Db11 replacement

[RichB]

Jon39 said:

<clip> For a long time AML have continuously offered three core Sports/GT cars. There were briefly four...

On the contrary, I would say it's only in recent times that AML have offer a three (or four) car line-up. For most of their existence it was one car in different states of tune, with perhaps a convertible, take it or leave it. DB MkIII crossed with the DB4, Virage crossed with the DB7 and obviously the Vanquish and DB7 were available at the same time. But the multitudes of choice offered are a recent thing.

[AlexT]

Definitely V8.
New seats, slightly refreshed dash with more digital implementation.
The obvious exterior items already noted.

Maybe some suspension enhancements - looks to corner flatter and carry its weight through curves more confidently.

Will set the scene for the Vantage refresh.

Hoping for the best.

[silverspeed]

Any idea on starting price ? I’m guessing £250k specced .

[Jon39]

silverspeed said:

Any idea on starting price ? I’m guessing £250k specced .

We are in the new world of LS ultra-luxury and 40% gross profit margins now Graham.
The recent sold out before launch V12V, was I think about £300,000.

£250k might be the PCP initial payment. -

[Calinours]

Hmmm.

They have been open that under the tutelage of Mr Stroll AM will be shifting to pitch even more upmarket. But will the ‘product’ have what it takes?

Saving development costs by using bought-in MB engines (though no doubt marketed as ‘AM luxury tuned, developed and bespoke’ and whatever other superlatives and synonyms can be found in AML’s already well-thumbed marketing thesaurus..) with slightly tweaked maps and a different exhaust making a different noise…

…then spending whatever cash is saved on flasher touchscreens, revised interior and a light front end facelift plus of course, a good extra dollop of the advertising drivel we have become accustomed to.

No doubt there will also be a decent hope of a bit of F1 stardust raining down on potential orders.

Well, it is certainly a different strategy to the Bez and even Palmer eras. I hope that some of the saved funds and maybe future profit will be directed toward a future which isn’t 100% one of bought in powertrains.

On the ‘new product’ DB12 - will potential customers, once they’ve weaved past the life size Alonso (and of course Lance) displays, and listened to the spiel from the freshly retrained sales guys, then take a long hard look and think yeah looks fab where do I sign..

Or will they ultimately see a £140k base DB11 V8 just with a usual automotive mid life refresh, remap and new badge, and wonder why they are being asked to part with twice the money?

[Minglar]

Calinours said:

Hmmm.

They have been open that under the tutelage of Mr Stroll AM will be shifting to pitch even more upmarket. But will the ‘product’ have what it takes?

Saving development costs by using bought-in MB engines (though no doubt marketed as ‘AM luxury tuned, developed and bespoke’ and whatever other superlatives and synonyms can be found in AML’s already well-thumbed marketing thesaurus..) with slightly tweaked maps and a different exhaust making a different noise…

…then spending whatever cash is saved on flasher touchscreens, revised interior and a light front end facelift plus of course, a good extra dollop of the advertising drivel we have become accustomed to.

No doubt there will also be a decent hope of a bit of F1 stardust raining down on potential orders.

Well, it is certainly a different strategy to the Bez and even Palmer eras. I hope that some of the saved funds and maybe future profit will be directed toward a future which isn’t 100% one of bought in powertrains.

On the ‘new product’ DB12 - will potential customers, once they’ve weaved past the life size Alonso (and of course Lance) displays, and listened to the spiel from the freshly retrained sales guys, then take a long hard look and think yeah looks fab where do I sign..

Or will they ultimately see a £140k base DB11 V8 just with a usual automotive mid life refresh, remap and new badge, and wonder why they are being asked to part with twice the money?

Good post Calinours. Sadly, my personal view is that ultimately it will probably be the latter. It just seems to me that all this “ultra luxury” nonsense means little more than purely ramping up the ASPs on all models. And if the product isn’t comparable to peers at the same price level it could end up being a costly strategy. Don’t get me wrong. I want AM to succeed and the video of the new car (DB12) looked pretty good to me. But this current strategy will bring with it awkward pricing and quality comparisons to Bentley, Ferrari, and RR to name but a few. I still think that ultimately the future of AML will only be secure if they are able to find a larger parent company to take the reins, and ultimately provide the investment and financial backstop which are both critical in modern automotive production. We shall see.

Best Regards

Minglar

[GT3ZZZ]

Calinours said:

Hmmm.

I hope that some of the saved funds and maybe future profit will be directed toward a future which isn’t 100% one of bought in powertrains.

Unfortunately the future looks like no powertrains at all, at least of the combustion engine variety. Can't see any development going into new in house engines when they would have such a short life before they're banned.

[Jon39]

Anyone who is new to this forum, might perhaps consider our comments to be negative, sceptical and perhaps disrespectful.

However, I think what we have observed in the past, particularly during the Lawrence Stroll era, has made us expect anything 'over the horizon', to be somewhat over hyped.

For now, let's try to forget that most unfortunate slip of the tongue, "Let me be crystal-clear, black-and-white: we do not need money”.  Perhaps LS might have just thought £650 million is only loose change, not money.

Mr. Stroll has already described the revised sports cars to us.
"The alterations will be so drastic that they will be effectively, all-new cars. There's no similarity at all to the current cars, except for 'some carryover' on the rear end.

There you are then.
Could those development cars in the spy shots, be trick prototypes ?
DB12s disguised within DB11 exteriors.

[Agent57]

It is common to test new cars by disguising them as old cars.

[Jon39]

RichB said:

Jon39 said:

<clip> For a long time AML have continuously offered three core Sports/GT cars. There were briefly four...

On the contrary, I would say it's only in recent times that AML have offer a three (or four) car line-up. For most of their existence it was one car in different states of tune, with perhaps a convertible, take it or leave it. DB MkIII crossed with the DB4, Virage crossed with the DB7 and obviously the Vanquish and DB7 were available at the same time. But the multitudes of choice offered are a recent thing.

You caught me there Richard.

Reading my words again, I went wrong with, 'long time'.
To be correct, I should of course have written, 'since 2010'.

Could I try an excuse ?
My gransons might call 2010 a long time ago. To them it was, a before we were born period, written about in history books.

Yes, interesting to think about (mostly) there only being a one model range. Even Morgan now offer a three model choice. Not sure if they had more than one during the Sixties.

[AdamV12V]

GT3ZZZ said:

Calinours said:

Hmmm.

I hope that some of the saved funds and maybe future profit will be directed toward a future which isn’t 100% one of bought in powertrains.

Unfortunately the future looks like no powertrains at all, at least of the combustion engine variety. Can't see any development going into new in house engines when they would have such a short life before they're banned.

Unless.... AM shifts it's production to the EU... With the new EU decision that cars can be made beyond 2035 with ICE engines as long as they only run on synth fuel that is what I would do if I was AML CEO.

ICE and AML are inseparable and so he should do what is now necessary to continue the core AM brand. I would turn Gaydon into Lagonda only factory, and launch ultra luxury EV models under that name, as for Lagonda it works IMHO

Then continue to make big capacity synthetic fuel ICE AM cars in EU and sell them wherever allowed, to compete with the ICE models that Ferrari and Lambo will now continue to make...

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 31st March 18:56

[RichB]

Jon39 said:

RichB said:

Jon39 said:

<clip> For a long time AML have continuously offered three core Sports/GT cars. There were briefly four...

On the contrary, I would say it's only in recent times that AML have offer a three (or four) car line-up. For most of their existence it was one car in different states of tune, with perhaps a convertible, take it or leave it. DB MkIII crossed with the DB4, Virage crossed with the DB7 and obviously the Vanquish and DB7 were available at the same time. But the multitudes of choice offered are a recent thing.

You caught me there Richard.

Reading my words again, I went wrong with, 'long time'.
To be correct, I should of course have written, 'since 2010'.

Could I try an excuse ?
My gransons might call 2010 a long time ago. To them it was, a before we were born period, written about in history books.

Yes, interesting to think about (mostly) there only being a one model range. Even Morgan now offer a three model choice. Not sure if they had more than one during the Sixties.

[Calinours]

Ahhh, but for those halcyon days of yore (as seen by Jons grandkids) when a V8 Vantage could get a new engine, new suspension, more power and a new dashboard but was still a V8 Vantage, or when a DB9 got a front end restyle, a new dash, more power but was still, in the end, a DB9

[john ryan]

[quote=AdamV12V]

Unless.... AM shift's it's

Apostrophe overload there. Not nice. Irrelevant to Aston topic, of course

[GT3ZZZ]

AdamV12V said:

Unless.... AM shift's it's production to the EU... With the new EU decision that cars can be made beyond 2035 with ICE engines as long as they only run on synth fuel that is what I would do if I was AML CEO.

ICE and AML are inseparable and so he should do what is now necessary to continue the core AM brand. I would turn Gaydon into Lagonda only factory, and launch ultra luxury EV models under that name, as for Lagonda it works IMHO

Then continue to make big capacity synthetic fuel ICE AM cars in EU and sell them wherever allowed, to compete with the ICE models that Ferrari and Lambo will now continue to make...

It would be nice but synthetic fuel will make 102RON look very cheap and likely only available in a very few outlets. Can't see it happening for daily driving cars, you'll probably only be able to fill up at a racetrack.

[AdamV12V]

john ryan said:

AdamV12V said:

Unless.... AM shift's it's

Apostrophe overload there. Not nice. Irrelevant to Aston topic, of course

Quite correct, my humble apologies. retired and starting on the G&T early now the clocks have gone forward!

Now corrected.

Edited by AdamV12V on Friday 31st March 19:03

[Simpo Two]

Calinours said:

Ahhh, but for those halcyon days of yore (as seen by Jons grandkids) when a V8 Vantage could get a new engine, new suspension, more power and a new dashboard but was still a V8 Vantage, or when a DB9 got a front end restyle, a new dash, more power but was still, in the end, a DB9

I thought you were going to say '...when a V8 Vantage could get a new engine, new suspension, more power, a pair of new boots, a bag of chips and change out of a shilling'

[Calinours]

Simpo Two said:

Calinours said:

Ahhh, but for those halcyon days of yore (as seen by Jons grandkids) when a V8 Vantage could get a new engine, new suspension, more power and a new dashboard but was still a V8 Vantage, or when a DB9 got a front end restyle, a new dash, more power but was still, in the end, a DB9

I thought you were going to say '...when a V8 Vantage could get a new engine, new suspension, more power, a pair of new boots, a bag of chips and change out of a shilling'

aye, ‘appen as not.

Eee, we ‘ad it proper tough. Times were ‘ard. Ah thinks back t’mid noughties - when yer could ‘ave an all new Aston with a proper Aston V8 lump fer 80 grand, or a full size ‘un with a proper Aston V12 lump fer just £120 grand!

Now that were proper luxury!

If yer tell that t’these kids today, they wont believe it…

Edited by Calinours on Saturday 1st April 11:01

[Dewi 2]

Calinours said:

aye, ‘appen as not.

Eee, we ‘ad it proper tough. Times were ‘ard. Ah thinks back t’mid noughties - when yer could ‘ave a proper all new Aston with a Aston V8 lump fer 80 grand, or a bigger one with an Aston V12 lump fer £120k

Now that we’re proper luxury!

If yer tell that t’these kids today, they wont believe it…

And don't forget trudging through 3 feet of snow in early 1963, wearing boots made of string.
My first car was a £365 Mini Cooper.
Paid for with threepenny bits, florins and shillings. Times were very 'ard.
Some tell me, it is now worth £30,000 in new fangled online banking money.

We were taught then, to take care of possessions and keep them.
Probably a most strange and peculiar concept now, because when you throw away a nearly new iPhone, you are allowed to buy a new £1,500 iPhone, to show your friends (who would you believe it, still have the 2022 model), then repeat again next year and the year after.

Excuse me, I must go, there is a telephone call coming in on my Nokia 3310 (original).

Edited by Dewi 2 on Saturday 1st April 10:47

[LTP]

Calinours said:

aye, ‘appen as not.

Eee, we ‘ad it proper tough. Times were ‘ard. Ah thinks back t’mid noughties - when yer could ‘ave an all new Aston with a proper Aston V8 lump fer 80 grand, or a full size ‘un with a proper Aston V12 lump fer just £120 grand!

Now that were proper luxury!

If yer tell that t’these kids today, they wont believe it…

....and at this point, dear reader, the thread descended into a parody of the Monty Python "Four Yorkshiremen" sketch until Scrump got annoyed and pruned it wi' t' sheep shears


I didn't realise how appropriate the participants' dress was in the original sketch - they were probably AMOC members