Can Aston Martin Survive in the Electric Vehicle Era?

[Jon39]

Years ago, China encouraged western motor manufacturers to form Chinese joint ventures.
The Chinese watched and learnt.

Chinese car manufacturers are now turning their attention to western markets.
Unlike the pompously named Skoda Superb, one of Geely's subsidiaries Zeekr, is aiming for others to award them luxury status.
Even though employing only a few more people than Aston Martin, they now produce 500 cars every day.
AML build about 23 cars each day.
Should western car manufacturers be worried ?














REVIEW
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Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 28th April 14:15

[Jon39]

When I started this topic, my initial thoughts in answer to the topic title, was wondering how many customers would want to buy a beautiful Aston Martin sports car, but which makes a sound like an electric train. A sound that is associated with everyday transport, rather than an occasion.

Now, more than two years on;
1. Aston Martin are now saying, that they want to continue making petrol engine cars for as long as is permitted. Their customers have apparently spoken.
2. There are now signs that the Chinese electric car industry, are very serious about selling huge numbers of cars around the world.
Those of a certain age have witnessed a similar situation before, when companies with unknown names, began selling motor bikes in the Great Britain. The comment was, "Who will ever want something called Honda or Yamaha, when a Royal Enfield, Norton, BSA, Matchless or Triumph, are so much better and they are British too."
We soon found out what happened.
This time there is an additional problem, because the state backed manufacturers might receive 'help', to making their initial export prices extra appealing.

Aston Martin does have one huge selling advantage though and that is the power of their brand.
Should the other established car manufacturers be worried?

[Jon39]

Simpo Two said:

Ah well you and I know that MG was once British, but people under 30 probably don't.

That MG sports car though is the first EV I've seen that I could consider owning though.

When you buy your Chinese sports car (with an MG badge), always remember the following;

[Jon39]

Businesses are buying battery cars, but the reluctance amongst private buyers continues.

Would it be reasonable then, if all tax payers gave some of their money to the private buyers of battery cars ?

Well, that is exactly what the trade body for motor manufacturers and traders is demanding and they have been doing so every month. Obviously they don't want to frighten tax payers by using those precise words, so they fluff it up a bit.

Mike Hawes, chief executive of the SMMT said, "The latest sales figures underlined the case for introducing financial support for consumers, such as subsidies, or tax cuts. The market performance also underlines the need for the next government to provide private consumers with meaningful purchase incentives.”

Note - 'for the next government to provide', not for the tax payers to provide.
Manufacturers are apparently offering products, which do not meet the majority of private buyers expectations.
The industry think the answer is not better products, but tax increases to subsidise those products.

[Jon39]

dbs2000 said:

Not sure thats down Jon

I was referring to purchases by private customers, David.

In the UK, the overall EV sales are increasing. Business buyers are strong buyers of battery vehicles and it is said, that many that we see are business purchases. I think the taxation incentives involve being able to write off 100% of the cost in just one year. Obviously not applicable to private individuals.

Many 3 year old EVs are now reaching the used market and then looking mainly for private buyers. That is where traders are encountering sales resistance. It is reported that even Porsche main dealers don't want any more used Taycans. One website is advertising 722 Taycans, at prices from £44,000 to £156,000.

Lawrence Stroll has recently commented about AML's EV delay, saying their customers are not yet ready.

[Jon39]

I have mentioned this before, but have just been re-reading a national newspaper article and my conclusion was, What a cheek!

The motor industry admit, that they are experiencing reduced demand by private buyers for battery cars.

Whilst acknowledging some of the reasons;
'Robert Forrester, the chief executive of car dealership group Vertu Motors, told the BBC's Today programme, that the high cost of electric cars was a deterrent for private buyers, and "clearly you've also got all the issues we've discussed many times about range anxiety and things like that".'
So the industry think the government should offer financial incentives.

What they are saying is that a product that fails to meet consumer expectations, should be made to appear better value, by handing tax-payers money to the buyers.

A Discussion Starter.
If that is considered even slightly sensible, then introduce that system for all types of product, which are not achieving sales targets.
Tax payers whose income just slightly exceeds the Personal Allowance, could watch their tax money being given to buyers of £200,000 Aston Martins.

My view is that efficient commerce requires desirable products and services, to be offered for sale at attractive prices. Rigging the market with tariffs or subsidies, has always proven to be a temporary solution.

[Jon39]

Calinours said:

Don’t know about electric era but this week I had a bitter taste of the consequences of a failure of a battery in the hybrid era.

Hybrid battery/charging system failure. Nought wrong with rest of vehicle or engine. Vehicle unusable as a result. Value of vehicle maybe £30k.

What is it? a 1.8kWhr power pack and electronics.

Cost to fix by main dealer? - wait for it… £15000 for a little hybrid battery pack (plus a 6 months lead time) plus fitting plus VAT, well over £20,000. Car is effectively scrap according to the main dealer. I’m trusting to the aftermarket to deliver a repair at reasonable cost.

The car was designed to be undrivable if the hybrid battery fails.

Not AML this time. Step forward JLR. The first and last time I would ever buy any hybrid thingy. bds.

Sorry that has happened to you, Calinours
Some years ago, I was contemplating buying a hybrid, mistakenly thinking at the time that I could continue driving using the petrol engine, even after potential battery failure. Fortunately a newspaper article appeared about a distraught buyer of an 8 year old E Class. The battery warranty ran for 8 years and the buyer discovered his car was scrap one year later.

How old is your car ?
This is now the third fatal hybrid failure, that I have heard about. I am hardly likely to hear about any really, but there must be some insiders who are beginning to see a pattern of expected battery life developing.
The other two failures were both (about) 9 years old plug-in hybrid Mercedes-Benz E Class cars. One a relative of Adam on this forum.
To be fair, failure at 9 years might be considered long before the average failure point, but in time more information about the age of failures will be known.

The aftermarket automobile industry contains experts in the inner workings of car electronics. In the Aston Martin world they are based in Tewkesbury.
Many of the plug-in hybrid cars cannot be driven using the petrol engine, following main hybrid battery failure. The link between the two power sources must presumably be controlled electronically. Possibly the right electronics expert might know how to disconnect that link, enabling the petrol engine to operate independently and therefore extend the life of the cars.