Andy Palmer - gone
Discussion
Jon39 said:
My own comments Jon, about the Roma, only refer to the external body shape, not any of the internal design, or the front grille.
Imagine Marek Reichmann had drawn that shape body for the new Vantage.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 14th September 16:36
lukeharding said:
Jon39 said:
My own comments Jon, about the Roma, only refer to the external body shape, not any of the internal design, or the front grille.
Imagine Marek Reichmann had drawn that shape body for the new Vantage.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 14th September 16:36
I am not saying there is anything wrong with the new Vantage.
The early 'rumblings' on the new Vantage PH topic have now been confirmed by AML, that sales numbers 'have not met expectations', so we must therefore presumably conclude, that some aspects are putting off a number of prospective buyers. It could be just a few things, but we don't know.
I was attracted to the Roma external design (not the car itself), because it instantly looked like an Aston Martin. Something mentioned by many of the reviewers. You my feel it has a more understated visual appearance than the new Vantage, an historic Aston Martin attribute.
I have been thinking about why i would not consider a new Vantage and what would make me change my mind. First how about a Vantage S with a hp increase(AMG GTR engine.) larger carbon bonnet vents, bigger style wheels and nice exhaust exits and some carbon brakes (not sure if they are an option now?) Flip up navigation, perhaps this would do it.
cayman-black said:
I have been thinking about why i would not consider a new Vantage and what would make me change my mind. First how about a Vantage S with a hp increase(AMG GTR engine.) larger carbon bonnet vents, bigger style wheels and nice exhaust exits and some carbon brakes (not sure if they are an option now?) Flip up navigation, perhaps this would do it.
But only when you have saved up enough money according to Mr Simon Nunney 
As I keep saying ......
Aston Martin need new customers ( not necessarily young) but new customers!
The great British public do love the brand, however, the perception of the owners is not so good!
Gammons, budleigh Salterton’s , little Nikki Toms trying to be James Bond, brogues etc etc etc!
Until AML rid themselves of this noose round their necks new owners ( target audience) will not buy the amount of new cars the company needs!
It will take time, but the likes of Mr Zagato really do need to keep their cheque books firmly shut, and only open them at Nikki Mee’s establishment!
That way the general public and car buyers perception of a stereotypical Aston owner will change, a change AML desperately need
Aston Martin need new customers ( not necessarily young) but new customers!
The great British public do love the brand, however, the perception of the owners is not so good!
Gammons, budleigh Salterton’s , little Nikki Toms trying to be James Bond, brogues etc etc etc!
Until AML rid themselves of this noose round their necks new owners ( target audience) will not buy the amount of new cars the company needs!
It will take time, but the likes of Mr Zagato really do need to keep their cheque books firmly shut, and only open them at Nikki Mee’s establishment!
That way the general public and car buyers perception of a stereotypical Aston owner will change, a change AML desperately need
Jon39 said:
lukeharding said:
Jon39 said:
My own comments Jon, about the Roma, only refer to the external body shape, not any of the internal design, or the front grille.
Imagine Marek Reichmann had drawn that shape body for the new Vantage.
Edited by Jon39 on Monday 14th September 16:36
I am not saying there is anything wrong with the new Vantage.
The early 'rumblings' on the new Vantage PH topic have now been confirmed by AML, that sales numbers 'have not met expectations', so we must therefore presumably conclude, that some aspects are putting off a number of prospective buyers. It could be just a few things, but we don't know.
I was attracted to the Roma external design (not the car itself), because it instantly looked like an Aston Martin. Something mentioned by many of the reviewers. You my feel it has a more understated visual appearance than the new Vantage, an historic Aston Martin attribute.
AMVSVNick said:
cayman-black said:
I have been thinking about why i would not consider a new Vantage and what would make me change my mind. First how about a Vantage S with a hp increase(AMG GTR engine.) larger carbon bonnet vents, bigger style wheels and nice exhaust exits and some carbon brakes (not sure if they are an option now?) Flip up navigation, perhaps this would do it.
But only when you have saved up enough money according to Mr Simon Nunney Back from Budleigh said:
Indeed, see I exist, I’m not a troll although some of you might hope I am. I’m the future of Aston Martin, and little Nikki , do come and visit, and you can see if I’m a Weapons Grade Bell End whist I extract your opinion out of you .....
At no time have I suggested you are a Troll, it is clear to all however, you remain a Weapons Grade Bell End 
Furthermore, in the last couple of weeks, I have given no opinion on the AP era cars.
Knowledge is power and yours is severely lacking.
Out.
AMVSVNick said:
Back from Budleigh said:
Indeed, see I exist, I’m not a troll although some of you might hope I am. I’m the future of Aston Martin, and little Nikki , do come and visit, and you can see if I’m a Weapons Grade Bell End whist I extract your opinion out of you .....
