Discussion
Dewi 2 said:
Composer62 said:
I'm happy to be corrected, but I've been told that the Ferrari Grigio Titanio colour on my V8 Vantage roadster would have been around a £4500 option back in 2008.
Hello Kevin,
I am not with my records, but will try to remember to post the exact original extra cost. About a weeks time.
In 2008, I think Aston Martin had a paint category with a name something like, 'Other Manufacturers' Colours'.
David.
( Keeper of records - Grigio Titanio 4.7 and V12V. )
Hi Kevin,
As promised, here are some figures;
Model Year 2007 4.3
List prices;
Coupe £82,800
Coupe Sportshift £ 85,800
Roadster £91,000
Roadster Sportshift £94,000
Paint;
Contemporary £495
Out of Range £995
Match to Sample £4,495
Model Year 2009 4.7
Coupe £85,000
Paint;
Other Manufacturer £1795
Model Year 2011 4.7
Paint;
Other Manufacturer £2,495
2018 V8 Vantage 4.0
List Price £120,900
Paint;
Contemporary £1,195
Special £3,495
Q Special £3,995
Q Exclusive £6,995
Q Satin £10,995
I do like the new V8 Vantage, but am still thrilled by my 4.7, discreetly modified, one of seven, naturally aspirated, 20,000 miles, so with a cost to change of about £160,000, you can guess were the money stays.
Regards, David.
Dewi 2 said:
Dewi 2 said:
Composer62 said:
I'm happy to be corrected, but I've been told that the Ferrari Grigio Titanio colour on my V8 Vantage roadster would have been around a £4500 option back in 2008.
Hello Kevin,
I am not with my records, but will try to remember to post the exact original extra cost. About a weeks time.
In 2008, I think Aston Martin had a paint category with a name something like, 'Other Manufacturers' Colours'.
David.
( Keeper of records - Grigio Titanio 4.7 and V12V. )
Hi Kevin,
As promised, here are some figures;
Model Year 2007 4.3
List prices;
Coupe £82,800
Coupe Sportshift £ 85,800
Roadster £91,000
Roadster Sportshift £94,000
Paint;
Contemporary £495
Out of Range £995
Match to Sample £4,495
Model Year 2009 4.7
Coupe £85,000
Paint;
Other Manufacturer £1795
Model Year 2011 4.7
Paint;
Other Manufacturer £2,495
2018 V8 Vantage 4.0
List Price £120,900
Paint;
Contemporary £1,195
Special £3,495
Q Special £3,995
Q Exclusive £6,995
Q Satin £10,995
I do like the new V8 Vantage, but am still thrilled by my 4.7, discreetly modified, one of seven, naturally aspirated, 20,000 miles, so with a cost to change of about £160,000, you can guess were the money stays.
Regards, David.
that's very interesting.
I'm also still loving my manual 4.7 roadster after almost 7 years of ownership. I can't see me changing it for anything anytime soon.
I was about to share this as I received the same email.
With that mileage, surely it's a stock car. If someone had gone through with an early allocation hoping for a flip as one of the first available cars it would be for resale with the usual suspects like Roman's, Hartley etc, not a main dealer.
Even though this (and the new Vantage) look fantastic and appear to be great products that stand up against the competition in a way the previous cars weren't, I think they're going to be victims of the external climate and we're going to see more pre reg's and discounting. AML's luck strikes again!
With that mileage, surely it's a stock car. If someone had gone through with an early allocation hoping for a flip as one of the first available cars it would be for resale with the usual suspects like Roman's, Hartley etc, not a main dealer.
Even though this (and the new Vantage) look fantastic and appear to be great products that stand up against the competition in a way the previous cars weren't, I think they're going to be victims of the external climate and we're going to see more pre reg's and discounting. AML's luck strikes again!
I think you're right about the timing. Having passed some dealerships earlier this week I noted how 'Full' their lots were with stock and then I noticed the adverts for 5.9% Apr and dealer contributions towards your next new car sir and similar marketing bumpf.
Seems people really are pulling their belts in for the time being which is a shame for AML launching 2 fairly important models into this market background.
Seems people really are pulling their belts in for the time being which is a shame for AML launching 2 fairly important models into this market background.
That was the point I was trying (unsuccessfully) to make.
Base price about £188k add£30k of options and it looks like they're asking full sticker price so no real savings at all unless it's covered with options (?)
It will be interesting to see if prices follow the DB11 or stay a bit stronger
Base price about £188k add£30k of options and it looks like they're asking full sticker price so no real savings at all unless it's covered with options (?)
It will be interesting to see if prices follow the DB11 or stay a bit stronger
One day, in the distant future, after a few ownership changes at AML, 10-12 new CEOs and potentially a couple of insolvencies inbetween, Aston will learn the absolute price of their cars can't be considered in isolation without also looking at depreciation / cost to change
The issue with that DB12 in the advert s not that it cots £225k. It's that whoever gets into it will drop a fortune on whatever Aston they are getting out of and will know within 2 - 3 years, it's going to be worth no more than £100k, because by then, when it's no longer new, instead of restricting supply, Aston will foist cars onto dealer forecourts that end up heavily discounted. Same with new Vantage. So after they lose their newness, sales will slump
Of course the buyer may not be coming out of an Aston, in which case they will see the problem when they come to change and either go to a different brand or keep their car for longer. There are only so many people still out there with the budget and interest, who haven't yet been stung by Aston depreciation.
When the model prices are going up by far more than inflation, the cost to change goes up exponentially making it even more difficult
As I say, one day it will hopefully change. Whether it's before I'm too old to still be driving is another question.
The issue with that DB12 in the advert s not that it cots £225k. It's that whoever gets into it will drop a fortune on whatever Aston they are getting out of and will know within 2 - 3 years, it's going to be worth no more than £100k, because by then, when it's no longer new, instead of restricting supply, Aston will foist cars onto dealer forecourts that end up heavily discounted. Same with new Vantage. So after they lose their newness, sales will slump
Of course the buyer may not be coming out of an Aston, in which case they will see the problem when they come to change and either go to a different brand or keep their car for longer. There are only so many people still out there with the budget and interest, who haven't yet been stung by Aston depreciation.
When the model prices are going up by far more than inflation, the cost to change goes up exponentially making it even more difficult
As I say, one day it will hopefully change. Whether it's before I'm too old to still be driving is another question.
Edited by jonby on Tuesday 27th February 12:30
Agent57 said:
Everyone seems to buy cars based on a monthly payment amount now. Even expensive cars.
That's a very good point.'How much was car?'
'£499 a month' etc.
They're essentially just rented, with the finance companies saying thank you very much.
I always used to buy Car 2 with cash before selling Car 1 privately, but with Astons that's stretching the piggy bank a bit, and the higher up the ladder you go the less keen people seem on buying privately, so next time I'll have to go the p/ex route and lose a chunk.
If a car suffers from vast depreciation, does that suggest the starting price was too high and that 'the market' finds its true value instead? Perhaps this is an unforeseen issue with suddenly declaring something to be 'ultra luxury' and hoofing the price up.
Simpo Two said:
If a car suffers from vast depreciation, does that suggest the starting price was too high and that 'the market' finds its true value instead?
That, and/or oversupplyA price may be too high for selling 2,000 cars but just right for selling 500 cars
Whether limited editions or production cars, Aston almost always get the balance between price & production numbers very badly wrong
How and why they don't learn is one of life's mysteries
jonby said:
There are only so many people still out there with the budget and interest, who haven't yet been stung by Aston depreciation.
When the model prices are going up by far more than inflation, the cost to change goes up exponentially, making it even more difficult
When the model prices are going up by far more than inflation, the cost to change goes up exponentially, making it even more difficult
Throughout my motoring life, I have tended to buy 2 years old cars and if they happen to be interesting, just keep them.
It all began with a (what is now called classic) Mini Cooper.
When venturing into the world of Aston Martin, I could see that the initial 2 year depreciation was similar to any everyday car. The only difference being, the 2 year old cars had hardly been used, so looked just the same as brand new cars.
I did the usual research and then chose my ideal specification.
I could have just paid the new price and 3 months later, my perfect car would be mine, but my two year old purchase habit was hard to shake off, so it was time to start watching the used listing. Unknown to me at that time, there are only 7 UK cars in the specification that I wanted. Amazingly a few months later, the right car appeared for sale.
I did not waste time in contacting the dealer, but think I forgot to mention, it was the perfect specification for me.
Now on to Aston Martin depreciation.
I don't know how much gross dealer margin is involved in a P/X, but let's assume the figure £10,000.
The first owner of my car would have seen £47,000 (49%) disappear before year 3.
I have seen about £20,000 disappear in the subsequent 12 years.
For anyone buying keepers, that amount is academic although interesting because I did not know at the time, that unlike Jaguar sports cars, Aston Martins do seem to retain a reasonable price floor. Therefore that does cushion depreciation for the used buyers, who retain their cars.
If the used prices of the DB12 and new Vantage behave in a similar way to my own car, and taking £200,000 as the total new prices, they will probably be on sale for about £125,000 by year 3. Take off that P/X margin and the loss for a new buyer up to year 3.,will be £85,000.
