Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[E-bmw]

I absolutely get that in a 7er, but I have had 5 various BM manuals & one auto which I converted to manual I hated it that much, admittedly that was an e39 523 so was quite a while ago.

[Welshbeef]

E-bmw said:

I absolutely get that in a 7er, but I have had 5 various BM manuals & one auto which I converted to manual I hated it that much, admittedly that was an e39 523 so was quite a while ago.

Wouldn’t it have been massively cheaper and not impact the value of the. We to sell the auto and buy a stick shift of that BMW. Unlesss the cars were worth buttons in the first place.

[Riggie]

CustardOnChips said:

The Zf8 in my 535 is brilliant. Changes are so quick and smooth they are barely noticeable.

No hesitation when planting the go pedal and perfectly well behaved at slower speeds.

I have herd people complain about the above being problematic but it tends to be in the lower powered cars like the 520. I suspect the power and torque of the 35d lump suit the box.

Same here - ZF8 matched to 535d is great, love it !

[E-bmw]

Welshbeef said:

E-bmw said:

I absolutely get that in a 7er, but I have had 5 various BM manuals & one auto which I converted to manual I hated it that much, admittedly that was an e39 523 so was quite a while ago.

Wouldn’t it have been massively cheaper and not impact the value of the. We to sell the auto and buy a stick shift of that BMW. Unlesss the cars were worth buttons in the first place.

You are right, it all boiled down to price, I had the bits for peanuts & bought the car at the right price but hated it for the box & had the time & the space, so it didn't cost and didn't affect the value of the car afterwards.

[Wills2]

E-bmw said:

I absolutely get that in a 7er,

I wasn't suggesting it should have a manual box.

[Court_S]

E-bmw said:

They may not be the newest & smartest boxes, but then not everyone drives an auto with the newest smartest box.

To use that argument in defence of autos in general is like saying the iPhone is better than a Samsung because the iPhone 10 is better than a 1980's Samsung.

On the flip side you can’t say all autos are rubbish based on old tech...

[RobM77]

E-bmw said:

I absolutely get that in a 7er, but I have had 5 various BM manuals & one auto which I converted to manual I hated it that much, admittedly that was an e39 523 so was quite a while ago.

I'm no fan of autos, but they have come a long way in the last few decades.

About fifteen years ago my E46 330ci (the worst car I've ever owned), was in the garage having a long list of problems sorted (yet again) and I was given an X3 3.0i as a courtesy car. The auto box was utterly hilarious - so laggy and ponderous it was just ridiculous. Fast forward to the present day with the ZF8 and I've started this thread as I'm wondering whether or not to own an auto. Things really have changed.

[RichardJS]

Poppiecock said:

A modern auto senses how quickly you hit the throttle and behaves accordingly. It also won't drop straight back down if you lift off - it will hang onto the lower gear until it gets another input or 'times out' on its current behaviour.

You've spouted some complete nonsense about auto boxes - so inaccurate it does make me wonder if you have actually driven a modern auto or if this is some kind of story to boost some strange petrol head credentials.

Even the best automatic in the world doesn't know what you're about to do. Perhaps when a direct link between the driver's brain and the car has been developed this will be possible (scary thought!) - but not yet. I have a ZF8 - so one of the best around - and there's always an inevitable delay between pressing the accelerator and the right gear being selected - short but noticeable. This is particularly troublesome when using the throttle to balance the car in a corner. Perhaps you don't do this?

[RobM77]

RichardJS said:

Poppiecock said:

A modern auto senses how quickly you hit the throttle and behaves accordingly. It also won't drop straight back down if you lift off - it will hang onto the lower gear until it gets another input or 'times out' on its current behaviour.

You've spouted some complete nonsense about auto boxes - so inaccurate it does make me wonder if you have actually driven a modern auto or if this is some kind of story to boost some strange petrol head credentials.

Even the best automatic in the world doesn't know what you're about to do. Perhaps when a direct link between the driver's brain and the car has been developed this will be possible (scary thought!) - but not yet. I have a ZF8 - so one of the best around - and there's always an inevitable delay between pressing the accelerator and the right gear being selected - short but noticeable. This is particularly troublesome when using the throttle to balance the car in a corner. Perhaps you don't do this?

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

[toon10]

RobM77 said:

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

I have the zf box and it does indeed change with a tap of the paddle in auto mode. You can use it to get an instant gear change without switching to manual mode for an overtake for example but it takes control back after a few seconds if you don't use the paddles again.

[Jasey_]

RobM77 said:

RichardJS said:

Poppiecock said:

A modern auto senses how quickly you hit the throttle and behaves accordingly. It also won't drop straight back down if you lift off - it will hang onto the lower gear until it gets another input or 'times out' on its current behaviour.

You've spouted some complete nonsense about auto boxes - so inaccurate it does make me wonder if you have actually driven a modern auto or if this is some kind of story to boost some strange petrol head credentials.

Even the best automatic in the world doesn't know what you're about to do. Perhaps when a direct link between the driver's brain and the car has been developed this will be possible (scary thought!) - but not yet. I have a ZF8 - so one of the best around - and there's always an inevitable delay between pressing the accelerator and the right gear being selected - short but noticeable. This is particularly troublesome when using the throttle to balance the car in a corner. Perhaps you don't do this?

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

The 35iS dct I had had some "feature" where you did something and the thing shot off like a rocket. It was something like pull the down shift paddle and press the accelerator - it put it into the lowest gear for the speed you were doing and then accelerated hard.

I only did it once and thank fk I had both hands on the steering wheel !

the 435d and 640d I would just put the car in sport+ and and manual as soon as I saw the corners coming - the problem with these cars is there are too heavy to have any real fun in the twisties.

Edited by Jasey_ on Monday 22 July 16:59

[E-bmw]

Wills2 said:

E-bmw said:

I absolutely get that in a 7er,

I wasn't suggesting it should have a manual box.

and neither was I.

[Poppiecock]

RichardJS said:

Even the best automatic in the world doesn't know what you're about to do. Perhaps when a direct link between the driver's brain and the car has been developed this will be possible (scary thought!) - but not yet. I have a ZF8 - so one of the best around - and there's always an inevitable delay between pressing the accelerator and the right gear being selected - short but noticeable. This is particularly troublesome when using the throttle to balance the car in a corner. Perhaps you don't do this?

I'm not sure I'd want to be 'using the throttle to balance the car' in a big saloon on the public highway. I'll save that for track days.

In all honesty, BMW's firmware on the ZF8, especially in versions where it uses GPS so it knows what's coming up, is more often in the right gear than not. And when it's not, it's just not critical at all. Autos are only really a worry in this respect if they're 'dumb' and will change gear as you apply throttle to drive out of a corner. The ZF8 doesn't do this.

[RobM77]

Poppiecock said:

I'm not sure I'd want to be 'using the throttle to balance the car' in a big saloon on the public highway. I'll save that for track days.

The throttle will always have an effect on the balance of a car when cornering, regardless of speed. For those of us that feel that and are sympathetic to it, we want to do something pleasing (and safe) with that control. Higher revs gives you more control.

[Pioneer]

Wife had a 2017 M4CP and the auto box was a joy to drive off the paddles. She recently swapped into an i8 and that again is quicker and picks the sweet spot better than any human could. Paddles give instant change and you can hold it in gear until the cpu thinks you're going to wreck it. Best gear change I've ever experienced was in my old Lambo with the eGear single clutch box. Once mastered that was so much fun. Better than the replacement in the LP560 albeit not as smooth. Downshifting from 5th to 3rd in a tunnel, just hold on ... oh and that noise. The traffic used to part like the red sea

[Pica-Pica]

toon10 said:

RobM77 said:

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

I have the zf box and it does indeed change with a tap of the paddle in auto mode. You can use it to get an instant gear change without switching to manual mode for an overtake for example but it takes control back after a few seconds if you don't use the paddles again.

Indeed. If you are in D, using the paddles puts you in temporary manual mode, and it will stay there until the engine load is reduced. That can be used for overtaking, going down steep hills or in stop start traffic, where engine braking is useful. If you are in Sport mode, then using the paddles will make it manual only (but with the advantage you cannot rev the nuts off, and also if you brake suddenly to a stop it will go into 1st to pull away).

[bodhi]

I would always prefer a manual, but as I'm after something with the x35i/x40i engine next time round, and the 1/2 Series are too small now, I am kind of resigned that the next BMW I buy will be an auto. I am actually kind of looking forward to it, will be a change after 20 years of manuals, and with the GPS prediciton, Heads Up Display and other tech in the 4 GC's I am looking at, I imagine it will be quite amusing to drive.

It is going to make the next change more expensive than it needs to be however, as I plan on keeping the 125i for the wife/weekend/holidays. I did 1300 miles around the US in a 430i with the ZF8 box, and it was excellent - but I did enjoy getting back into the 1 Series afterwards. That combination of N/A Straight 6, RWD and a manual box is too much fun to sell imo.

Or I might just sell it and buy a manual M3

[Poppiecock]

RobM77 said:

The throttle will always have an effect on the balance of a car when cornering, regardless of speed. For those of us that feel that and are sympathetic to it, we want to do something pleasing (and safe) with that control. Higher revs gives you more control.

I forgot I’m in the presence of driving gods.

[RobM77]

Poppiecock said:

RobM77 said:

The throttle will always have an effect on the balance of a car when cornering, regardless of speed. For those of us that feel that and are sympathetic to it, we want to do something pleasing (and safe) with that control. Higher revs gives you more control.

I forgot I’m in the presence of driving gods.

Gosh, there's no need to be anywhere near a driving god to feel the balance of the car, it's just a basic of driving. Some people are just into that sort of thing and others aren't - I've no problem with either point of view, but they're both valid!

Edited by RobM77 on Tuesday 23 July 14:41

[RobM77]

Pica-Pica said:

toon10 said:

RobM77 said:

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

I have the zf box and it does indeed change with a tap of the paddle in auto mode. You can use it to get an instant gear change without switching to manual mode for an overtake for example but it takes control back after a few seconds if you don't use the paddles again.

Indeed. If you are in D, using the paddles puts you in temporary manual mode, and it will stay there until the engine load is reduced. That can be used for overtaking, going down steep hills or in stop start traffic, where engine braking is useful. If you are in Sport mode, then using the paddles will make it manual only (but with the advantage you cannot rev the nuts off, and also if you brake suddenly to a stop it will go into 1st to pull away).

Hmm; I'm getting the feeling this wouldn't be of use for going into a corner; as I suspect the box would shuffle up and mess the balance of the car up during the corner. I'm guessing the preferred method is just to knock the car into manual mode using the gearstick.