DB9 for the day! What's the thought process on purchasing?
Discussion
Jay_Davis said:
So, you took a sample size of ONE and came to a conclusion. Good for you. Not a statistics major apparently.
Is it really that perplexing to understand the limitations of what you can learn from a single 6+ year old car, with an unknown history (and apparently not well maintained)?
What a fantastic response! Is it really that perplexing to understand the limitations of what you can learn from a single 6+ year old car, with an unknown history (and apparently not well maintained)?
Clearly you weren't part of your school debating society perhaps you belonged to the local church one
Let me repsond to this:
1). A large number of people base their opinons of cars on what they read in the magazines. On PH you'll come across loads of people with massively entrenched views on cars they have never driven. So the question becomes do you believe that the magazines that write up about cars base their opinion on a statistically relevant sample? Even taking into account things like this:
http://ca.jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
Magazines only tend to drive a small handful of cars and their initial impression is based on ONE car.
2). You raise an interesting point with regards to the purchasing decision. Typically, how many cars do you drive before arriving at a conclusion? 2?, 5? 10? Or do you actually drive a statistically relevant sample? Personally, if buying new, I'd drive only one car and base my decision on the basis of that drive, if buying second hand it might be more but after 2 or 3, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't try any more.
3). I thought I'd been quite clear with the initial line of my original post
4). Even taking into account that the car was 5+ years old (my statistics major showing here)
, there were things that I didn't like considering the cost. Is it really that hard to understand that I find rust bubbles, lots of plastic and poor touch points unacceptable in a car that costs so much money? If you don't; then that's fine. It's only my opinion. Live and let live - there's no need to be offended by the fact that I have a different opinion to you - have a nice day!Edited by J-P on Thursday 17th February 08:54
I wasn't going to respond to this thread as it is a typical troll thread with someone essentially posting "I had a drive in a really crap example of the car that you own - and do you know what - it was crap. It is obvious to me that all the cars made by this manufacturer must be crap and the owners must be complete tw*ts." Clearly this is a wind up and most owners of this "crap" car really have no interest in the OP's opinion. Of course he is entitled to that opinion, has no intention of buying the "crap" car, but seems to like an argument. He has been given some good advice by some very polite replies in the posts above, but continues as if his opinion is the only valid one to have.
In answer to the original question that the OP posed "what is the thought process on purchasing?":
Most individuals in the fortunate position to purchase a new DB9, by definition will be in a position to choose from a very wide range of vehicles. Indeed they will have probably owned a lot of very high end cars from a variety of manufacturers that you have mentioned in this thread. Having owned these cars, and not just had the experience of a day's experience of very poor 6 year old example, they will have formed a considered opinion based on their ownership experience. This will include a wide range of factors the priority of which will vary from individual to individual. The quality and performance of the car is likely to be high on this list together with the dealer experience etc. On choosing to purchase their DB9 they will have probably tried a very good example as they would have walked away from a ropey 6 year old. The question to ask to see if they were satisfied overall might be something like "given the wide choice of available cars at £110k, would you buy another Aston Martin. If so why? If not, why not?"
Remember if you are buying a 6yr old car that has been poorly maintained and is therefore apparently good value at £35k you cannot really compare it to a new one at £110k. You have to compare it to other cars available at that price point. If you want to know what a £110k car is like, go try one with that sticker price in the window. There will be a difference.
In answer to the original question that the OP posed "what is the thought process on purchasing?":
Most individuals in the fortunate position to purchase a new DB9, by definition will be in a position to choose from a very wide range of vehicles. Indeed they will have probably owned a lot of very high end cars from a variety of manufacturers that you have mentioned in this thread. Having owned these cars, and not just had the experience of a day's experience of very poor 6 year old example, they will have formed a considered opinion based on their ownership experience. This will include a wide range of factors the priority of which will vary from individual to individual. The quality and performance of the car is likely to be high on this list together with the dealer experience etc. On choosing to purchase their DB9 they will have probably tried a very good example as they would have walked away from a ropey 6 year old. The question to ask to see if they were satisfied overall might be something like "given the wide choice of available cars at £110k, would you buy another Aston Martin. If so why? If not, why not?"
