher performance battery than a renault twizzy. There is no way you could possibly standardise on one battery for all cars, even with modular batteries for different capacities stations would need to have multiple battery types in stock, as well as rigs for multiple different sizes and shapes of car. Then manufacturers would need to compromise on the design and packaging of their cars to allow for some standardised quick-change architecture. With charging times approaching 10 minutes I just can't see it happening.
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