At no time have I suggested you are a Troll, it is clear to all however, you remain a Weapons Grade Bell End Furthermore, in the last couple of weeks, I have given no opinion on the AP era cars.
Knowledge is power and yours is severely lacking.
Out.
In all seriousness though, the moaners and wingers, are not the future of Aston Martin, of Nicholas Mee & co , yes, of AML, no!
Most new buyers ( here in the north anyway) don’t care one jot about a AMOC I’m afraid .... nor about this place.
I knew the new vantage would not be to Budleigh Salterton’s liking, but hey, it’s obvious AML has not aimed it at them, and given time , with the vained grille option and the roadster, sales will increase.
DBSS sales before Gaydon closed are way ahead to the previous Vanquish .
And dear Jon,
Please stop repeating be same italic sentence about meeting expectations, you’ve played that card once to often but won’t reply on previous generation sales except for 2004..... get this Jon, it ain’t 2094 anymore!
Some of you lot are absolutely incredulous!
I also hope AML ditch the personalisation plates , the option of having your initials on your indoor car cover ( that is so crass it’s unbelievable) and all the other clap trap that the so called saviours of the brand relish.
I hope in a years time, the moaners have been replaced by the enlightened!
Edited by Back from Budleigh on Tuesday 15th September 13:17
A new DB11 V8V turned up at the local watering hole where we were having a small lemonade outside in the sunshine.
Having not been completely convinced by the styling of the DB11 up to now, I have to say that the Volante looked absolutely stunning (even in ceramic grey when I don't like grey cars
).
Quite a large car but just beautiful. Now all they need to do is take the lettering off the rear - even if the Chinese like it.
Having not been completely convinced by the styling of the DB11 up to now, I have to say that the Volante looked absolutely stunning (even in ceramic grey when I don't like grey cars
).Quite a large car but just beautiful. Now all they need to do is take the lettering off the rear - even if the Chinese like it.
An interesting question is, assuming by some minor miracle Aston manage to make it through the current predicament without outside assistance or going bust, what should be the strategy going forward?
. Obviously, hope that DBX is a success
. Cease investing any more money into the Vantage
. Continue V6 development
. Whilst the Newey cars will be costly, I think long term for the brand completing them makes sense as they have come this far
. Design cue changes on DB11/DBS and a new interior layout
. Understand your target audience better
. Start to decrease the number of platforms. Currently 4 platforms is too many for a company of Aston's size and current resource
Question remarks remain whether the brand needs the facilities for producing 14,000 units. Surely the world doesn't need that many new Astons a year, although maybe it doesn't cost that much to maintain them. Maybe do a McLaren and sell to lease?
. Obviously, hope that DBX is a success
. Cease investing any more money into the Vantage
. Continue V6 development
. Whilst the Newey cars will be costly, I think long term for the brand completing them makes sense as they have come this far
. Design cue changes on DB11/DBS and a new interior layout
. Understand your target audience better
. Start to decrease the number of platforms. Currently 4 platforms is too many for a company of Aston's size and current resource
Question remarks remain whether the brand needs the facilities for producing 14,000 units. Surely the world doesn't need that many new Astons a year, although maybe it doesn't cost that much to maintain them. Maybe do a McLaren and sell to lease?
Back from Budleigh said:
SJH_Vs said:
Like I mentioned earlier this thread is turning more into Brexit type positions whilst my view is that Aston are actually close to have a really excellent and well designed range of cars with a mild facelift to the DBS & Vantage; plus dropping the discount thing and just having a realistic MRP.
On the one hand we have the boomers who’d like a mildly revised DB9 and everything will be fine - this is like saying my world should just stick with Windows 3.1 from 1992 for you all - and then those with the DBSS who claim everything is fine despite the obvious flaws in this and even the addition from Aston that things aren’t fine because they’re not selling enough.
The DBX does show what can be done so whilst I love my Vanquish S and think it’s the most beautiful Aston of the last 30 odd years, equally I don’t expect Aston to keep selling them and the DBSS is a really good car that’s 90% of the way there. I’ve met Marek a couple of times and have had about a couple of hours or so with him, he’s a great guy and with input from people like us all I really think he can get the current cars to the right point.
Oh and yes the new Ferrari Roma is beautiful but again a sodding great iPad and I’m a tech person!!
Just for clarification, are you a tech expert?On the one hand we have the boomers who’d like a mildly revised DB9 and everything will be fine - this is like saying my world should just stick with Windows 3.1 from 1992 for you all - and then those with the DBSS who claim everything is fine despite the obvious flaws in this and even the addition from Aston that things aren’t fine because they’re not selling enough.
