Discussion
More info:
Definitely Merc V8 only.
Just under 700hp
£185k base. £220-230k properly optioned.
A twin screen, Aston Martin internally developed bespoke and all new infotainment system - unsure how accurate that will turn out to be?
A return to the waterfall centre console
Built to order only.
Revealed at Goodwood FoS and Monaco GP.
Production of the Aston V12 engine in Cologne has already been discontinued, as has production of DB11 and DBS. The only V12 Aston you can buy going forward is Valkyrie.
Definitely Merc V8 only.
Just under 700hp
£185k base. £220-230k properly optioned.
A twin screen, Aston Martin internally developed bespoke and all new infotainment system - unsure how accurate that will turn out to be?
A return to the waterfall centre console
Built to order only.
Revealed at Goodwood FoS and Monaco GP.
Production of the Aston V12 engine in Cologne has already been discontinued, as has production of DB11 and DBS. The only V12 Aston you can buy going forward is Valkyrie.
Edited by Calinours on Friday 21st April 10:47
GT3ZZZ said:
Ninja59 said:
Interesting the twin screen bit. They have said elsewhere developed in house, but I suspect somewhere MB systems behind the scenes.
I do think we may have seen a version of it in the Valkyrie in honesty.
I believe it's the MBUX twin screen you'll find in the last A/C/E Class reskinned with some AM fonts and graphics. I do think we may have seen a version of it in the Valkyrie in honesty.
If it is actually a reskinned MB system, it spells trouble. Do they really think that their customers will not remember what they have been told/sold?
Aston Martins long tradition of having its own exclusive AML engine/s is at an end.
With the discontinuation of the spectacular and now, undeservedly short lived Aston Martin engine design number thirty-one (AE31) the twin turbo V12, the company are quietly bringing to an end decades of tradition of deep involvement in designing and developing their own exclusive powertrains.
It is a huge milestone, one that Andy Palmer, despite his mistakes, was determined to avoid. It is a point from which there is usually no return.
While I had no issues with using the MB tech and even MB engines in some models to make the range more accessible and sector competitive, the move to complete abandonment of any bespoke powertrain design and development did not have to be inevitable (no signs of Porsche, Ferrari et al going that way) - and I for one find it depressing.
It was heritage, history, a bit of Top Gear but above all a unique product (yes, always a little flawed, but always with bespoke/unique engines) that contributed hugely to making AML the coolest ‘brand’ in the world - I am curious to see what comes next.
With the discontinuation of the spectacular and now, undeservedly short lived Aston Martin engine design number thirty-one (AE31) the twin turbo V12, the company are quietly bringing to an end decades of tradition of deep involvement in designing and developing their own exclusive powertrains.
It is a huge milestone, one that Andy Palmer, despite his mistakes, was determined to avoid. It is a point from which there is usually no return.
While I had no issues with using the MB tech and even MB engines in some models to make the range more accessible and sector competitive, the move to complete abandonment of any bespoke powertrain design and development did not have to be inevitable (no signs of Porsche, Ferrari et al going that way) - and I for one find it depressing.
It was heritage, history, a bit of Top Gear but above all a unique product (yes, always a little flawed, but always with bespoke/unique engines) that contributed hugely to making AML the coolest ‘brand’ in the world - I am curious to see what comes next.
Edited by Calinours on Friday 21st April 12:42
DMZ said:
What's the reason for dropping the V12 does anyone know? The usual EUxxx compliance and the cost of getting it done presumably? You'd think it's a major USP gone in this era of doom and gloom and the reason why somebody would spend big on a GT.
This explains it quite well…https://youtu.be/2j5_-fQqxfg
db11far said:
Calinours said:
Aston Martins long tradition of having its own exclusive AML engine/s is at an end.
With the discontinuation of the spectacular and now, undeservedly short lived Aston Martin engine design number thirty-one (AE31) the twin turbo V12, the company are quietly bringing to an end decades of tradition of deep involvement in designing and developing their own exclusive powertrains.
Agree. Have no interest in buying the AMGV8 even if it is improved significantly over the AMG version. There is always something valuable in creating it yourself, no idea why they want to stop this given the benefits are negligible and do not extend to their premium DB line in any case. With the discontinuation of the spectacular and now, undeservedly short lived Aston Martin engine design number thirty-one (AE31) the twin turbo V12, the company are quietly bringing to an end decades of tradition of deep involvement in designing and developing their own exclusive powertrains.
Edited by Calinours on Friday 21st April 12:42
Eagerly awaiting the V12 DB12.
M1AGM said:
Today's email:
A blood-pumping ballet of ballistic balance.
Crushing continents, bruising benchmarks, expanding time. Swelling the senses with hand-stitched hedonism, enlightening both driver and cockpit, with new heights of intelligence, and depths of focus, as it slices round corners and finesses the tarmac to its will.
Jesus. It is as if they think their potential customers have been lobotomised or are all about twelve years old, so employ similar specimens to write this garbage. Will they ever learn?A blood-pumping ballet of ballistic balance.
Crushing continents, bruising benchmarks, expanding time. Swelling the senses with hand-stitched hedonism, enlightening both driver and cockpit, with new heights of intelligence, and depths of focus, as it slices round corners and finesses the tarmac to its will.
Dewi 2 said:
Then we come to the question, of what does Lawrence Stroll really mean by, "a proper English accent"?
Edited by Dewi 2 on Friday 19th May 19:26
I would consider that the opportunity to use ‘LS’ in place of DB has passed. It appears that it will not be long before the consortium loses its controlling interest.
Geely may just bring some Chinese pragmatism, they will just want to create good product, and utilise the halo effect and manufacture and sell more cars at a profit, be they EV or ICE powertrain. Maybe these days of overblown hyperbolic nonsense may soon be coming to an end.
Looking forward to the reveal of the facelifted AMG V8 DB11 tomorrow. I also hope they sell and allow the company to soldier on a little longer.
What’s the betting on the names for the ‘launch style’??
Silvery white paint, interior ‘inspired’ by Ralph Lauren, the ‘Canadian fashionista’
- yours for a 50k premium.
Geely may just bring some Chinese pragmatism, they will just want to create good product, and utilise the halo effect and manufacture and sell more cars at a profit, be they EV or ICE powertrain. Maybe these days of overblown hyperbolic nonsense may soon be coming to an end.
Looking forward to the reveal of the facelifted AMG V8 DB11 tomorrow. I also hope they sell and allow the company to soldier on a little longer.
What’s the betting on the names for the ‘launch style’??
Silvery white paint, interior ‘inspired’ by Ralph Lauren, the ‘Canadian fashionista’
- yours for a 50k premium. Not necessarily a bad thing. The owners are not the product, they just carry financial liability. That company has already been owned in full or part by private Italians, Canadians and Americans, corporate Americans, various middle eastern concerns and many others. Indian ownership hardly harmed JLR. It may be the only chance the company has got.
Well, no surprise there then. A facelifted DB11 with a revised centre console and one or two other bits (wheels, side strakes). As others have noted, it’s really a DB11.2 with the revised front end apparently designed to satisfy the key Chinese market demand for enormous grilles, and a higher tech interior as now required by all markets.
Looks great from sides and rear, because those bits are, ahem, ’carried over’ from DB11. From the front, the giant gaping chops aren’t to my taste. I prefer the looks of my elegant DB11.1 with its Aston Martin V12 engine
On the engine, the quote as printed in the French magazine and accredited to ‘Simon Newton, Chief Engineer’ translates as “there will be no V12 (available in this car), but the V12 will be available on ‘other models’ from 2024”.
This suggests that the new DBSS or Vanquish, presumably as usual a hotter version of this car may well feature Astons own AE31 5.2l twin turbo motor. Now that is good news. I wonder where it might be built ?
Looks great from sides and rear, because those bits are, ahem, ’carried over’ from DB11. From the front, the giant gaping chops aren’t to my taste. I prefer the looks of my elegant DB11.1 with its Aston Martin V12 engine
On the engine, the quote as printed in the French magazine and accredited to ‘Simon Newton, Chief Engineer’ translates as “there will be no V12 (available in this car), but the V12 will be available on ‘other models’ from 2024”.
This suggests that the new DBSS or Vanquish, presumably as usual a hotter version of this car may well feature Astons own AE31 5.2l twin turbo motor. Now that is good news. I wonder where it might be built ?
Edited by Calinours on Wednesday 24th May 09:16
I wonder if some of those who knocked the DB11’s looks may now reconsider?
IMHO the DB11 V12 was the last of the restrained and classy Aston designs and deserving of addition to the 2004-2018 ‘new classic era’ canon.
I still hope they sell a ton of the revised car, for the companies sake, but like the recent Vantage, I won’t be buying one, ever. Those front ends will not age well.
Agree that Reichmann and Nurnburgler need to step away from the pencils. Callum and Fisker they are not.
IMHO the DB11 V12 was the last of the restrained and classy Aston designs and deserving of addition to the 2004-2018 ‘new classic era’ canon.
I still hope they sell a ton of the revised car, for the companies sake, but like the recent Vantage, I won’t be buying one, ever. Those front ends will not age well.
Agree that Reichmann and Nurnburgler need to step away from the pencils. Callum and Fisker they are not.
Edited by Calinours on Wednesday 24th May 11:30
That’s funny, PH mods appear to have deleted the month-old DB12 thread on the day of the launch of the revised car. Must have been the copies of the french magazine road test that someone posted in the thread. Likely PH have received a stern phone call from someone representing Gaydon…
Seems a bit pointless really, the internet will be awash with photos and opinion on the facelifted DB11 within a few hours.
Seems a bit pointless really, the internet will be awash with photos and opinion on the facelifted DB11 within a few hours.
I was most intrigued by the statement from a senior staff engineer that the V12 would be reappearing in other models from 2024. With no internal engine building capability, that would suggest that one of the regular partners (Ricardo or perhaps more likely Cosworth?) have agreed to manufacture (and breath on) the AE31 for the hotter version of the DB12, be it named Vanquish or DBS.
If true, that would be fantastic news.
If true, that would be fantastic news.
Not at all sold on the front, and while anything would be an improvement on the current interior (in reality the let down was the centre console and stuck on screen) I can’t say I’m blown away. It seems to have McLaren-esque sports seats which while probably just an option may be a bit much in what’s still supposed to be a Grand - sorry ‘super’ Tourer?
The journalists are so FoS, the way they rubbish the older car when something newer comes along, maybe they should revisit what they previously wrote and moderate a little better if they want to retain any form of credibility.
The journalists are so FoS, the way they rubbish the older car when something newer comes along, maybe they should revisit what they previously wrote and moderate a little better if they want to retain any form of credibility.
Edited by Calinours on Thursday 25th May 07:05
j4r4lly said:
Agree also on the almost gleefully spiteful write up regarding his comments on the DB11
There just doesn’t appear to be any respect nor even comprehension for previous genuine technical achievement. The DB11 was actually a genuinely all new car, and it came with an all new downsized and turbocharged V12 engine that was developed in house by AML, and for a competitive price. Wasn’t that also an impressive feat?
Apparently not for this somewhat juvenile PH ‘journalist’ - the original DB11 was ‘crap’…
As to what might be genuinely something, until there can be some ‘finger jabbing’ the jury may have to remain out on just how honest they are being on the ‘in house’ infotainment, others in this thread have suggested it’s actually another reskinned MB system, just better masked.
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 27th May 12:47
Jon39 said:
Calinours said:
’... the jury may have to remain out.. others suggested it’s another reskinned MB system
Almost certainly correct. And that 2nd generation MBUX system has now been used in Mercedes cars for over 3 years.
I heard from different sources that the DB12 would be V8 only. In all the various press reports I’ve seen nothing attributed to AML that changes that. I have however seen reported (and attributed direct to AML) that the V12 may make a return in an ‘all new application’ - which if I had to guess would be the hotter Vanq or DBS version of the new car, following in a year or three, as is usual for AML, and mounting a direct challenge to the 812 or 850 or whatever the Ferrari superfast has become. I think that is really great news. Yes the V12 blocks were already cast in UK, though I’m unsure where the heads were cast, but no reason they couldn’t be done in Bridgenorth also. I’d suspect block and head machining and assembly would be done by Ricardo or Cosworth, and the various supply agreements for all the engine components and ancillaries used during the Cologne machining and assembly phase are likely still largely in place if on hold.
Edited by Calinours on Saturday 27th May 11:44
I have fixed paddles on the DB11 and wheel mounted paddles on the Rangie, both using the same 8-speed ZF box. While it’s true you shouldn’t really be changing gear mid sharp corner there is the odd occasion when you might want or need to. For that reason I much prefer the fixed paddles of the earlier Astons, it’s good to know that the paddle is always going to be where you’d expect it.
However like anything including the good old but much derided sportshift box, or the dog leg 7-speed manual, it’s just something one gets used to and learns to get the best out of and appreciate.
Call me fickle but I have to say I am warming to the design of the DB12, I look forward to seeing it for real, as I suspect, much like the DB11, it might not photograph well and be colour sensitive, but look the business in real life.
However like anything including the good old but much derided sportshift box, or the dog leg 7-speed manual, it’s just something one gets used to and learns to get the best out of and appreciate.
Call me fickle but I have to say I am warming to the design of the DB12, I look forward to seeing it for real, as I suspect, much like the DB11, it might not photograph well and be colour sensitive, but look the business in real life.
Edited by Calinours on Thursday 1st June 17:12
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