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mornin all - first post here although have been visiting PH for some months... Slight dilemma and would appreciate your views. Been driving Imprezas for a number of years, new company car on its way so selling the 03 WRX (highish mileage and soon to be out of warranty otherwise i'd keep it and jazz it up a bit). Looking for an impreza as a 2nd car to be garaged and got out evenings and weekends. I've test driven two P1's and a WRX STI with PPP but just cant decide. I love the classic shape of the P1 but prefer the performance offered by the PPP STI but its ugly in comparison. Looking at spending £15k so I'm limited to the "Bugeye" sti PPP or a later STI in standard form. What would you do.....and dont say "buy an Evo..!" Thanks
Stuart
Stuart
Well i have a P1 and a version 2 RA but must admit I do prefer the classic look. if you want maximum attraction for evening and weekends buy the P1 and get the rally gaphics on it, you wont believe how much attention it draws! And I shouldnt worry too much about the performance difference there really is nothing in it, even my old RA can keep up with the new boys on track. and the P1 has no trouble either.
And as for them going pop mine had a new bottom end on the 20th! lol
And as for them going pop mine had a new bottom end on the 20th! lol
I have the exact car your after. It's an '02 STI PPP type uk bugeye with the black tint style front lamps, which pretty much dissapear against the (audi RS6) graphite black bodywork, which was done by one of the finest places in the country (they do Nick Mason's Ferrari's). Also just had the full £2000 main dealer service too, even covering bits not needed for ages, so it won't need a bean spent for two years plus. Not advertise yet, but mail me if your interested in an ultra clean one 
(p_vantage@yahoo.co.uk)
(p_vantage@yahoo.co.uk)I'd say go for the P1. If it's going to be a weekend / special occasion car, then you need to enjoy everything about owning it.
If you buy the P1, how often do you think you'll say "I wish my car was 0.2 seconds faster from 50-70"?
And if you buy the STI how often do you think you'll say "I wish my car wasn't so damn ugly"?
I'd expect the answers to be 'hardly ever' and 'every time I open the garage door' respectively, so there's your decision.
If you buy the P1, how often do you think you'll say "I wish my car was 0.2 seconds faster from 50-70"?
And if you buy the STI how often do you think you'll say "I wish my car wasn't so damn ugly"?
I'd expect the answers to be 'hardly ever' and 'every time I open the garage door' respectively, so there's your decision.
Thanks for your comments guys...Problem shared is a problem halved..! Cheers for the offer 4WD but I'm leaning towards the P1.
Getting out of a TDI Golf at the end of the day and jumping into a P1 does have more of an appeal....As well as being a more sensible investment long term...I hope to keep for a few years (or until it goes pop..!)
Thanks chaps, that helped...anyone want a red WRX..?
Stuart
Getting out of a TDI Golf at the end of the day and jumping into a P1 does have more of an appeal....As well as being a more sensible investment long term...I hope to keep for a few years (or until it goes pop..!)
Thanks chaps, that helped...anyone want a red WRX..?
Stuart
Hmm... I've driven most of the Subaru range (incl the jap-import stuff) and the P1 is a very good car - for what it is.
The P1 is best in terms of purity and driver involvement when it's on 17inch wheels with 205 width tyres. This means you have to have the smaller brakes as the big brakes (Alcons) don't fit under the 17s. This is not a problem on the road, but on a track you will be better with the 18s and big brakes.
Make sure all the services have been done on time - any lapses are a bit of a warning to be careful. Also, the cambelt should be changed by now.
Look for the usual smoke on start up, any knocking etc. Some owners swear by using Slick 50 in the engine.
STI7/8: more brutal in delivery. the turbo seems to come in with more of a bang and the diffs are more aggressive in the way they deliver their power front/rear and left/right. These cars ARE faster than a P1 (assuming they're Jap spec or PPP) but I found them slightly less involving. The 6 speed box is very good, but maybe not quite as good as a P1's.
However, an STI 7/8 will of course be newer. Bear in mind that a Subaru engine is trying to do a lot - 300bhp out of a 2litre 4 cylinder engine is asking quite a lot regardless of how well it is built and maintained.
If it was me, I'd seek the best P1 I could find with as little mileage as I could find. I'd want no mods and 17inch wheels.
(The 22B - on the right road, was the best of the lot. The quicker steering rack especially makes it better than any Evo/Scoob I've driven. I find Evo's too soul-less, just machines for transporting you from A to B as quickly as possible. The Scoobs are a bit more interesting when you're cruising.)
The P1 is best in terms of purity and driver involvement when it's on 17inch wheels with 205 width tyres. This means you have to have the smaller brakes as the big brakes (Alcons) don't fit under the 17s. This is not a problem on the road, but on a track you will be better with the 18s and big brakes.
Make sure all the services have been done on time - any lapses are a bit of a warning to be careful. Also, the cambelt should be changed by now.
Look for the usual smoke on start up, any knocking etc. Some owners swear by using Slick 50 in the engine.
STI7/8: more brutal in delivery. the turbo seems to come in with more of a bang and the diffs are more aggressive in the way they deliver their power front/rear and left/right. These cars ARE faster than a P1 (assuming they're Jap spec or PPP) but I found them slightly less involving. The 6 speed box is very good, but maybe not quite as good as a P1's.
However, an STI 7/8 will of course be newer. Bear in mind that a Subaru engine is trying to do a lot - 300bhp out of a 2litre 4 cylinder engine is asking quite a lot regardless of how well it is built and maintained.
If it was me, I'd seek the best P1 I could find with as little mileage as I could find. I'd want no mods and 17inch wheels.
(The 22B - on the right road, was the best of the lot. The quicker steering rack especially makes it better than any Evo/Scoob I've driven. I find Evo's too soul-less, just machines for transporting you from A to B as quickly as possible. The Scoobs are a bit more interesting when you're cruising.)
Mileage is not as important as condition.
When you get a test drive take note whether the driver drives slower for the last few miles AND lets the car run for five minutes when he gets out, before switching the ignition off. If he can't be arsed with this ritual then I'd walk away, or at least budget for a new turbo and other parts.
Also ask what oil is in there and what level it's at. Suprising how many don't check it.
If the cambelt has been done make sure the tensioner and bearings have also been done. Some skimp here.
I just had a service for £2000. I could have got it for £1000 or so, if I'd skimped bits a test drive wouldn't even show.
Sounds silly but check the brakes. My new set was 500 quid alone.
When you get a test drive take note whether the driver drives slower for the last few miles AND lets the car run for five minutes when he gets out, before switching the ignition off. If he can't be arsed with this ritual then I'd walk away, or at least budget for a new turbo and other parts.
Also ask what oil is in there and what level it's at. Suprising how many don't check it.
If the cambelt has been done make sure the tensioner and bearings have also been done. Some skimp here.
I just had a service for £2000. I could have got it for £1000 or so, if I'd skimped bits a test drive wouldn't even show.
Sounds silly but check the brakes. My new set was 500 quid alone.
i have just sold a P1 and it would nock a new wrx sti with ppp in to next week and i now have a 05 sti its not as good to drive as the P1 and no one see's a sti on the road but a P1 thay all move over or just stand looking
my P1 had over 65k on the clock and was flat out most the time on and off the track had the car for 3 years best car i have ever had
(The 22B - on the right road, was the best of the lot. The quicker steering rack especially makes it better ) all the sti's have the same rack that come from JDM as in pre my99
>> Edited by mr p1 on Wednesday 12th October 20:43
my P1 had over 65k on the clock and was flat out most the time on and off the track had the car for 3 years best car i have ever had
(The 22B - on the right road, was the best of the lot. The quicker steering rack especially makes it better ) all the sti's have the same rack that come from JDM as in pre my99
>> Edited by mr p1 on Wednesday 12th October 20:43
Ah... what a choice to make!
The P1 is a truely fantastical piece of kit but there are a few things you need to know. When they were imported and converted by Prodrive Subaru suspected that they may have a few issues running at the lower octane rating with this engine, and so they have. Most P1s have gone bang at some point. Mine did about 10k miles ago
(currently on 50k miles).
If you go looking at P1s then make sure the bottom end has been replaced. Check with the dealer to make sure the owner is telling the truth!
Subaru offer an 80,000 miles warranty on all their cars (it gets more expensive as it approaches this figure) however on the P1 they have just reduced this to 60,000 miles because of this problem. It shouldn't be an issue if the short motor has been replaced just bear it in mind.
Apart from that, it's wonderful. Probably the only thing I miss is the trick centre differential from the latest versions (spec C et al) to send more power to the rear for when you want more slidey fun, but as I'm sure a few Vmaxers will attest, it can be made to go plenty sideways anyway.
As for the brakes, I'm not sure. Depends on how much fast driving/track days you will do. I have the prodrive upgraded 330mm discs which STOP the car and do not fade, but they are a little prone to warping and a pad and disc change at a main dealer will cost you £1k.
There are cheaper alternatives, but the standard brakes are pretty good so it's up to you.
As for styling, well, I'm biased. You do get a lot of spotty youths admiring it but then you also get wistful glances from all sorts of people you wouldn't expect. I'd had it a while now so am fairly used to it. Best of all though is that in central London "Da Boyz" seems to leave it alone.
Good luck with the decision. Truth is either way you won't go far wrong.
>> Edited by Smifffy on Thursday 13th October 08:32
The P1 is a truely fantastical piece of kit but there are a few things you need to know. When they were imported and converted by Prodrive Subaru suspected that they may have a few issues running at the lower octane rating with this engine, and so they have. Most P1s have gone bang at some point. Mine did about 10k miles ago
(currently on 50k miles). If you go looking at P1s then make sure the bottom end has been replaced. Check with the dealer to make sure the owner is telling the truth!
Subaru offer an 80,000 miles warranty on all their cars (it gets more expensive as it approaches this figure) however on the P1 they have just reduced this to 60,000 miles because of this problem. It shouldn't be an issue if the short motor has been replaced just bear it in mind.
Apart from that, it's wonderful. Probably the only thing I miss is the trick centre differential from the latest versions (spec C et al) to send more power to the rear for when you want more slidey fun, but as I'm sure a few Vmaxers will attest, it can be made to go plenty sideways anyway.
As for the brakes, I'm not sure. Depends on how much fast driving/track days you will do. I have the prodrive upgraded 330mm discs which STOP the car and do not fade, but they are a little prone to warping and a pad and disc change at a main dealer will cost you £1k.
There are cheaper alternatives, but the standard brakes are pretty good so it's up to you. As for styling, well, I'm biased. You do get a lot of spotty youths admiring it but then you also get wistful glances from all sorts of people you wouldn't expect. I'd had it a while now so am fairly used to it. Best of all though is that in central London "Da Boyz" seems to leave it alone.
Good luck with the decision. Truth is either way you won't go far wrong.
>> Edited by Smifffy on Thursday 13th October 08:32
Thanks smiffy,
When your's went bang what was the damage to your wallet..? How much should I set aside to cover running costs, service, tyres etc each year..? I'm not a boy racer, and probably wont use the car on track days (perhaps 1 trip to the Ring early next year) otherwise it will be well maintained and cared for and driven with respect....It will be my 5th Subaru..!
Incidentally, my brother lives in cenral London and has a 308GTS, the little scroats won't leave the 308 alone, he parked on the street for half an hour at the weekend and some little **** spray painted the windscreen..!
When your's went bang what was the damage to your wallet..? How much should I set aside to cover running costs, service, tyres etc each year..? I'm not a boy racer, and probably wont use the car on track days (perhaps 1 trip to the Ring early next year) otherwise it will be well maintained and cared for and driven with respect....It will be my 5th Subaru..!
Incidentally, my brother lives in cenral London and has a 308GTS, the little scroats won't leave the 308 alone, he parked on the street for half an hour at the weekend and some little **** spray painted the windscreen..!
Mine was under warranty - but I believe the actual cost would have been around £2.5k
The issue isn't the maintenance - Mine is immaculately looked after with a wad of main dealer receipts to prove. The issue is with the octane content here in the UK compared to the setup as supplied in Japan.
The P1s all started life as 2 door coupes in Japan, were imported by Prodrive brand new, stripped down with new suspension, ECU mapping etc etc and then supplied to UK customers.
The issue isn't the maintenance - Mine is immaculately looked after with a wad of main dealer receipts to prove. The issue is with the octane content here in the UK compared to the setup as supplied in Japan.
The P1s all started life as 2 door coupes in Japan, were imported by Prodrive brand new, stripped down with new suspension, ECU mapping etc etc and then supplied to UK customers.
smifffy said:
Mine was under warranty - but I believe the actual cost would have been around £2.5k
Sounds about right. My MY99 had a replacement small block for £1,990 plus the dreaded a couple of years back following a MAF failure. Not a P1 (though similar output) but the cost would be about the same.
How about a version 5 (or 6) STi RA WRC limited edition? Sounds to be about what you're after... Cheaper than a P1, has the same engine but has extra toys like DCCD and a short (but not silly) ratio gearbox and the same quick steering rack as the 22B.
I know that they're a bit rarer than P1s (only 1000 in the world, and most of these are in Japan) but they're a slightly better car. (I am a little biased - the P1 is still a great car...)
Mine's got a reasonable set of coilovers (AST from Powerstation), big brakes from Godspeed, a H&S exhaust system and a Bob Rawle Tek3 remap. Nothing excessive - around 340 bhp and a decent sized power band. There's nothing much on the road that'll out accelerate it (well up to 100 anyway - after that it's a bit slow
) and the handling on the ASTs is fantastic.
Total cost is less than an equivilent milage P1.
I suppose something like this [url]http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=001073;p=1#000000[/url] could be of interest to you? Not seen it for real myself, but could be worth a look.
If you're not too far from Guildford on Monday eveining, you're welcome to meet up and have a look... Just let me know in plenty of time, otherwise I'll be in the other car!
>> Edited by dnb on Friday 14th October 20:14
I know that they're a bit rarer than P1s (only 1000 in the world, and most of these are in Japan) but they're a slightly better car. (I am a little biased - the P1 is still a great car...)
Mine's got a reasonable set of coilovers (AST from Powerstation), big brakes from Godspeed, a H&S exhaust system and a Bob Rawle Tek3 remap. Nothing excessive - around 340 bhp and a decent sized power band. There's nothing much on the road that'll out accelerate it (well up to 100 anyway - after that it's a bit slow
) and the handling on the ASTs is fantastic. Total cost is less than an equivilent milage P1.
I suppose something like this [url]http://bbs.22b.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=27;t=001073;p=1#000000[/url] could be of interest to you? Not seen it for real myself, but could be worth a look.
If you're not too far from Guildford on Monday eveining, you're welcome to meet up and have a look... Just let me know in plenty of time, otherwise I'll be in the other car!
>> Edited by dnb on Friday 14th October 20:14
Thanks dnb, have been on deaths door last few days with a bout of flu hence not responding before.
V 5/6 would make a good alternative. Theres a few nice ones around as well...In terms of average running costs is the P1 going to be cheaper in the long term..? Also do Subaru offer a warranty on V5 or 6's? Never have been too sure when it comes to grey imports..
V 5/6 would make a good alternative. Theres a few nice ones around as well...In terms of average running costs is the P1 going to be cheaper in the long term..? Also do Subaru offer a warranty on V5 or 6's? Never have been too sure when it comes to grey imports..
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