Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[RobM77]

Jasey_ said:

RobM77 said:

Just a quick thank you for putting so much into this thread It's certainly got me thinking about my next car.

I think the new kid will have more of an impact than the choice of transmission in your next car.

Prams are big .

We're currently fine on days out, but holidays are challenging! We tend to go self catering and take sports stuff with us (bikes, boards etc), and my 3 series is quite literally packed to the roof. It's the same story when I go racing. He's 10 months and I'm told it gets easier, but I'm not so sure because surely he'll need more clothes and probably his own bike etc. My hard line is never FWD; I'm not so fussed about an auto, although my wife looked at me in horror when I suggested it

The trouble is that my commute is most of my miles (18k of my 25k per year), and for that I'm either on my own, or with windsurfing stuff on the roof, so the 3 series is fine. The commute's really twisty and has some great driving roads, but I do spend a lot of time in the car and I wonder if a 5 would be more relaxing. The other thing is that the newer F30 3 series I had for the day was very noisy at speed compared to my E90. Not sure if that was just the tyres (17s vs 16s), or if that's just how they are now? I think it would wind me up after a few weeks.

[RichardJS]

Poppiecock said:

RichardJS said:

Even the best automatic in the world doesn't know what you're about to do. Perhaps when a direct link between the driver's brain and the car has been developed this will be possible (scary thought!) - but not yet. I have a ZF8 - so one of the best around - and there's always an inevitable delay between pressing the accelerator and the right gear being selected - short but noticeable. This is particularly troublesome when using the throttle to balance the car in a corner. Perhaps you don't do this?

I'm not sure I'd want to be 'using the throttle to balance the car' in a big saloon on the public highway. I'll save that for track days.

In all honesty, BMW's firmware on the ZF8, especially in versions where it uses GPS so it knows what's coming up, is more often in the right gear than not. And when it's not, it's just not critical at all. Autos are only really a worry in this respect if they're 'dumb' and will change gear as you apply throttle to drive out of a corner. The ZF8 doesn't do this.

I can't believe that you're serious?! I'm not talking about turning stability control off and getting opposite lock on - I completely agree that this would be inappropriate on the road (and would even be frowned upon at a track day). I'm just talking about a bit of accelerator (in the right gear!) helping to rotate the car and then accelerate out of the bend with the car well balanced. Why have a RWD car like a BMW if you're not going to use your right foot to help steer?! This actually gives you more control of the car.

If you don't understand the importance of balancing a car on the accelerator then I suggest that you watch this video by Reg Local, which explains it very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJLNKQxZ98

I agree with you that the gearbox is in the right ratio "more often than not". It's when it's "not" that frustrates me. But on a twisty road with no traffic ahead of me I drop into manual.

As I've said in a previous reply, I understand why a lot of people prefer automatics, especially if they mainly use their cars to get from A to B in the most relaxing way on busy roads.

[Court_S]

RobM77 said:

We're currently fine on days out, but holidays are challenging! We tend to go self catering and take sports stuff with us (bikes, boards etc), and my 3 series is quite literally packed to the roof. It's the same story when I go racing. He's 10 months and I'm told it gets easier, but I'm not so sure because surely he'll need more clothes and probably his own bike etc. My hard line is never FWD; I'm not so fussed about an auto, although my wife looked at me in horror when I suggested it

The trouble is that my commute is most of my miles (18k of my 25k per year), and for that I'm either on my own, or with windsurfing stuff on the roof, so the 3 series is fine. The commute's really twisty and has some great driving roads, but I do spend a lot of time in the car and I wonder if a 5 would be more relaxing. The other thing is that the newer F30 3 series I had for the day was very noisy at speed compared to my E90. Not sure if that was just the tyres (17s vs 16s), or if that's just how they are now? I think it would wind me up after a few weeks.

It does get easier in trim of stuff that you need to lug around, especially once they’re walking. It was easy taking out little ‘uns balance bike everywhere with us, but his 20 inch bike takes up an awful lot more room. Trouble is pretty much every BMW is a reverse tardis! I loved my E90 but it was a bloody useless load lugger; my vRS has spoilt me there. Pick it up, lob it in and don’t think about it. Stepping down size wise to a 1 series will be interesting for sure.

I thought the F30 I drove was a step up from my E90 in terms of refinement but my E90 was an M Sport with RFT’s so not the most relaxing thing. The 330d xd on 19’s was surprisingly comfy in comparison. A 5 is more relaxing but the F10 onwards is sodding massive.

[Poppiecock]

The F30 was a cheaply built heap of junk, closely related to the F20 1-series.

It’s night and day between an F30 and F10 5 series. I tested them back to back and went F10. Still miss that car, but I can’t justify the BIK on a new 5.

[RobM77]

Poppiecock said:

The F30 was a cheaply built heap of junk, closely related to the F20 1-series.

It’s night and day between an F30 and F10 5 series. I tested them back to back and went F10. Still miss that car, but I can’t justify the BIK on a new 5.

That’s interesting, cause I think I read that the F10 is based on the 7 series...

[Poppiecock]

RobM77 said:

That’s interesting, cause I think I read that the F10 is based on the 7 series...

You’re right, which is why it’s so much better than the F30.

[PixelpeepS3]

always had manuals until i signed up for a 'too good to be true' lease deal on a Mk7 Golf R DSG back in 2014.

I wouldn't have anything else now, You can use the paddles in sport if you want to have a blip up and down etc.

Unavoidable facts, certainly for the DSG on the Golf and then my audi S3 after it:

1) you'll never manually shift as fast
2) it's better on fuel
3) your left leg WILL thank you for it if you use your car anywhere near city centre traffic
4) you get 0.4 seconds of willy waving rights over the manual versions/owners .

i miss a manual box for around a minute, every four years or so

[thecrow]

I've always had manuals until now (in hugely varied cars, with the exception of an e39 540). I've had my manual e46 M3 ten years and found using the engine and the box together effectively to be really satisfying. That said, I'm lucky that I only really drive 'for fun' but on the occasions where I found myself doing a long journey in traffic, it did occur to me that I'd prefer not to have to bother with the clutch.

I added an M6GC to my driveway in March, and for pottering around I certainly wouldn't go back to a manual. It just shuffles me along effortlessly. I also find it means I drive in a more relaxed way as I'm not working through the gears. One thing I have found however (especially since the Evolve stage 1 map) is that asking anything aggressive out of the gearbox upsets traction far too readily. I'm having to learn to drive around the torque and as such am finding that switching over to manual, locking a gear and being progressive on the throttle is the only way to keep the DSC at bay. Once the DSC cuts in it seems never to let go, and I'm not brave enough for MDM with the map. The days of stamping on the throttle and enjoying kickdown are over, but I accept that is particular to RWD cars of this level of power.

For what it's worth I prefer to change gear with the gear lever - find the paddles a bit too 'playstation'. Might be that I'm just not adjusted to them yet. I also find myself getting easily confused as to what gear I'm in (especially if I've just taken over from the car) but the HUD helps with that. I think I've just got some acclimatising to do with it all though to be honest.

I'm lucky that I can still grab the M3 if I fancy giving my left leg a workout, but I've done that once since March. Obviously the M6 is a nicer place to be, but it is proving to me that my desire to drive a manual is less than I thought it would be. Probably time to think about moving the M3 on...

[RichardJS]

RobM77 said:

Pica-Pica said:

toon10 said:

RobM77 said:

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

I have the zf box and it does indeed change with a tap of the paddle in auto mode. You can use it to get an instant gear change without switching to manual mode for an overtake for example but it takes control back after a few seconds if you don't use the paddles again.

Indeed. If you are in D, using the paddles puts you in temporary manual mode, and it will stay there until the engine load is reduced. That can be used for overtaking, going down steep hills or in stop start traffic, where engine braking is useful. If you are in Sport mode, then using the paddles will make it manual only (but with the advantage you cannot rev the nuts off, and also if you brake suddenly to a stop it will go into 1st to pull away).

Hmm; I'm getting the feeling this wouldn't be of use for going into a corner; as I suspect the box would shuffle up and mess the balance of the car up during the corner. I'm guessing the preferred method is just to knock the car into manual mode using the gearstick.

Yes - that's what I do. I tried using the temporary manual mode as you described but found it unpredictable about when it went back into Auto. It seemed to me - but I'm not sure - that it reverts to Auto when the gear you've manually selected is the same as it would be in Auto.

[Pica-Pica]

RobM77 said:

Pica-Pica said:

toon10 said:

RobM77 said:

Could someone with a recent auto BMW fitted with paddles confirm whether you can simply tap a paddle to get the car out of auto mode and shift up or down a gear at the same time? For example, if I had an auto I'd want to be able to cruise along a straight or busy stretch of road in auto mode (e.g. 50mph in 7th), then if I arrived at a decent set of bends I'd want to tap the "-" paddle to instantly change down a gear or two (e.g. 50mph in 3rd), plus to also switch to manual mode in that single action so the car will hold that gear through the bends. The auto 3 series I borrowed a few weeks ago didn't have paddles, so you had to kick the lever over and use that, which was quite awkward, and the gear indicator was in tiny lettering on the dash - far from ideal for B road fun. I'd miss the interaction of a manual box (I rev match every gearchange and rather like changing gear), but at the very least I'd want an auto box to be instantly at my beck and call if I wanted it to be.

I have the zf box and it does indeed change with a tap of the paddle in auto mode. You can use it to get an instant gear change without switching to manual mode for an overtake for example but it takes control back after a few seconds if you don't use the paddles again.

Indeed. If you are in D, using the paddles puts you in temporary manual mode, and it will stay there until the engine load is reduced. That can be used for overtaking, going down steep hills or in stop start traffic, where engine braking is useful. If you are in Sport mode, then using the paddles will make it manual only (but with the advantage you cannot rev the nuts off, and also if you brake suddenly to a stop it will go into 1st to pull away).

Hmm; I'm getting the feeling this wouldn't be of use for going into a corner; as I suspect the box would shuffle up and mess the balance of the car up during the corner. I'm guessing the preferred method is just to knock the car into manual mode using the gearstick.

No, not at all.
a) if you use the paddles to put into temporary manual, then it will hold that as you decelerate it will NOT shuffle up.
b) the auto will change down as you lift off and the Sat Nav will usually read a corner and will definitely read a roundabout ahead and change down so that you the balance of the car can be controlled as you accelerate out (fast or gently - and certainly fast with an X drive 6 cylinder of whatever flavour).

[Pica-Pica]

RichardJS said:

Yes - that's what I do. I tried using the temporary manual mode as you described but found it unpredictable about when it went back into Auto. It seemed to me - but I'm not sure - that it reverts to Auto when the gear you've manually selected is the same as it would be in Auto.

If you select manual, then floor it, it will wait for your choosing to manually change up, or change at the rev limiter. If you choose manual and accelerate gently it will hold that gear until the acceleration is similar to what D would be then switch to D. In my experience it is not unpredictable, but highly predictable. That is, you choose manual, it thinks ‘yes, this feels like a manual drive mode’ and then when your driving relaxes, it thinks ‘OK, feels like we should be in auto-drive mode now’. Of course, if you want fully manual, then you can select that.

[xjay1337]

For those with a 35/40i petrol F20/F30 series cars who have an Auto I would whole heartedly suggest getting the XHP gearbox software.

I have the Stage 3 software and it's brill :-)

If you are close to Windsor let me know and I can point you in the direction of the guy who sorted mine out.

[SidewaysSi]

I would never contemplate an auto. Manual all the way, particularly for the type of driving you do.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

PixelpeepS3 said:

always had manuals until i signed up for a 'too good to be true' lease deal on a Mk7 Golf R DSG back in 2014 and saw my life ebb away.

I wouldn't have anything else now as i’ve lost all desire to enjoy the tactility and sensitivity of a manual , You can use the paddles in sport if you want to have a blip up and down etc but it’s no substitute for a real manual.

Unavoidable facts, certainly for the DSG on the Golf and then my audi S3 after it:

1) you'll never manually shift as fast but who cares? No one has ever thought ‘wish that manual change Injust did had been quicker’
2) it's better on fuel but so is a Prius.
3) your left leg WILL thank you for it if you use your car anywhere near city centre traffic if you’re weak, very old and infirm or otherwise incapacitated.
4) you get 0.4 seconds of willy waving rights over the manual versions/owners who will look at you and shake their heads in sorrow that a) you care and b) that you’ve lost all pleasure in driving.

i miss a manual box for around a minute, every four years or so when I wake up and remember what it is to feel alive.

FTFY.

[The Li-ion King]

It's great for London, where you can even reach blistering speeds of 25 in some parts of Islington Last car was manual, hated the fact the clutch was starting to judder which would mean Dual Mass Flywheel and clutch replacement at some point. Paddles for manual gears is great, doubt I would go back to manual again if given a choice...

[anonymous-user]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

always had manuals until i signed up for a 'too good to be true' lease deal on a Mk7 Golf R DSG back in 2014 and saw my life ebb away.

I wouldn't have anything else now as i’ve lost all desire to enjoy the tactility and sensitivity of a manual , You can use the paddles in sport if you want to have a blip up and down etc but it’s no substitute for a real manual.

Unavoidable facts, certainly for the DSG on the Golf and then my audi S3 after it:

1) you'll never manually shift as fast but who cares? No one has ever thought ‘wish that manual change Injust did had been quicker’
2) it's better on fuel but so is a Prius.
3) your left leg WILL thank you for it if you use your car anywhere near city centre traffic if you’re weak, very old and infirm or otherwise incapacitated.
4) you get 0.4 seconds of willy waving rights over the manual versions/owners who will look at you and shake their heads in sorrow that a) you care and b) that you’ve lost all pleasure in driving.

i miss a manual box for around a minute, every four years or so when I wake up and remember what it is to feel alive.

FTFY.

Not really, just made yourself look a bit silly.

[cerb4.5lee]

REALIST123 said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

always had manuals until i signed up for a 'too good to be true' lease deal on a Mk7 Golf R DSG back in 2014 and saw my life ebb away.

I wouldn't have anything else now as i’ve lost all desire to enjoy the tactility and sensitivity of a manual , You can use the paddles in sport if you want to have a blip up and down etc but it’s no substitute for a real manual.

Unavoidable facts, certainly for the DSG on the Golf and then my audi S3 after it:

1) you'll never manually shift as fast but who cares? No one has ever thought ‘wish that manual change Injust did had been quicker’
2) it's better on fuel but so is a Prius.
3) your left leg WILL thank you for it if you use your car anywhere near city centre traffic if you’re weak, very old and infirm or otherwise incapacitated.
4) you get 0.4 seconds of willy waving rights over the manual versions/owners who will look at you and shake their heads in sorrow that a) you care and b) that you’ve lost all pleasure in driving.

i miss a manual box for around a minute, every four years or so when I wake up and remember what it is to feel alive.

FTFY.

Not really, just made yourself look a bit silly.

I thought it was a good edit in fairness. The amount of times I look at a car and think that it is really nice...only then to notice it only has two pedals and my heart genuinely sinks a bit(I do have an unhealthy bias to three pedals though!).

[Pica-Pica]

Just shared the driving of my wife’s Skoda Fabia 1.2 Tsi up to Scotland for a few days. The manual was OK. Obviously completely different issue was the power compared to a 335d.

One big issue was how cramped three pedal cars are. I have size 10 extra wide shoes (feet) and there is very little foot-room for comfort in a manual transmission.

(I could still carry out a well-planned overtake of a truck that an Audi A6 was too reluctant to do)

[RobM77]

Pica-Pica said:

Just shared the driving of my wife’s Skoda Fabia 1.2 Tsi up to Scotland for a few days. The manual was OK. Obviously completely different issue was the power compared to a 335d.

One big issue was how cramped three pedal cars are. I have size 10 extra wide shoes (feet) and there is very little foot-room for comfort in a manual transmission.

(I could still carry out a well-planned overtake of a truck that an Audi A6 was too reluctant to do)

I also have very wide feet and suffer from the same issue, although in a BMW of course (and most larger cars) there are effectively four 'pedals', with the leftmost one being a 'dead pedal', where your left foot sits most of the time. This is what leads many people to complain the pedals are offset - BMW actually centre the driving position on all four (how you sit most of the time), not just the three active ones. I confess though, when on cruise control, my right foot doesn't have many places to go...

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 25th July 13:57

[PixelpeepS3]

cerb4.5lee said:

REALIST123 said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

always had manuals until i signed up for a 'too good to be true' lease deal on a Mk7 Golf R DSG back in 2014 and saw my life ebb away.

I wouldn't have anything else now as i’ve lost all desire to enjoy the tactility and sensitivity of a manual , You can use the paddles in sport if you want to have a blip up and down etc but it’s no substitute for a real manual.

Unavoidable facts, certainly for the DSG on the Golf and then my audi S3 after it:

1) you'll never manually shift as fast but who cares? No one has ever thought ‘wish that manual change Injust did had been quicker’
2) it's better on fuel but so is a Prius.
3) your left leg WILL thank you for it if you use your car anywhere near city centre traffic if you’re weak, very old and infirm or otherwise incapacitated.
4) you get 0.4 seconds of willy waving rights over the manual versions/owners who will look at you and shake their heads in sorrow that a) you care and b) that you’ve lost all pleasure in driving.

i miss a manual box for around a minute, every four years or so when I wake up and remember what it is to feel alive.

FTFY.

Not really, just made yourself look a bit silly.

I thought it was a good edit in fairness. The amount of times I look at a car and think that it is really nice...only then to notice it only has two pedals and my heart genuinely sinks a bit(I do have an unhealthy bias to three pedals though!).

i guess it all depends on what your daily life consists of.

'average' car ownership of members on here i assume is as follows:

- Petrol head owner
- enjoys the odd spirited blast down a slip road, when someone tries to take the piss, off a roundabout and having more power than average available for
when the circumstances allow.
- understands that owning a higher performance car will mean higher fuel bills, but it's nice to have your cake and eat it sometimes.
- doesn't have a bottomless bank balance for maintenance / fuel / road tax
- can't afford/justify to run/own more than one car so its going to be an all rounder, one that ticks 'most' of the boxes
- higher than average driving skills but not a driving god
- has a job mon-fri which involves driving to and from, averaging 8-25mph on that commute
- prefers a predictable drive whilst not driving for pleasure
- eats the odd sandwich or sips a coffee/tea whilst driving (loud gasp from the safety stacey (lacey?) brigade)
- gets to spend maybe 3% of their total time in the car driving purely for pleasure

to me, i'd rather a car that's right for 97% of the time i use it - case in point, my EP3 civic type-r - great car, hated it for 97% of the time!

DSG S3/Golf R was ideal for my 97% - loved them both. Attempted to try something different, bought a 16 plate manual civic diesel (120bhp) to try and keep commuting costs down. i hate my automotive life right now.