Do I want a new Aston Martin?
Take that depreciation figure, reverse the first two numbers and that was the cost of my Aston Martin.
(Inflation does of course mean, it is not really a fair comparison.)
I have not studied closely, but Jonby is quite right, Aston Martin depreciation is quite fierce, perhaps especially compared to Ferrari.
Edited by Dewi 2 on Tuesday 27th February 14:47
Dewi 2 said:
...snip...
If the used prices of the DB12 and new Vantage behave in a similar way to my own car, and taking £200,000 as the total new prices, they will probably be on sale for about £125,000 by year 3. Take off that P/X margin and the loss for a new buyer up to year 3.,will be £85,000.
Do I want a new Aston Martin?
Take that depreciation figure, reverse the first two numbers and that was the cost of my Aston Martin.
(Inflation does of course mean, it is not really a fair comparison.)
I have not studied closely, but Jonby is quite right, Aston Martin depreciation is quite fierce, perhaps especially compared to Ferrari.
Up until now, I'd have a very small wager that the majority of new Astons were bought on some sort of PCP or lease deal. The price was irrelevant to the buyer - it was all about the monthlies. So prices could be sky high. Also, depreciation was hidden in the monthlies. And it is further disguised by whatever low interest rate / rebates / dealer incentives are put into the deal. If the used prices of the DB12 and new Vantage behave in a similar way to my own car, and taking £200,000 as the total new prices, they will probably be on sale for about £125,000 by year 3. Take off that P/X margin and the loss for a new buyer up to year 3.,will be £85,000.
Do I want a new Aston Martin?
Take that depreciation figure, reverse the first two numbers and that was the cost of my Aston Martin.
(Inflation does of course mean, it is not really a fair comparison.)
I have not studied closely, but Jonby is quite right, Aston Martin depreciation is quite fierce, perhaps especially compared to Ferrari.
When rates were low (and supply restricted due to Covid/Ukraine), it was easy to get the monthlies down to a palatable number. With base rates at 5.25%, it's not going to be easy to get the monthlies low.
Those near-zero interest rate cars are coming to the end of their leases.
The owners are finding they don't have any equity (or negative) and are giving them back to the finance companies - who want rid quickly and price as such.
Meanwhile the owner is then finding that a palatable monthly no longer finances a new Aston. It is more a base Porsche number.
It'll settle down eventually but there is a significant market adjustment happening.
AstonZagato said:
Dewi 2 said:
...snip...
If the used prices of the DB12 and new Vantage behave in a similar way to my own car, and taking £200,000 as the total new prices, they will probably be on sale for about £125,000 by year 3. Take off that P/X margin and the loss for a new buyer up to year 3.,will be £85,000.
Do I want a new Aston Martin?
Take that depreciation figure, reverse the first two numbers and that was the cost of my Aston Martin.
(Inflation does of course mean, it is not really a fair comparison.)
I have not studied closely, but Jonby is quite right, Aston Martin depreciation is quite fierce, perhaps especially compared to Ferrari.
Up until now, I'd have a very small wager that the majority of new Astons were bought on some sort of PCP or lease deal. The price was irrelevant to the buyer - it was all about the monthlies. So prices could be sky high. Also, depreciation was hidden in the monthlies. And it is further disguised by whatever low interest rate / rebates / dealer incentives are put into the deal. If the used prices of the DB12 and new Vantage behave in a similar way to my own car, and taking £200,000 as the total new prices, they will probably be on sale for about £125,000 by year 3. Take off that P/X margin and the loss for a new buyer up to year 3.,will be £85,000.
Do I want a new Aston Martin?
Take that depreciation figure, reverse the first two numbers and that was the cost of my Aston Martin.
(Inflation does of course mean, it is not really a fair comparison.)
I have not studied closely, but Jonby is quite right, Aston Martin depreciation is quite fierce, perhaps especially compared to Ferrari.
When rates were low (and supply restricted due to Covid/Ukraine), it was easy to get the monthlies down to a palatable number. With base rates at 5.25%, it's not going to be easy to get the monthlies low.
Those near-zero interest rate cars are coming to the end of their leases.
The owners are finding they don't have any equity (or negative) and are giving them back to the finance companies - who want rid quickly and price as such.
Meanwhile the owner is then finding that a palatable monthly no longer finances a new Aston. It is more a base Porsche number.
It'll settle down eventually but there is a significant market adjustment happening.
As you have suggested, the majority of purchases will be by PCP, so I took a look at the figures.
For a basic DB12 without options £188,500, the total amount required to pay over 36 months appears to be £124,876.
You then hand the car back, hoping that it has not exceeded 18,000 miles.
Can that really be correct ?
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