Remember if you are buying a 6yr old car that has been poorly maintained and is therefore apparently good value at £35k you cannot really compare it to a new one at £110k. You have to compare it to other cars available at that price point. If you want to know what a £110k car is like, go try one with that sticker price in the window. There will be a difference.
GlynV8 said:
I wasn't going to respond to this thread as it is a typical troll thread with someone essentially posting "I had a drive in a really crap example of the car that you own - and do you know what - it was crap. It is obvious to me that all the cars made by this manufacturer must be crap and the owners must be complete tw*ts." Clearly this is a wind up and most owners of this "crap" car really have no interest in the OP's opinion. Of course he is entitled to that opinion, has no intention of buying the "crap" car, but seems to like an argument. He has been given some good advice by some very polite replies in the posts above, but continues as if his opinion is the only valid one to have.
In answer to the original question that the OP posed "what is the thought process on purchasing?":
Most individuals in the fortunate position to purchase a new DB9, by definition will be in a position to choose from a very wide range of vehicles. Indeed they will have probably owned a lot of very high end cars from a variety of manufacturers that you have mentioned in this thread. Having owned these cars, and not just had the experience of a day's experience of very poor 6 year old example, they will have formed a considered opinion based on their ownership experience. This will include a wide range of factors the priority of which will vary from individual to individual. The quality and performance of the car is likely to be high on this list together with the dealer experience etc. On choosing to purchase their DB9 they will have probably tried a very good example as they would have walked away from a ropey 6 year old. The question to ask to see if they were satisfied overall might be something like "given the wide choice of available cars at £110k, would you buy another Aston Martin. If so why? If not, why not?"
Remember if you are buying a 6yr old car that has been poorly maintained and is therefore apparently good value at £35k you cannot really compare it to a new one at £110k. You have to compare it to other cars available at that price point. If you want to know what a £110k car is like, go try one with that sticker price in the window. There will be a difference.
Glyn I agree with you entirely - I'm not saying the car I drove is representative. And yes there were issues with this car that I wouldn't expect most owners to have experienced but nonetheless it did cost more than £100k new and it does have poor quality parts in it, which presumably regardless of how well cared for the car is, any 2005 car will have - I've already said both that I hope new ones are better and acknowldeged that I've seen some photos and the interior does look better - doesn't get away from the Ford / Volvo bits though - as for the rest of the experience, I'll happily concede that owners' cars are far superior!In answer to the original question that the OP posed "what is the thought process on purchasing?":
Most individuals in the fortunate position to purchase a new DB9, by definition will be in a position to choose from a very wide range of vehicles. Indeed they will have probably owned a lot of very high end cars from a variety of manufacturers that you have mentioned in this thread. Having owned these cars, and not just had the experience of a day's experience of very poor 6 year old example, they will have formed a considered opinion based on their ownership experience. This will include a wide range of factors the priority of which will vary from individual to individual. The quality and performance of the car is likely to be high on this list together with the dealer experience etc. On choosing to purchase their DB9 they will have probably tried a very good example as they would have walked away from a ropey 6 year old. The question to ask to see if they were satisfied overall might be something like "given the wide choice of available cars at £110k, would you buy another Aston Martin. If so why? If not, why not?"
Remember if you are buying a 6yr old car that has been poorly maintained and is therefore apparently good value at £35k you cannot really compare it to a new one at £110k. You have to compare it to other cars available at that price point. If you want to know what a £110k car is like, go try one with that sticker price in the window. There will be a difference.
