Discussion
If you want to go even less grip than Michelin Primacy, can you fit Michelin Energy?
Having spent the last 2 years sorting out the suspension and tweaking the geo on my Mk2 MR2, I find that I want less grip so at least I can feel the car has a tendency to slide rather than glue to the road.
The RWD feel is everything on these cars.
Having spent the last 2 years sorting out the suspension and tweaking the geo on my Mk2 MR2, I find that I want less grip so at least I can feel the car has a tendency to slide rather than glue to the road.
The RWD feel is everything on these cars.
lexusboy said:
Best thing to do would be to get rid of the Michelin Prius tyres and invest in some Toyo R1R which come standard on the Evo 10.
Halfway house between the T1R and the R888
Did you know even the Prius doesn't come with the Michelin tyres anymore? The last two we've had come to our showroom have had Toyo Proxes R30 from the factory!Halfway house between the T1R and the R888
I've been following the reviews closely, having never had any interest in what the Japanese produce for the kinds of budgets I've had for cars (except the Civic Type R), I've had good feelings about it since the concept.
Toyota dealer on my way to work has a black demo so I stopped off for a nose. I was going to test drive, but it was an auto (why are all the early demos auto?!) so prefered to wait for a manual.
My thoughts are that I love how compact it is, front end looks great and rear is respectable. Its got a great stance but at the same time its not too showy either.
I know the interior isn't a strong point, but given how negative reviews had been I was actually pleasantly surprised. Its perfectly fine, and far superior to the 'perfectly fine' you get in a RS Clio which is often cited. Plastic isn't top notch but the ergnomics are spot on, contact points are great and the design of the dash, which in pictures looked a bit crap, is in the plastic a nice place to be.
My stumbling block is that 25k is too rich for me for my next car, at 20k-22k I would order one today, but to go that extra and push the finances I'd want to be getting into something Cayman shaped. I know the used/new is an unfair comparison, and if we level the playing field for new that 5yr warranty is unbeatable, it just still feels a little bit too expensive to me. That said, when a RS Megane and Golf GTI are around the same 25k price, objectively I think Toyota have got the price spot on.
As an everyday car, I am still sorely sorely tempted. Really like what I see and I haven't even driven it yet.
Toyota dealer on my way to work has a black demo so I stopped off for a nose. I was going to test drive, but it was an auto (why are all the early demos auto?!) so prefered to wait for a manual.
My thoughts are that I love how compact it is, front end looks great and rear is respectable. Its got a great stance but at the same time its not too showy either.
I know the interior isn't a strong point, but given how negative reviews had been I was actually pleasantly surprised. Its perfectly fine, and far superior to the 'perfectly fine' you get in a RS Clio which is often cited. Plastic isn't top notch but the ergnomics are spot on, contact points are great and the design of the dash, which in pictures looked a bit crap, is in the plastic a nice place to be.
My stumbling block is that 25k is too rich for me for my next car, at 20k-22k I would order one today, but to go that extra and push the finances I'd want to be getting into something Cayman shaped. I know the used/new is an unfair comparison, and if we level the playing field for new that 5yr warranty is unbeatable, it just still feels a little bit too expensive to me. That said, when a RS Megane and Golf GTI are around the same 25k price, objectively I think Toyota have got the price spot on.
As an everyday car, I am still sorely sorely tempted. Really like what I see and I haven't even driven it yet.
OK, I test drove one on Tuesday morning. The roads were damp.
I went into the test drive thinking that £27K was expensive (with the seat option ticked) and came out thinking that the GT86 is a quality piece of kit. I needed convincing that it would be worth the money.
My own review is as follows:
Getting into the car you soon realize that you are sitting quite low with your legs outstretched- more so I felt than in a Boxster. The steering wheel is upright and perfectly placed. The pedals are fine. I didn't heel/toe on my drive so I cannot comment on their suitability for that. The seats are figure hugging, particularly around the waist, and were comfortable. The optional leather/alcantara seats look and feel wonderful.
Driving away from the dealership around a series of roundabouts the car felt very settled, with very little obvious roll. I could not unstick it in a second gear left at a roundabout at all. Going through the gears it was pretty clear that below 4000rpm the engine struggled. Above about 4,500rpm it comes alive - as does the noise which is somewhat like a throaty bark- not quite VTEC but still pretty good and worth working for. The primary damping was very good (better than my R56 Cooper S over bumps) and there was still plenty of tingly feedback - not unlike a VX220 but more refined.
Between 30mph and about 80mph it has brisk acceleration. About as fast as my R56 Cooper S but no faster. How you got there certainly felt more special. The sound for starters, the rev counter which lights up with big red lights when approaching the redline, the sportscar feel, the purity of the experience... What soon became clear though was that you'd have to work quite hard to get the back end into play. It was damp and try as I might I could not get it out beyond a few degrees. It was only on returning to the dealership that I was shown where the nannying electronic controls were! Damn!
The car feels small, but to anyone that has driven a Boxster or VX220 the level of extra space is astounding. The boot is perfectly useable. The rear seats are OK for adults on short journeys - no more. Sitting in the back you find you are looking out of the back window as much as anything else, and my feet were a bit squashed from the low front seats. For kids they'd be fine.
Gadget wise you have everything you'd need. Keyless entry/locking, Touch screen infotainment screen, heated seats (on leather/alcantara option), varying degrees of electronic stability, half decent stereo, no rattles. Despite what I had read the interior didnt feel cheap. Next to a Boxster it may seem lacking but it fitted well with the rest of the car and was well thought out (knee pads when cornering hard, well placed instrumentation).
My overriding impression returning to the dealership was that the car felt like a finely honed piece of kit that had been designed to be what it is from the ground up - ie not a souped up family hatch costing twice as much as the original product that entered the market. It felt more special. Not as common. Like a car you'd have to get to know as opposed to point and shoot. Jay Leno said something along the line of him appreciating a car that has had a single vision of a designer as opposed to a committee. I am not saying the GT86 is quite that but it didn't feel compromised.
As I alluded to before, with many questioning comments, my other considerations as a next vehicle included a Focus ST3, a BMW 125i and similar products. Basically I need at a minimum a 2+2, a reasonable boot, and c£25-27K price tag. I have driven and owned FWD & RWD cars. Both have their merits (space/fun etc).
I am starting to lean again towards the GT86...
I went into the test drive thinking that £27K was expensive (with the seat option ticked) and came out thinking that the GT86 is a quality piece of kit. I needed convincing that it would be worth the money.
My own review is as follows:
Getting into the car you soon realize that you are sitting quite low with your legs outstretched- more so I felt than in a Boxster. The steering wheel is upright and perfectly placed. The pedals are fine. I didn't heel/toe on my drive so I cannot comment on their suitability for that. The seats are figure hugging, particularly around the waist, and were comfortable. The optional leather/alcantara seats look and feel wonderful.
Driving away from the dealership around a series of roundabouts the car felt very settled, with very little obvious roll. I could not unstick it in a second gear left at a roundabout at all. Going through the gears it was pretty clear that below 4000rpm the engine struggled. Above about 4,500rpm it comes alive - as does the noise which is somewhat like a throaty bark- not quite VTEC but still pretty good and worth working for. The primary damping was very good (better than my R56 Cooper S over bumps) and there was still plenty of tingly feedback - not unlike a VX220 but more refined.
Between 30mph and about 80mph it has brisk acceleration. About as fast as my R56 Cooper S but no faster. How you got there certainly felt more special. The sound for starters, the rev counter which lights up with big red lights when approaching the redline, the sportscar feel, the purity of the experience... What soon became clear though was that you'd have to work quite hard to get the back end into play. It was damp and try as I might I could not get it out beyond a few degrees. It was only on returning to the dealership that I was shown where the nannying electronic controls were! Damn!
The car feels small, but to anyone that has driven a Boxster or VX220 the level of extra space is astounding. The boot is perfectly useable. The rear seats are OK for adults on short journeys - no more. Sitting in the back you find you are looking out of the back window as much as anything else, and my feet were a bit squashed from the low front seats. For kids they'd be fine.
Gadget wise you have everything you'd need. Keyless entry/locking, Touch screen infotainment screen, heated seats (on leather/alcantara option), varying degrees of electronic stability, half decent stereo, no rattles. Despite what I had read the interior didnt feel cheap. Next to a Boxster it may seem lacking but it fitted well with the rest of the car and was well thought out (knee pads when cornering hard, well placed instrumentation).
My overriding impression returning to the dealership was that the car felt like a finely honed piece of kit that had been designed to be what it is from the ground up - ie not a souped up family hatch costing twice as much as the original product that entered the market. It felt more special. Not as common. Like a car you'd have to get to know as opposed to point and shoot. Jay Leno said something along the line of him appreciating a car that has had a single vision of a designer as opposed to a committee. I am not saying the GT86 is quite that but it didn't feel compromised.
As I alluded to before, with many questioning comments, my other considerations as a next vehicle included a Focus ST3, a BMW 125i and similar products. Basically I need at a minimum a 2+2, a reasonable boot, and c£25-27K price tag. I have driven and owned FWD & RWD cars. Both have their merits (space/fun etc).
I am starting to lean again towards the GT86...
I test drove a manual today at my local Toyota dealer. Most of what David1976 said is pretty much spot on. Some additional thoughts:
The feel from the car was excellent, especially for electrically assisted power steering. It felt like a recent mark of mx-5 in terms of its handling and feedback.
It is, in my opinion, plenty fast enough for day to day. Like my RX-8 it needs to be in the correct gear at the correct time to go well, but that's half the fun, surely?
It's not as fast as the RX-8 though. Straight line powerhouse, this isn't.
Through the corners it's beautifully composed. It also coped well with some pretty rutted back roads.
It's quiet on a cruise. Refined, even. Under hard acceleration it sounds nice, but I'd have liked it louder. I kept the windows down for most of the drive.
The interior is brilliant, except for the stereo/infotainment thing. It doesn't look like it belongs, instead looking more like they cut a hole for it to go into. And there's no option to delete it. It's too big, underfeatured unless you buy the nav upgrade and generally I'm not a fan.
Leather + Alcantara seats were very comfy indeed. Seating position is excellent.
I think that it would be a pain to fit an isofix base and infant/child seat in there, and a double pain getting the child in and out. But I think it would be possible. Kids in booster seats would probably be great.
I managed to unstick the rear on a roundabout with a bit of extra throttle. Felt quite communicative, and through the twisties it was easy to adjust it on the throttle. This was in the dry (ish).
Overall, I thought it was great. And with the nice seats and metallic paint it comes in at about £27k which seemed pretty reasonable. I think, and hope, that they'll sell a ton of them (though I understand that each dealer has a set number they are allowed to sell initially). The only worry is that the "Moar Powwwwweeerrrr" crowd will scare buyers away. We'll see.
The feel from the car was excellent, especially for electrically assisted power steering. It felt like a recent mark of mx-5 in terms of its handling and feedback.
It is, in my opinion, plenty fast enough for day to day. Like my RX-8 it needs to be in the correct gear at the correct time to go well, but that's half the fun, surely?
It's not as fast as the RX-8 though. Straight line powerhouse, this isn't.
Through the corners it's beautifully composed. It also coped well with some pretty rutted back roads.
It's quiet on a cruise. Refined, even. Under hard acceleration it sounds nice, but I'd have liked it louder. I kept the windows down for most of the drive.
The interior is brilliant, except for the stereo/infotainment thing. It doesn't look like it belongs, instead looking more like they cut a hole for it to go into. And there's no option to delete it. It's too big, underfeatured unless you buy the nav upgrade and generally I'm not a fan.
Leather + Alcantara seats were very comfy indeed. Seating position is excellent.
I think that it would be a pain to fit an isofix base and infant/child seat in there, and a double pain getting the child in and out. But I think it would be possible. Kids in booster seats would probably be great.
I managed to unstick the rear on a roundabout with a bit of extra throttle. Felt quite communicative, and through the twisties it was easy to adjust it on the throttle. This was in the dry (ish).
Overall, I thought it was great. And with the nice seats and metallic paint it comes in at about £27k which seemed pretty reasonable. I think, and hope, that they'll sell a ton of them (though I understand that each dealer has a set number they are allowed to sell initially). The only worry is that the "Moar Powwwwweeerrrr" crowd will scare buyers away. We'll see.
LordGrover said:
David1976 said:
Review
Thanks. Nicely done. Have you tried the others you mentioned?My wife has a Focus Ecotech 1.0 125 (an excellent car in it's own right), and I was tempted by the Focus ST as the latest Focus is such an improvement on the last version and the write up's were positive.
Ephraim said:
Under hard acceleration it sounds nice, but I'd have liked it louder.
I agree! Did the salesman show you the pipe/filter where the noise travels to the inside of the car? I am sure it wouldn't be difficult to make it louder like McLaren did with their latest car when people complained it was too quiet.I am going to test one next saturday, made sure the sales guy has a manual in for me.
Will be interesting to drive, having looked at one in the show room while organising the test my initial observations in the show room (in addition to earlier post about following one);
- the interior looks and feels "cheap", not at all very tactile. If honest, it felt like it was designed 10 years ago in terms of plastic quality
- seating position was excellent and the feel of the steering wheel was good
- shutting the door, felt light and not in a good way, I would have liked a better sounding 'thunk'
- the exterior of the car is really nice, definately better in the metal
Maybe I am unrealistic, but there are many better quality interiors on cars at a third of the price, £25k is a lot of money and given there is very little that is trick on it I am struggling to see the value right now.
So, next week a drive, will give an update on both handling and the question of power.
S
Will be interesting to drive, having looked at one in the show room while organising the test my initial observations in the show room (in addition to earlier post about following one);
- the interior looks and feels "cheap", not at all very tactile. If honest, it felt like it was designed 10 years ago in terms of plastic quality
- seating position was excellent and the feel of the steering wheel was good
- shutting the door, felt light and not in a good way, I would have liked a better sounding 'thunk'
- the exterior of the car is really nice, definately better in the metal
Maybe I am unrealistic, but there are many better quality interiors on cars at a third of the price, £25k is a lot of money and given there is very little that is trick on it I am struggling to see the value right now.
So, next week a drive, will give an update on both handling and the question of power.
S
i personally couldnt live with that lack of power / torque.. even as a daily..
ive owned an rx8 and even that was incredibly frustrating.. if this is slower than a rx8 then.....
would still like to test drive one though.. the volume of these cars being produced (toyota/subaru/scion) i wonder if this will impact 2nd hand values?
ive owned an rx8 and even that was incredibly frustrating.. if this is slower than a rx8 then.....
would still like to test drive one though.. the volume of these cars being produced (toyota/subaru/scion) i wonder if this will impact 2nd hand values?
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