ASM2 Gearbox Failure
Discussion
As many of you know Bamford Rose have been beavering away on my S to finish Johnny 550 for Rockingham
This week they started on adding the oil cooling radiator circuit to the ASM2 box that was descoped by teh factory in the upgrade from ASM1 (and then reinstated on ASM3 as well as now being offered as an option on ASM2)
I asked them to do this as a precaution, knowing the effect excess heat can have on gearboxes and knowing it was going to need to cope with the extra power/torque. This is a common fitment on the race cars.
So on splitting the gearbox to fit the hoses they found debris on the magnetic plug, debris in the bottom of the casing and very dark oil which showed signs of overheating. On striping it further it got worse!
Significant wear marks on the main pinion gear
IMG_0271 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
Scoring to ALL the rollers of the main bearing
IMG_0272 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
and scuff marks to the bearing housing
IMG_0274 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
Now my S has always had a diff whine from cold which I dismissed as just cold oil it alos got worse in the winter.
The car has done 13k miles in just over 12 months, never been tracked, never been launched, never been driven by Cockers, always properly warmed up and driven with mechanical sympathy.
In my experience of high power gearboxes this has occurred progressively.
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
Ironically had I not asked for the extra cooling BR would not have spotted this before it became a major failure and knowing my luck that would have been outside the 3 year warranty in the middle of a Eurohoon
So I have emailed the pictures along with my perspective and expectations to my contact at Gaydon. The reply promptly came back that as a sealed unit that has now been opened they could not entertain any warranty, this was reiterated in by a phone call shortly afterwards. Not too surprised at that response though disappointed they didn't even discuss it with the technical team or want to see the damage for themselves.
I know of 3 other ASM2 gearboxes that have suffered similar damage with in months, this has all the makings of the throttle pedal debacle
Bamford Rose will be rebuilding the gearbox to a higher standard and taking measures to prevent this happening again.
For those of you with ASM2 gearboxes I would suggest you get the oil and magnetic plug checked for debris if you have any concerns.
Ironically one of the reasons I sold my last roadster and ordered a brand new S was to get away from the numerous quality issues the first one had. It has turned out the replacement is far worse!
Thankfully it seems I can rely on BR to spot any issues early and resolve them at reasonable cost.
I was keen on ordering a V12VS roadster when they are released, I am now 110% certain that will not happen.
I will persevere with the my S but there is no way I am going to support production of such poor quality by replacing another car with another "throw of the dice"
AML you really do need to sort your QC and consider its impact on future sales.
This week they started on adding the oil cooling radiator circuit to the ASM2 box that was descoped by teh factory in the upgrade from ASM1 (and then reinstated on ASM3 as well as now being offered as an option on ASM2)
I asked them to do this as a precaution, knowing the effect excess heat can have on gearboxes and knowing it was going to need to cope with the extra power/torque. This is a common fitment on the race cars.
So on splitting the gearbox to fit the hoses they found debris on the magnetic plug, debris in the bottom of the casing and very dark oil which showed signs of overheating. On striping it further it got worse!
Significant wear marks on the main pinion gear
IMG_0271 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
Scoring to ALL the rollers of the main bearing
IMG_0272 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
and scuff marks to the bearing housing
IMG_0274 by mikey k V8VR, on Flickr
Now my S has always had a diff whine from cold which I dismissed as just cold oil it alos got worse in the winter.
The car has done 13k miles in just over 12 months, never been tracked, never been launched, never been driven by Cockers, always properly warmed up and driven with mechanical sympathy.
In my experience of high power gearboxes this has occurred progressively.
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
Ironically had I not asked for the extra cooling BR would not have spotted this before it became a major failure and knowing my luck that would have been outside the 3 year warranty in the middle of a Eurohoon
So I have emailed the pictures along with my perspective and expectations to my contact at Gaydon. The reply promptly came back that as a sealed unit that has now been opened they could not entertain any warranty, this was reiterated in by a phone call shortly afterwards. Not too surprised at that response though disappointed they didn't even discuss it with the technical team or want to see the damage for themselves.
I know of 3 other ASM2 gearboxes that have suffered similar damage with in months, this has all the makings of the throttle pedal debacle
Bamford Rose will be rebuilding the gearbox to a higher standard and taking measures to prevent this happening again.
For those of you with ASM2 gearboxes I would suggest you get the oil and magnetic plug checked for debris if you have any concerns.
Ironically one of the reasons I sold my last roadster and ordered a brand new S was to get away from the numerous quality issues the first one had. It has turned out the replacement is far worse!
Thankfully it seems I can rely on BR to spot any issues early and resolve them at reasonable cost.
I was keen on ordering a V12VS roadster when they are released, I am now 110% certain that will not happen.
I will persevere with the my S but there is no way I am going to support production of such poor quality by replacing another car with another "throw of the dice"
AML you really do need to sort your QC and consider its impact on future sales.
Ikebaddog said:
Did BR not inform you that this would invalidate your warranty?
They did, I took the risk not expecting it to already be on its way out at 13k miles before they got hold of itI would not expect a gearbox to start failing at such low mileage, though I do know of at least 3 others that have gone at even lower mileage.
My sympathies Mikey. My understanding (& I do know the story, indeed I have even seen the damaged parts) is that this is down to cost cutting in the manufacturing process
Like you, we so want to support AM and see them do well but I fear the bean-counters are in charge and therefore corners are being cut.
Like you, we so want to support AM and see them do well but I fear the bean-counters are in charge and therefore corners are being cut.
mikey k said:
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
You have had to have a new engine as well? Blimey engine and gearbox failure on a relatively young car...that's really bad! Makes me not want to buy an Aston!Mikey can only offer sympathy.
Aston Martin really let themselves down both on product quality and customer service. Google Aston Martin asm2 and this thread is the first thing to pop up. That has the potential to cause them all sorts of complaints in the future
Aston Martin really let themselves down both on product quality and customer service. Google Aston Martin asm2 and this thread is the first thing to pop up. That has the potential to cause them all sorts of complaints in the future
Edited by Neil1300r on Friday 7th March 19:35
Sorry to read about this calamity Mike.
In photograph 1, we can see a chunk missing. The missing metal reveals a powder type surface. GKN have a division that makes metal from powder. I have often wondered how strong that could be.
My limited understanding, is that the ASM gearboxes are automated gear change versions of the manual box. I know the later ones have more gears. Therefore could the same damage that you have shown in your photographs, also occur to a manual gearbox?
Edited by Jon39 on Friday 7th March 18:42
FrankieV8VSP10 said:
mikey k said:
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
You have had to have a new engine as well? Blimey engine and gearbox failure on a relatively young car...that's really bad! Makes me not want to buy an Aston!That's really crap Mikey. I thought these graziano gearboxes were supposed to be fairly bomb proof. Can it really be a function of ASM that has caused premature failure.
In terms of the accusation of cost cutting, given the 'box is a bought in unit that hardly seems likely does it?
FrankieV8VSP10 said:
mikey k said:
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
You have had to have a new engine as well? Blimey engine and gearbox failure on a relatively young car...that's really bad! Makes me not want to buy an Aston!I am sorry to hear of your problem.
I believe you own 2 Astons at the moment and obviously are a good customer of the company.
It is disappointing,to say the least,that Aston Martin did not see fit to take a more enlightened and sympathetic approach when you advised them of this problem.
They could have requested say a letter from BR and then made a more considered response.
I would ask BR to send you a report and forward it to AM and then request a proper evaluation,hopefully a compromise solution might then be forthcoming.
I believe you own 2 Astons at the moment and obviously are a good customer of the company.
It is disappointing,to say the least,that Aston Martin did not see fit to take a more enlightened and sympathetic approach when you advised them of this problem.
They could have requested say a letter from BR and then made a more considered response.
I would ask BR to send you a report and forward it to AM and then request a proper evaluation,hopefully a compromise solution might then be forthcoming.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 7th March 19:22
I am sorry to hear of your problem.
I believe you own 2 Astons at the moment and obviously are a good customer of the company.
It is disappointing,to say the least,that Aston Martin did not see fit to take a more enlightened and sympathetic approach when you advised them of this problem.
They could have requested say a letter from BR and then made a more considered response.
I would ask BR to send you a report and forward it to AM and then request a proper evaluation,hopefully a compromise solution might then be forthcoming.
I believe you own 2 Astons at the moment and obviously are a good customer of the company.
It is disappointing,to say the least,that Aston Martin did not see fit to take a more enlightened and sympathetic approach when you advised them of this problem.
They could have requested say a letter from BR and then made a more considered response.
I would ask BR to send you a report and forward it to AM and then request a proper evaluation,hopefully a compromise solution might then be forthcoming.
Edited by avinalarf on Friday 7th March 19:23
FrankieV8VSP10 said:
mikey k said:
The gearbox has only been used for 100 miles on the new engine to run it in a low revs so I'm certain it is not the engine.
You have had to have a new engine as well? Blimey engine and gearbox failure on a relatively young car...that's really bad! Makes me not want to buy an Aston!Gassing Station | Aston Martin | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff