revs flaring

[jonby]

Slightly strange problem this weekend - car booked in for Tuesday to investigate but interested to see if anyone else has had this issue or any ideas

Manual box, V12 engine - when I change up a gear, particularly in the higher gears, the revs go up very approx 1k revs and stay there for a few secs before dropping back down. It's almost as you would expect to see the rev counter behave when you put your foot on the gas in an automatic car, where the revs shoot up at first but then back down as the box changes gear, however in this instance of course I have a manual car

The characteristic can also be seen if you are in a high gear, at low revs and put your foot down on the gas. The revs go up sharply, then drop back down and then slowly start to rise again

I thought it might be clutch related, the garage over the phone have suggested a possible sticky throttle although I'm not so sure either is the issue. Thoughts ?

Edited by jonby on Saturday 25th April 12:20

[jonby]

Thanks for the quick responses

Clutch was my automatic assumption, servicing department seemed to think not as I described it over the phone - sounds like I was right first time

Any experiences of cost to replace clutch in V12V or expected life (I've done about 19k miles in my car, from new)

Think I'm right in saying that those who have had clutch upgrades of one description or another have had them on the gearboxes fitted to V8 Astons, with no actual 'upgrade' options to the V12 car systems ? If there were one available, now seems the obvious time for me.

Edited by jonby on Saturday 25th April 14:25

[jonby]

JohnG1 said:

AML kindly fitted a new clutch to my V12V at about 5000 miles since the old one had a defect that was detected by a professional (I hadn't noticed, but I drive like Miss Daisy).

At that time (late 2012) AML quoted £4000 for supply and fit. That was negotiable.

If I needed a new V12V clutch now I would talk to BR, their clutch is twin plate like the AML V12V but will come with a lighter flywheel if you want that. They will also fit the right bearing right from the start!

Edited by JohnG1 on Saturday 25th April 14:39

Cheers - any ideas on cost of the BR option ?

[jonby]

So a brief update. Thanks for all the input and to Mike at BR for some advice over the phone. Car is due to be collected tomorrow by Stratstones - I assume they will concur it is indeed a replacement clutch that is necessary

The question of whether it will be covered under warranty is interesting. I agree with both points of view above to an extent - just because something is 'consumable' in the sense that you expect to have to replace every so often as a result of wear and tear does not mean it can't also be considered a warranty item, if it goes far earlier than expected

For instance, if brake pads/discs/tyres went after 1k miles, unless you had been treating the car like Chris Harris in a hooning video, you would have every right to say it was unreasonable. Clutch after 5k miles is patently unreasonable. Clutch after 35k miles if you expect 45-50k mile life is probably reasonable. Where inbetween do you draw the line i.e. is 19k miles reasonable for a clutch to be replaced under warranty ?

Let's wait and see what tomorrow brings.......

[jonby]

Jockman said:

AMDBSNick said:

V8Andrew said:

jonby said:

Cheers - any ideas on cost of the BR option ?

Unlike some specialists they don't quote prices online.

I bet Jonby had worked that one out all by himself

But Nicko if they don't quote online AND don't answer phones.....how will you ever know?

As it happens, I've this morning called BR, spoken to Mike, fully understand the options and the pricing - I now have that in reserve depending what happens with the dealer

The BR 'option' involves a lighter flywheel and a slightly more wear resistant plate (hope I've got the terminology more or less correct there - I can't pretend this is an area I'm overly knowledgeable in) however the difference between the AM standard fit equipment and the BR option is significantly less than the upgrade should you have this fitted to any V8 or an early V12V

The upshot being that unless you need to change the clutch anyway, there is no point going for the BR option. So, if the factory pay or if the dealer is able to get a significant contribution, it will by definition be much cheaper to stay with the dealer/factory fit option however if the factory refuse to contribute, I may as well go to BR on the basis it will be both cheaper and a little better

[jonby]

Dealer has confirmed it needs a new clutch just from a brief drive of the car

Initial quote................£4,900 including VAT !!!

They don/t recall having to ever do one on a V12V (which tells it's own story about mine going now) and it's 'in the book' as a 15 hour labour job, which requires the manifolds on one side being taken out......sounds somewhat OTT to me, to put it mildly

Next step is they have asked the factory to support a warranty claim - will be interesting to say the least to see how this one pans out

[jonby]

There's no answer right now until we see the factory's next response - their current response is that unless it's taken apart and a fault is found, they won't cover the cost

My issue is that if I ask Wilmslow to take it apart, I effectively have to use them to replace the clutch, regardless of whether the factory agree to pay some/all/nothing.

I can get a clutch fitted for far less money at BR/DAE/assume some other independents too. But if I go to an independent and they find a fault, it will be far more difficult to get a factory claim. It's a real dilemma

Now of course my argument is it doesn't matter what they find when they take it apart - it shouldn't go at this mileage - I've had the car since new so I know how it's been driven and it's been looked after well. I don't abuse my car and am light on tyres & brakes. The question right now is whether the factory can be convinced and whilst I'm in those discussions, nothing is happening to fix the car which is incredibly frustrating

But it's good to get your feedback damianke, which supports everything I hear elsewhere, namely that the clutch is strong and should last for far more miles

[jonby]

mikey k said:

jonby said:

My issue is that if I ask Wilmslow to take it apart, I effectively have to use them to replace the clutch, regardless of whether the factory agree to pay some/all/nothing.

I can get a clutch fitted for far less money at BR/DAE/assume some other independents too. But if I go to an independent and they find a fault, it will be far more difficult to get a factory claim. It's a real dilemma

I know your pain!
I had similar issues with my ASM2 gearbox
I doubt you will get the full cost of the clutch whatever they find, they will wriggle on the mileage
Is there a "performance" benefit to going indie on a V12V manual?
If not you might want to stick to Wilmslow just for the AM history on a collectable car?

I'm erring towards your thoughts, but haggling on the price first so that if there is no contribution or only a small one, the pain/differential is less

Having talked it through with BR who were very helpful, the performance benefit of going indie is marginal on the V12V manual - it is a little 'better' but not like on the V8. I've not contacted DAE but their price is visible on their website

[jonby]

mikey k said:

jonby said:

My issue is that if I ask Wilmslow to take it apart, I effectively have to use them to replace the clutch, regardless of whether the factory agree to pay some/all/nothing.

I can get a clutch fitted for far less money at BR/DAE/assume some other independents too. But if I go to an independent and they find a fault, it will be far more difficult to get a factory claim. It's a real dilemma

I know your pain!
I had similar issues with my ASM2 gearbox
I doubt you will get the full cost of the clutch whatever they find, they will wriggle on the mileage
Is there a "performance" benefit to going indie on a V12V manual?
If not you might want to stick to Wilmslow just for the AM history on a collectable car?

I'm erring towards your thoughts, but haggling on the price first so that if there is no contribution or only a small one, the pain/differential is less

Having talked it through with BR who were very helpful, the performance benefit of going indie is marginal on the V12V manual - it is a little 'better' but not like on the V8. I've not contacted DAE but their price is visible on their website

Edited by jonby on Wednesday 29th April 23:11

[jonby]

An update for those who may be interested

Clutch is now replaced - combination of Stratstones Wilmslow & AML customer services led to very speedy despatch of new clutch and then the fitting - it was ordered on Friday morning, arrived on Tuesday (after the bank holiday Monday) and fitting was finished the day after, on the Wednesday

I haven't seen the clutch but I am told it definitely is wear rather than a failure, although it's being sent to AML for further inspection

Meanwhile the initial quote of £4.9k was discovered to be wrong - it was based on 15 hours however that is a code supplied by AML in relation to the chassis number - apparently when Stratstones started the work, they realised that the factory had given them instructions based on a sportshift - they think that's connected to roadster chassis numbers being slightly different to coupe numbers and a resultant mistake in the data. Not sure what the correct price should be, but think it's c. £4.2/4.3k

The reason I'm not quite sure what the correct full price should be is that I was to an extent 'looked after' in terms of price, for a wide variety of reasons, however it is obviously not appropriate to provide any specific details here - it was still a fair amount of money, but I was very happy with the attitude and outcome

Now to get back to the business of putting some more miles on the car !

[jonby]

superlightr said:

perhaps buying the car from new/good customer in the past?

both were strong factors and there were others too

Also, I've no idea how influential it was in this instance, but when reading the threads about shopping around for service prices, I've always been a believer that building up a relationship with just one or two dealerships for both supply of cars & servicing/parts has to be of benefit in instances such as these, as it is when it comes to discounts on cars, allocations when cars are in short supply, assistance with warranty claims, invitations to events, etc