The DBX does show what can be done so whilst I love my Vanquish S and think it’s the most beautiful Aston of the last 30 odd years, equally I don’t expect Aston to keep selling them and the DBSS is a really good car that’s 90% of the way there. I’ve met Marek a couple of times and have had about a couple of hours or so with him, he’s a great guy and with input from people like us all I really think he can get the current cars to the right point.
Oh and yes the new Ferrari Roma is beautiful but again a sodding great iPad and I’m a tech person!!
Oh sorry yes, you’ve told everyone 87 times in the last 5 days.
When you next see Mr R, tell him from me there’s absolutely nothing wrong with the 3 new kids on the block! They are the most stunning cars in their 3 sectors!
And that’s from me... A design expert, not a tech expert, a design expert, and design always trumps tech.
Just pop over to the Porsche board and you'll see a frenzy around the new 992 Turbo S, dealers don't even have demo cars, orders being fulfilled early next summer etc etc. This car is about £150k and with a reasonable spec around £175k, compare this with the situation with the DB11, Vantage and DBSS. I'd say that to any commercial person Porsche got it right with design, tech, pricing, supply you name it. Aston is so very close, my comments were designed to highlight practical assistance in doing so, not having a go at any particular segment of existing or potential Aston customer, which appears to have happened rather a lot in here. I don't really care who buys Astons as long as they do in good numbers!! Even Aston admit that's not happening at the moment.
For the Mods on this forum I think you can see that in this thread, amongst many reasonable contributors, it really has run it's course and some members have stepped over the line and become rather abusive and personal. It might be tine to lock this one and review some of the 'contributions'
Back from Budleigh said:
It will take time, but the likes of Mr Zagato really do need to keep their cheque books firmly shut, and only open them at Nikki Mee’s establishment!
Not really my thing. I keep moving forward with my purchases, not backward. I'm more interested in the recent mid-engined Astons that have been shown as concepts.Back from Budleigh said:
That way the general public and car buyers perception of a stereotypical Aston owner will change, a change AML desperately need
What evidence do you have that the general public has this stereotype (other you have one that exists in your head)? I don't think the general public have any preconception of what an Aston driver is. And this forum contradicts your stereotype conclusively. All I see here is people wishing that the AP generation cars were more attractive and had better interiors - not that they remain mired in some bygone age.Oh, and while your here, perhaps you might try to answer this question below that I posed you and perhaps address how the Aston owners have frequently embraced radical changes of design direction but are somehow only saying the AP era are sub-par because they are resistant to change?
AstonZagato said:
Back from Budleigh said:
This has always hindered Aston Martin, its owners think they have the divine right to insist on no changes, it always has been the case and always will.
I realise that you are trolling (poorly) in order to get a reaction but can you point me to where someone has "insisted on no changes"? The DB9 and Vanquish era was a radical departure from DB7 and the Virage/TS Vantage (so radical, incidentally, that you didn't like it and departed in a huff to Ferrari). And yet this was the most successful era for the company bar none both financially and in terms of sales. This is not the first time that Aston's design language has changed massively: DB6 to DBS, V8 Vantage to Virage, etc. It would appear that, in general, owners have little problem with change but they want to buy something that they find attractive. Sure, the manufacturer will lose some past owners along the way (like you in the DB9 era) but the important thing is that the company gains more new buyers as the designs develop to make up for the ones they have lost. Which, however much you personally like the current line up, they have notably failed to do in the Reichman era.
As a design expert, I would have expected you to understand the history of the Aston designs.
I honestly believe what is needed:
1) The DBX will be a huge success , no changes needed.
2) No cost option vained grille on Vantage
3) CC brakes option and bhp increase on Vantage
4) DBSS/11 need no exterior change. Change mbux system to DBX
5) Leave all specials/ bond editions to works service
6) Let works support AMOC only
7) Cut AMR specials totally
8) Cut the real estate/ submarines etc etc
All of the above is completely useless unless you change the perception of the brand as a rich pensioners GT car from the Cotswolds, who uses it only at weekend to go to and from the golf club.
I know some won’t like that but it’s holding back new buyers, they don’t want to be connected to a brand that stands for all that is wrong with Chope/Gammon set!
New wealthy people are usually very open minded and moderate in opinions, they will not want to be though of as dinosaurs, and will purchase a non dinasour Ferrari or Porsche or whatever. I’m sorry guys , that’s what’s going on.
There is a place for the moaners, AMOC, there will always be Nikki Mee’s etc and of course, Aston Martin works service.
2004-07 will not return. Let the company move on.
I’m hard faced and don’t give a toss what people think, but not everyone is as direct or steel plated as me, some friends won’t buy an Aston because of the dinosaur / chope connections , and tbh, those perceptions should or were only applicable to Bentley.
Bentley rid themselves of the baggage and it’s all fallen on Aston Martin, which is sad , and unfair.
Above all else , Daimler need to take over!
I know some are going to choke on their pint in the 29th hole but without Daimler, I honestly think it’s going to be ta ta to AML as we know it.
1) The DBX will be a huge success , no changes needed.
2) No cost option vained grille on Vantage
3) CC brakes option and bhp increase on Vantage
4) DBSS/11 need no exterior change. Change mbux system to DBX
5) Leave all specials/ bond editions to works service
6) Let works support AMOC only
7) Cut AMR specials totally
8) Cut the real estate/ submarines etc etc
All of the above is completely useless unless you change the perception of the brand as a rich pensioners GT car from the Cotswolds, who uses it only at weekend to go to and from the golf club.
I know some won’t like that but it’s holding back new buyers, they don’t want to be connected to a brand that stands for all that is wrong with Chope/Gammon set!
New wealthy people are usually very open minded and moderate in opinions, they will not want to be though of as dinosaurs, and will purchase a non dinasour Ferrari or Porsche or whatever. I’m sorry guys , that’s what’s going on.
There is a place for the moaners, AMOC, there will always be Nikki Mee’s etc and of course, Aston Martin works service.
2004-07 will not return. Let the company move on.
I’m hard faced and don’t give a toss what people think, but not everyone is as direct or steel plated as me, some friends won’t buy an Aston because of the dinosaur / chope connections , and tbh, those perceptions should or were only applicable to Bentley.
Bentley rid themselves of the baggage and it’s all fallen on Aston Martin, which is sad , and unfair.
Above all else , Daimler need to take over!
I know some are going to choke on their pint in the 29th hole but without Daimler, I honestly think it’s going to be ta ta to AML as we know it.
Back from Budleigh said:
You tell me Mr Mysterious what is your thing?
Um. I just did. New cars are my thing. Not classics.Back from Budleigh said:
You own a Tesla.....
I do indeed.Back from Budleigh said:
I rest my case but again,
What case might that be?Back from Budleigh said:
if you are lucky enough to bump in to me at Cambridge or wherever, do explain your point in person, and I’ll explain mine!
I look forward to that.Back from Budleigh said:
Until then .... shut up, you are boring me!
So no answers then.AlexT said:
100% agree with this comment and your previous one. I am also in the 'younger' AM demographic.
The Roma interior is what I'd expect from Aston Martin (or better given they are renowned for luxurious interiors). The flow and attention to detail is noteworthy and superior to AM's offering.
I'm not set on the new MC20 interior - but understandably it's a more track orientated car.
I'm by no means a fan of large touch-screens but the way Lambo was able to integrate a screen neatly into the centre stack of the Huracan Evo was very reasonable.
AM have managed to do this admirably in the new DB, however. Also the interior design manages so some sort of flow too.
And finally Bugatti (yes I know!) but the principles of simplicity and beauty of this interior certainly are not beyond AM. Note the air vents, lack of big screens, simple yet functional door cards and the exquisite centre stack. Very impressive.
Agree 100%. The interior really lets down the Vantage and in cars like the Superleggera I can't imagine spending $375,000 on a car with a plastic iPad slab stuck in the middle of the dash. It isn't so much that the tech is outdated (though that is an issue) it's being forced to look at the ugly framed screen that is so annoying. My E39 M5 had it right. A nice discreet screen lower down.The Roma interior is what I'd expect from Aston Martin (or better given they are renowned for luxurious interiors). The flow and attention to detail is noteworthy and superior to AM's offering.
I'm not set on the new MC20 interior - but understandably it's a more track orientated car.
I'm by no means a fan of large touch-screens but the way Lambo was able to integrate a screen neatly into the centre stack of the Huracan Evo was very reasonable.
AM have managed to do this admirably in the new DB, however. Also the interior design manages so some sort of flow too.
And finally Bugatti (yes I know!) but the principles of simplicity and beauty of this interior certainly are not beyond AM. Note the air vents, lack of big screens, simple yet functional door cards and the exquisite centre stack. Very impressive.
Edited by AlexT on Tuesday 15th September 01:55
Jon39 said:
I am not saying there is anything wrong with the new Vantage.
The early 'rumblings' on the new Vantage PH topic have now been confirmed by AML, that sales numbers 'have not met expectations', so we must therefore presumably conclude, that some aspects are putting off a number of prospective buyers. It could be just a few things, but we don't know.
I was attracted to the Roma external design (not the car itself), because it instantly looked like an Aston Martin. Something mentioned by many of the reviewers. You my feel it has a more understated visual appearance than the new Vantage, an historic Aston Martin attribute.
I think the Roma has it's awkward sides too - the rear 3/4 looks terrible (as does the related Portofino, although that looks terrible from nearly every angle).
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