J-P said:
I agree - the point I'm making is not about whether any car is worth paying more than £100k for - what I'm saying is this:
You have to remember that AM was part of the Ford PAG at that time. The Volvo mirrors are now gone. The Rapide now has nice metal seat buttons. The stalks are the bit that still offends.moveover said:
... the cars are let down by the intrusion of really poor quality switch-gear from Volvos / Fords. The prime example of this is the key fob on earlier cars. It smacks of AM running out of money at the development stage and bodging the last bit...
Which to me isn't acceptable on a £100k +car. I accept that it is to other people.As for the old key, they fixed it. Bentleys still have the same keys as Golfs, the same gear selector gates as Audis. The Gallardo's interior is full of Audi bits.
Give Aston some slack.
Zod said:
You have to remember that AM was part of the Ford PAG at that time. The Volvo mirrors are now gone. The Rapide now has nice metal seat buttons. The stalks are the bit that still offends.
As for the old key, they fixed it. Bentleys still have the same keys as Golfs, the same gear selector gates as Audis. The Gallardo's interior is full of Audi bits.
Give Aston some slack.
Fine by me, Zod. I'll have a go in a proper one.As for the old key, they fixed it. Bentleys still have the same keys as Golfs, the same gear selector gates as Audis. The Gallardo's interior is full of Audi bits.
Give Aston some slack.
Regards
J-P
Balloonist said:
I two sugest you don't buy a DB9 J-P, best stick with a 996 Turbo.
Our DB9 Volante is such a sh*t car, really nasty place to be, we all wish we'd just bought a volvo instead.
O-well live and learn.
Genius Our DB9 Volante is such a sh*t car, really nasty place to be, we all wish we'd just bought a volvo instead.
O-well live and learn.
In my defence I did also write this:
J-P said:
I get that I should have posted something more reasonable. Michael was spot on when he said I shouldn't work in the diplomatic Corp, I don't have that skill set. I apologise if I've upset anybody on here and I'm gutted that a car that I'd rate as the most beautiful car in the world (alongside the Alfa 8C) didn't float my boat. But I am pleased that there's an Aston community that loves and treasures this car as the car world would be a lot worse off without it.
Cheers
J-P
Cheers
J-P
Hey, I was just having a little bit of fun, glad you took it that way.I've been in all the usual suspects, 430's, Turbos S, Lambos I like them all and would never call any of them crap, I guess if you don't want a racier car then you have the Continental and the Aston.
Everyone I've met absolutly luuves the Aston, even the hardcore GT3 race guys really get the car, which suprised me.
I think its simply a case of different strokes...
Maybe you need to take a new one out?
P.S. I believe taking the roof off helps as you don't demand scapel sharp anything, you just want to cruise.
Balloonist said:
Hey, I was just having a little bit of fun, glad you took it that way.I've been in all the usual suspects, 430's, Turbos S, Lambos I like them all and would never call any of them crap, I guess if you don't want a racier car then you have the Continental and the Aston.
Everyone I've met absolutly luuves the Aston, even the hardcore GT3 race guys really get the car, which suprised me.
I think its simply a case of different strokes...
Maybe you need to take a new one out?
P.S. I believe taking the roof off helps as you don't demand scapel sharp anything, you just want to cruise.
People believe what they read on the internet too, doesn't mean its a good idea. As a matter of fact, it seems that people get most of their information nowadays from unreliable or biased sources. Doesn't mean I have to.
Even with magazines, they are usually driving new cars. That takes a whole lot of variability out of the equation. Not to mention you usually have multiple magazines reviewing the car, which means multiple people evaluating multiple cars at multiple locations. Still won't buy a car based on a magazine. Might add a car to the list to look at, but certainly isn't part of the final decision.
Since its obvious you're never going to be happy with any Aston, why don't you go drive a 1976 Corvette with the 180 hp emission choked engine that's been sitting in a field rotting for 30 years and then go the Corvette Forum and tell them how crappy all Corvettes are.
The things some people do just to get attention.
Even with magazines, they are usually driving new cars. That takes a whole lot of variability out of the equation. Not to mention you usually have multiple magazines reviewing the car, which means multiple people evaluating multiple cars at multiple locations. Still won't buy a car based on a magazine. Might add a car to the list to look at, but certainly isn't part of the final decision.
Since its obvious you're never going to be happy with any Aston, why don't you go drive a 1976 Corvette with the 180 hp emission choked engine that's been sitting in a field rotting for 30 years and then go the Corvette Forum and tell them how crappy all Corvettes are.
The things some people do just to get attention.
J-P said:
What a fantastic response!
Clearly you weren't part of your school debating society perhaps you belonged to the local church one
Let me repsond to this:
1). A large number of people base their opinons of cars on what they read in the magazines. On PH you'll come across loads of people with massively entrenched views on cars they have never driven. So the question becomes do you believe that the magazines that write up about cars base their opinion on a statistically relevant sample? Even taking into account things like this:
http://ca.jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
Magazines only tend to drive a small handful of cars and their initial impression is based on ONE car.
2). You raise an interesting point with regards to the purchasing decision. Typically, how many cars do you drive before arriving at a conclusion? 2?, 5? 10? Or do you actually drive a statistically relevant sample? Personally, if buying new, I'd drive only one car and base my decision on the basis of that drive, if buying second hand it might be more but after 2 or 3, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't try any more.
3). I thought I'd been quite clear with the initial line of my original post
4). Even taking into account that the car was 5+ years old (my statistics major showing here), there were things that I didn't like considering the cost. Is it really that hard to understand that I find rust bubbles, lots of plastic and poor touch points unacceptable in a car that costs so much money? If you don't; then that's fine. It's only my opinion. Live and let live - there's no need to be offended by the fact that I have a different opinion to you - have a nice day!
Clearly you weren't part of your school debating society perhaps you belonged to the local church one
Let me repsond to this:
1). A large number of people base their opinons of cars on what they read in the magazines. On PH you'll come across loads of people with massively entrenched views on cars they have never driven. So the question becomes do you believe that the magazines that write up about cars base their opinion on a statistically relevant sample? Even taking into account things like this:
http://ca.jalopnik.com/5760248/how-ferrari-spins
Magazines only tend to drive a small handful of cars and their initial impression is based on ONE car.
2). You raise an interesting point with regards to the purchasing decision. Typically, how many cars do you drive before arriving at a conclusion? 2?, 5? 10? Or do you actually drive a statistically relevant sample? Personally, if buying new, I'd drive only one car and base my decision on the basis of that drive, if buying second hand it might be more but after 2 or 3, if I didn't like it, I wouldn't try any more.
3). I thought I'd been quite clear with the initial line of my original post
4). Even taking into account that the car was 5+ years old (my statistics major showing here)
, there were things that I didn't like considering the cost. Is it really that hard to understand that I find rust bubbles, lots of plastic and poor touch points unacceptable in a car that costs so much money? If you don't; then that's fine. It's only my opinion. Live and let live - there's no need to be offended by the fact that I have a different opinion to you - have a nice day!Edited by J-P on Thursday 17th February 08:54
J-P said:
Sorry don't get your argument - if you don't think this is an acceptable finish for a 100k carTell me what is ? If you can't then price is irrelevant - you just don't like the interior which is fine but it's a minority view - I love the interior with the exception of the sat nav - which you have not mentioned which is strange as it is ,Volvo tat. -although the way it comes out of the wooden facia is magic .The light switch is aluminium/aluminium effect -can't tell which - and is an efficient elegant design .It's the same design as many other cars (presumably because it works well) but so is the shape of the steering wheel ?
I only read page 1 - here is my take:
I was looking to spend 50-55k on a car last summer. I love the looks of recent Astons so test drove a couple MY2005's at a dealer (non-main agent) that sells a lot of Astons and other high end stuff. My take was this:
Both cars I drove had an upgraded stereo system which I found was much worse than my (then) BMW550 business system in quality. On one of the cars the dash leather was coming away from thw windscreen slightly (which would have been sorted in any deal) but both creaked and rattled a fair bit which I thought was unacceptable. The ride and handling was poor imho on poor roads admittedly although the engine was very good. I was disappointed unfortunately even though I really wanted to like it - the car is a very handsome car indeed. A 56 plate car that I didn't drive but sat in seemed to be much better quality though. In the end after testing R8 V8 and so on I ended up with a GTR go figure which feels much better made, with much more feel even though its no limousine in comfort terms. Of course the performance is another league than either - but was not the deciding factor by any means!
I do feel an Aston is in my future, and hope that the cars I saw were not a benchmark for the model and age otherwise I will be staying away for a while! Its such a pity because the looks are exquisite imho.
I do not mean to cause any offence or irritation to owners - I was very much up for Aston ownership but just couldn't find enough positives to follow through. I guess I understand where the OP is coming from, hopefully we were both unlucky.
Imho, dyor.
I was looking to spend 50-55k on a car last summer. I love the looks of recent Astons so test drove a couple MY2005's at a dealer (non-main agent) that sells a lot of Astons and other high end stuff. My take was this:
Both cars I drove had an upgraded stereo system which I found was much worse than my (then) BMW550 business system in quality. On one of the cars the dash leather was coming away from thw windscreen slightly (which would have been sorted in any deal) but both creaked and rattled a fair bit which I thought was unacceptable. The ride and handling was poor imho on poor roads admittedly although the engine was very good. I was disappointed unfortunately even though I really wanted to like it - the car is a very handsome car indeed. A 56 plate car that I didn't drive but sat in seemed to be much better quality though. In the end after testing R8 V8 and so on I ended up with a GTR go figure which feels much better made, with much more feel even though its no limousine in comfort terms. Of course the performance is another league than either - but was not the deciding factor by any means!
I do feel an Aston is in my future, and hope that the cars I saw were not a benchmark for the model and age otherwise I will be staying away for a while! Its such a pity because the looks are exquisite imho.
I do not mean to cause any offence or irritation to owners - I was very much up for Aston ownership but just couldn't find enough positives to follow through. I guess I understand where the OP is coming from, hopefully we were both unlucky.
Imho, dyor.
My V8 Vantage is a 2010MY and I have a good friend who has a very early one from late 2005. Park them side by side and they look very similar. But sitting in them or driving them there does seem to be a very significant diffrence. It seems AM have done a great deal to continually develop and improve the cars each year.
Jp. Not sure what you do at Aviva but I can assure you I will think less of their brand due to your postings.
You have a position of authority (head of Channels??) yet have set about to wind up AM owners, those that aspire to DB9 ownership, and those that just love the brand.
You sir are a cock. As my nan used to say, "if you've nothing nice to say, say nothing".
Simond s
I don't think it is necessary to call anyone a "cock".
Perhaps Aston improved things along the way because of a degree of negative feedback from owners and disappointed prospective owners alike who gave their honest opinion instead of just sitting on an Aston board and saying 'everything is perfect and we love the cars regardless'? Healthy debate and feedback for any manufacturer is key to their success imho. You did yourself no favours with that remark to the OP. Could he have been more constructive in the beginning? Maybe - but honest feedback should be accepted and appreciated. I should know, I drive a humble Nissan MaxPower rocket according to some
I don't think it is necessary to call anyone a "cock".
Perhaps Aston improved things along the way because of a degree of negative feedback from owners and disappointed prospective owners alike who gave their honest opinion instead of just sitting on an Aston board and saying 'everything is perfect and we love the cars regardless'? Healthy debate and feedback for any manufacturer is key to their success imho. You did yourself no favours with that remark to the OP. Could he have been more constructive in the beginning? Maybe - but honest feedback should be accepted and appreciated. I should know, I drive a humble Nissan MaxPower rocket according to some
Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff