Impreza Handling
Discussion
My 2000 Turbo (classic shape, 5-door) seems to understeer badly on wet or damp roads (especially roundabouts!). The front tyres are Regal RD 3100s and the rears are Bridgestone Potenza S-03s. Has anyone heard of Regal? Is it just my driving or are the tyres crap? Or am I going faster into corners unwittingly now I've got a faster car (the old Mondeo seemed to grip better!)
Should I try swapping fronts to rears or will this make the rear end unstable?
If I floor the throttle mid-drift this sometimes seems to help drag the car round - or have I just found a less slippy bit of road?!
Should I try swapping fronts to rears or will this make the rear end unstable?
If I floor the throttle mid-drift this sometimes seems to help drag the car round - or have I just found a less slippy bit of road?!
Never heard of Regals. But it's not a good idea to have different tyres on an Impreza...
Also, the standard suspension setup is not ideal. Getting this done properly (front camber, front and rear toe is adjustable no matter what garages tell you) will help reduce the understeer - eg "bumpsteer mod" and so-on.
Mine (MY99 STi RA) is forever better now the suspension is set up right.
Also, the standard suspension setup is not ideal. Getting this done properly (front camber, front and rear toe is adjustable no matter what garages tell you) will help reduce the understeer - eg "bumpsteer mod" and so-on.
Mine (MY99 STi RA) is forever better now the suspension is set up right.
A quick Google shows Regal seem to be a South African subsidiary of Dunlop.
Never a good idea to mix brands on a 4wd car.
How long have you had it? There is a certain way of driving 4wd cars to be learned. Adding (some) power does add grip and tighten the line - up to a point, anyway.
Never a good idea to mix brands on a 4wd car.
How long have you had it? There is a certain way of driving 4wd cars to be learned. Adding (some) power does add grip and tighten the line - up to a point, anyway.
I would be very wary of having poorer tyres on the back than the front. As suggested above I'd start by getting some matched tyres all round then see how things go. Generally received wisdom though is that the Prodrive setting of -1 degree camber at the front does help. I run more, which helps turn in but eats tyres quite quickly. (Also a 99 Wagon).
REGAL is LAGER backwards! I had the Prodrive geometry settings done and they ate the inside rims so badly and quickly it was borderline dangerous!
So in my opinion (and remember everyone has one!)
Get some quality tyres all round, (certainly not what you have on the front now) on standard settings and try to get your entry speed right and use a steady or increasing throttle on the way round corners.
Trailing throttle with too high an entry speed will make the car understeer and backing off sharply could cause lift off oversteer (Which you don't want unless it's deliberate and on a track).
Try to build up slowly to learning the car's limits and do it in the wet.
Suddenly finding your cars limit in the dry (and it will have one believe it or not) will happen at rather higher speeds than in an average car so it's best to ease into the whole experience slowly.
Dave
So in my opinion (and remember everyone has one!)
Get some quality tyres all round, (certainly not what you have on the front now) on standard settings and try to get your entry speed right and use a steady or increasing throttle on the way round corners.
Trailing throttle with too high an entry speed will make the car understeer and backing off sharply could cause lift off oversteer (Which you don't want unless it's deliberate and on a track).
Try to build up slowly to learning the car's limits and do it in the wet.
Suddenly finding your cars limit in the dry (and it will have one believe it or not) will happen at rather higher speeds than in an average car so it's best to ease into the whole experience slowly.
Dave
Thanks for all your replies, they confirmed what I was thinking - my Regal tyres are not that good!
I assume the Bridgestones are OK, and may get a couple of these for the front - they're 'only' about £80 each and will make all 4 tyres identical.
I have only had the car since December so I am still learning to drive it.
I have read/seen items about entering corners slowly and accelerating out, but this doesn't always work when you're trying to out-drag someone into a dual carriageway roundabout which then becomes single carriageway! Always striving to be at the front!!!
I assume the Bridgestones are OK, and may get a couple of these for the front - they're 'only' about £80 each and will make all 4 tyres identical.
I have only had the car since December so I am still learning to drive it.
I have read/seen items about entering corners slowly and accelerating out, but this doesn't always work when you're trying to out-drag someone into a dual carriageway roundabout which then becomes single carriageway! Always striving to be at the front!!!
For a 4wd that you'll be wanting to throw about on some less than perfectly surfaced twisties the ideal situation would be to replace all 4 tyres at the same time with a matched set. Expensive though. To my mind it really is worth putting on the best tyres (to suit your car/driving style) that you can possibly afford.
Pirrelli Pzero & Toyo proxes T1-s seem quite popular with some of the scooby owners round here
Pirrelli Pzero & Toyo proxes T1-s seem quite popular with some of the scooby owners round here
The Prodrive geometry set up puts a lot of negative camber on the front, hence the wear on the inner edges. When I had my Scooby I thought that the extra tyre wear was a small price to pay for go-kart handling!
There are two Prodrive set-ups for the rear, one for high speed running (stability) and one for the twisties. For most use the later one is preferable.
With decent tyres a Mk1 Scooby should handle like a big go-kart and the Prodrive setup is excellent with a great turn in and little understeer except at Warp Factor 10!
davidy
There are two Prodrive set-ups for the rear, one for high speed running (stability) and one for the twisties. For most use the later one is preferable.
With decent tyres a Mk1 Scooby should handle like a big go-kart and the Prodrive setup is excellent with a great turn in and little understeer except at Warp Factor 10!
davidy
All good sound advice here. Never mix the tyres - Scoobs are very sensitive to tyre choice and wheel alignment. The best tyres I ever fitted to my Scoobs were Goodyear Eagle F1s - way better than anything else - fantastic wet weather grip.
If you're going to fit a decent set of tyres, do the job properly, fit a decent set of springs and have the alignment done at the same time. Speak to someone like Powerstation who have been doing this kind of thing for years - they transformed my cars.
One other thing - don't confuse handling with grip. Scoobs are basic heavy, four door saloons. At best they are average handling but they do have amazing levels of grip. This is shown up in exactly the kind of conditions you describe (the crap tyres just make it more noticeable). You do have to adjust your driving style and learn to exploit the 4WD setup. When pushed an Impreza will understeer - quite badly sometimes - they certainly aren't delicate RWD cars!
One other thing - if you're using the standard 16" wheels, try 17" - this was always the optimum size for the classic Scoob recommended by Prodrive.
Chris
If you're going to fit a decent set of tyres, do the job properly, fit a decent set of springs and have the alignment done at the same time. Speak to someone like Powerstation who have been doing this kind of thing for years - they transformed my cars.
One other thing - don't confuse handling with grip. Scoobs are basic heavy, four door saloons. At best they are average handling but they do have amazing levels of grip. This is shown up in exactly the kind of conditions you describe (the crap tyres just make it more noticeable). You do have to adjust your driving style and learn to exploit the 4WD setup. When pushed an Impreza will understeer - quite badly sometimes - they certainly aren't delicate RWD cars!
One other thing - if you're using the standard 16" wheels, try 17" - this was always the optimum size for the classic Scoob recommended by Prodrive.
Chris
Hey Chris !
Some good advice there.
cpas - you need to accept that understeer is built in at the factory with the bumpsteer they include as a default characteristic (like nearly all manufacturers these days).
I've spent 8 years (and way too much money
) messing about with my classic to get it the way I like it. I would recommend approaching it in the order;
Decent rubber all round (no point scrimping)
Proper geometry set-up (Prodrive setting are better than std, but people like PowerStation or TSL will do you custom settings with more castor)
Bumpsteer removal
Uprated ARBs/bushes/droplinks
Antilift kit
Eibach sports springs, or if affordable, coilovers with adjustable platforms (I use ASTs currently)
I would suggest getting camber bolts fitted so that you have proper adjustability on the rears.
Try these things one at a time so that you can feel the effect each has and eventually you build up a knowledge of how each adjustment affects the car. You are then in a position to experiment with a set of custom setting which suit you personally.
Remember that all these "improvements" are at the expense of something else. My car currently has virtually no understeer and changes direction much quicker, but the ride is harsh and it has lost a lot of the "planted" feel of the factory settings. The back end in particular is much more "adjustable" shall we call it ? In effect, you swap one set of compromises for another, more personal set.
If you do manage roll-free, neutral cornering with a magic-carpet ride you will have found the holy grail of suspension engineering and will never need to work again.
djfish - you need to corner harder to even out the wear dude
Some good advice there.
cpas - you need to accept that understeer is built in at the factory with the bumpsteer they include as a default characteristic (like nearly all manufacturers these days).
I've spent 8 years (and way too much money
) messing about with my classic to get it the way I like it. I would recommend approaching it in the order; Decent rubber all round (no point scrimping)
Proper geometry set-up (Prodrive setting are better than std, but people like PowerStation or TSL will do you custom settings with more castor)
Bumpsteer removal
Uprated ARBs/bushes/droplinks
Antilift kit
Eibach sports springs, or if affordable, coilovers with adjustable platforms (I use ASTs currently)
I would suggest getting camber bolts fitted so that you have proper adjustability on the rears.
Try these things one at a time so that you can feel the effect each has and eventually you build up a knowledge of how each adjustment affects the car. You are then in a position to experiment with a set of custom setting which suit you personally.
Remember that all these "improvements" are at the expense of something else. My car currently has virtually no understeer and changes direction much quicker, but the ride is harsh and it has lost a lot of the "planted" feel of the factory settings. The back end in particular is much more "adjustable" shall we call it ?
In effect, you swap one set of compromises for another, more personal set. If you do manage roll-free, neutral cornering with a magic-carpet ride you will have found the holy grail of suspension engineering and will never need to work again.
djfish - you need to corner harder to even out the wear dude
Thanks for all the advice. My Bridgestone Potenza S-03s are only 3 months old (I had them put on when I bought the car). Are these considered to be good tyres? So if I buy another 2 for the front I've effectively got a new set of 4. The car seems to grip OK in the dry, but it's crap in the wet. The trouble with these improvements is each corner is different on a daily basis depending on how much diesel's been spilt on it that day, so it's very subjective!!! I suppose 2 tyres and bumpsteer adjustment would be a good start, and new shocks and spings would hepl (as the car's done 65k miles).
Thanks again.
ps The wife keeps a good check on the purse strings - but she's not too bothered about 18mpg!
Thanks again.
ps The wife keeps a good check on the purse strings - but she's not too bothered about 18mpg!
Thanks DJ
S03 is a decent tyre - they were never as highly regarded as the S02s that they replaced (S03s were firmer). I found that they suffered from tram lining when they about 50%+ worn. They are certainly better than the standard fit Bridgestone's though (that said, even the Regals are probably better than those!)
S03 is a decent tyre - they were never as highly regarded as the S02s that they replaced (S03s were firmer). I found that they suffered from tram lining when they about 50%+ worn. They are certainly better than the standard fit Bridgestone's though (that said, even the Regals are probably better than those!)
Gassing Station | Japanese Chat | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff