Star Marked Tyres on X Drive Models - Square set up.

[aeropilot]

g3org3y said:

wyson said:

https://youtu.be/-JLvNj3z3oY

Definitely a difference with star marked tyres. I’d go for them too.

Having driven many Golfs on many different tyres, I noticed the OE tyres had the best set of compromises.

I’ve tried aftermarket sportier tyres which made the car handle better but the suspension made more thumping noises and the ride got worse over broken surfaces. I tried after market comfort orientated tyres and the ride improved, but the car felt a bit lead footed and wasn’t as incisive in the corners. The OE tyres best balanced these traits.

No doubt the BMW * tyres are the same, developed specifically for the suspension tune of your car.

The only all season BMW OE option I can find is Pirelli Scorpion Verde and Goodyear Eagle LS2. Both are RFT.

I'd consider the former, but tbh wanted to avoid RFT.

Moreover Michelin CCs, hammer the Pirellis for performance in pretty much every single category: https://alltyretests.com/pirelli-scorpion-verde-al...

Edited by g3org3y on Monday 9th May 21:44

I've got non-staggered 255x50x19 Scorpion Verde RFT's on my F15 X5 40d (factory ticked option) and I've just replaced the set of 4 original factory fitted tyres in the past 3 months, fronts just after Christmas, and rear's last month. They did just over 40k miles, and have coped perfectly in the odd snow and ice we get here in the home counties in the past 5 winters I've owned it. The recently replaced rears had another 5k miles left in them tread wise, but they failed the MOT due to a split down to the steel belts, so had to be replaced at MOT.
I've not got an issue with them in terms of comfort on the square all around 19" rims.

[JNW1]

g3org3y said:

As I mentioned, if it was a staggered set up, I'd be buying Star Marked.

It's because I'm keeping the square, I feel I can deviate from this (as all 4x corners the same)

As I said at the start of the thread, I think that position only makes sense if you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances in terms of size than their non-star equivalent. I don't buy that personally but it's your money and I respect your choice!

[arfur]

I have 245s on the front and 275s on the back of my X3

I'm on tyre set number 3 over 3.5 years and all I buy are the RFT Bridgestones or P-Zeros (this time - for a change)

In 80k miles I've seen no issues at all

hth

[Pica-Pica]

I remember on TyreReviews, this screenshot coming up, which identified some differences between BMW* and aftermarket. I can’t remember any details of the commentary that went with it.

[mekondelta]

Pica-Pica said:

I remember on TyreReviews, this screenshot coming up, which identified some differences between BMW* and aftermarket. I can’t remember any details of the commentary that went with it.

Googling the words came up trumps:-

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/Should-I-Fit-O...

[JNW1]

Pica-Pica said:

I remember on TyreReviews, this screenshot coming up, which identified some differences between BMW* and aftermarket. I can’t remember any details of the commentary that went with it.

And I'd point out (again!) that that comparison relates to tyres designed to a specific brief from BMW's M-division for tyres to be fitted to its M-cars; inferring the same process applies for star tyres aimed at non M-cars is at best a leap of faith in my view.

And in point of fact the advantages offered by those star marked tyres designed for M-cars are (IMO) of questionable benefit for a road car - in the UK I'd value the better wet weather performance offered by the aftermarket MP4S far more highly than the slightly greater precision on a track offered by the star marked equivalent. So even with the latest M3/M4 I think there's case to be made that, unless you do lots to track days, you're actually better off with the non-star marked tyre....

[E-bmw]

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.

Have there? I've seen reports where people have mixed part worn tyres with new tyres and had a problem but I've never seen a report where someone's had a brand new set of non-star tyres fitted in the correct size and that's been shown to cause a problem with the X-drive system. But as there have been "MANY" reported issues I'm sure you'll be able to provide links to some of them....

I wasn't saying there are reports of non-star tyres causing issues, I was saying "is it worth the risk" as X-drive has PROVEN to cause many such issues wrt tyre selection?

Also, that I personally wouldn't risk it.

Sorry, miss-understood/incorrectly answered, what I was meaning was as there have been many issues with tyres on these systems, is the added questionability of the lack of star rating worth the risk, but I was trying to be less wordy, edited it as I was posting & it came out wrong.

Then I missread my own previous post & therefore answered incorrectly. My bad.

[aeropilot]

JNW1 said:

So even with the latest M3/M4 I think there's case to be made that, unless you do lots to track days, you're actually better off with the non-star marked tyre....

I wouldn't disagree with that, as back when I had my E82 135i, I changed to non-RFT tyres, when I had the Birds B1 suspension kit fitted.

I had done a track day in the car prior to the suspension and tyre change, and when I did another track day at same venue, after the suspension and tyre change, the car was noticably worse on the Birds suspension and non-RFT tyres.
But, the car was much, much better behaved on the road with the Birds suspension and non-RFT tyres, which was the reason for the change, given I was doing no more than 1 track day per year, if that.

[E-bmw]

JNW1 said:

Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents.

You seem to be under the belief that the rating is all about size, it isn't.

The compounds are different & are designed by the manufacturer specifically to BMW requirements.

[E-bmw]

E-bmw said:

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

Do you really think a trashed transmission and the mahoosive bills it can generate are worth the chance?

There have been MANY well reported issues with using non-star rated tyres on X-drive models, I personally wouldn't risk it.

Have there? I've seen reports where people have mixed part worn tyres with new tyres and had a problem but I've never seen a report where someone's had a brand new set of non-star tyres fitted in the correct size and that's been shown to cause a problem with the X-drive system. But as there have been "MANY" reported issues I'm sure you'll be able to provide links to some of them....

I wasn't saying there are reports of non-star tyres causing issues, I was saying "is it worth the risk" as X-drive has PROVEN to cause many such issues wrt tyre selection?

Also, that I personally wouldn't risk it.

Sorry, miss-understood/incorrectly answered, what I was meaning was as there have been many issues with tyres on these systems, is the added questionability of the lack of star rating worth the risk, but I was trying to be less wordy, edited it as I was posting & it came out wrong.

Then I missread my own previous post & therefore answered incorrectly. My bad.

Just to simplify all the above for anyone in any doubt.

Here is a car with known sensitivities to tyres and you want to play around with the specs & risk large bills worth of damage.

The obvious answer to me would be is it isn't worth the risk.

[JNW1]

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents.

You seem to be under the belief that the rating is all about size, it isn't.

The compounds are different & are designed by the manufacturer specifically to BMW requirements.

The context of this thread was X-drive and the main thing that causes problems there is differences in rolling circumference - surely it's size that determines that? So what I'm saying is I think a premium tyre from someone like Michelin will be absolutely fine providing it's the correct size, load rating, etc.

Tyres for M-cars aside, I'm pretty sceptical star marked tyres are something special and offer a performance improvement over their non-star equivalents. As has been said already, there's generally a distinct lack of transparency about what the actual differences are from the standard aftermarket tyre but where we do know (i.e. tyres designed specifically for M-cars) it's debatable whether the changed characteristics are actually preferable for road use.

And also bear in mind the star marked tyres for many (most?) of BMW's mainstream models are actually run-flats so are you saying you'd take one of those over a non run-flat from a premium manufacturer simply because the latter lacked a star mark? If so more fool you IMO.

[JNW1]

E-bmw said:

Just to simplify all the above for anyone in any doubt.

Here is a car with known sensitivities to tyres and you want to play around with the specs & risk large bills worth of damage.

The obvious answer to me would be is it isn't worth the risk.

I'd absolutely stick with the sizes and load ratings recommended by BMW so any "playing around with the specs" would relate only to any differences in compound between the star marked and aftermarket tyres - IMO the risk associated with that is negligible if indeed it exists at all.

[E-bmw]

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

Just to simplify all the above for anyone in any doubt.

Here is a car with known sensitivities to tyres and you want to play around with the specs & risk large bills worth of damage.

The obvious answer to me would be is it isn't worth the risk.

I'd absolutely stick with the sizes and load ratings recommended by BMW so any "playing around with the specs" would relate only to any differences in compound between the star marked and aftermarket tyres - IMO the risk associated with that is negligible if indeed it exists at all.

Go for it then & stop trying to justify your theory.

Whether you are right or wrong you will find out.

[E-bmw]

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents.

You seem to be under the belief that the rating is all about size, it isn't.

The compounds are different & are designed by the manufacturer specifically to BMW requirements.

The context of this thread was X-drive and the main thing that causes problems there is differences in rolling circumference - surely it's size that determines that? So what I'm saying is I think a premium tyre from someone like Michelin will be absolutely fine providing it's the correct size, load rating, etc.

And also bear in mind the star marked tyres for many (most?) of BMW's mainstream models are actually run-flats so are you saying you'd take one of those over a non run-flat from a premium manufacturer simply because the latter lacked a star mark? If so more fool you IMO.

No, the context of the question was *marked tyres, you seem to be the one saying it is about size.

While I 100% admit most issues reported are when the sizes are incorrect/worn uneven etc, knowing that these cars have issues with tyre selection I would 100% be ONLY fitting what the manufacturer says to fit.

If you want to differ from that, go for it, not a problem to me at all.

[JNW1]

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

Just to simplify all the above for anyone in any doubt.

Here is a car with known sensitivities to tyres and you want to play around with the specs & risk large bills worth of damage.

The obvious answer to me would be is it isn't worth the risk.

I'd absolutely stick with the sizes and load ratings recommended by BMW so any "playing around with the specs" would relate only to any differences in compound between the star marked and aftermarket tyres - IMO the risk associated with that is negligible if indeed it exists at all.

Go for it then & stop trying to justify your theory.

Whether you are right or wrong you will find out.

I already have found out - I did over 80k miles in my F31 335d and around 60k of those were done on conventional Goodyear AS2's without a star mark. The transfer box was just fine when I sold it......

[JNW1]

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents.

You seem to be under the belief that the rating is all about size, it isn't.

The compounds are different & are designed by the manufacturer specifically to BMW requirements.

The context of this thread was X-drive and the main thing that causes problems there is differences in rolling circumference - surely it's size that determines that? So what I'm saying is I think a premium tyre from someone like Michelin will be absolutely fine providing it's the correct size, load rating, etc.

And also bear in mind the star marked tyres for many (most?) of BMW's mainstream models are actually run-flats so are you saying you'd take one of those over a non run-flat from a premium manufacturer simply because the latter lacked a star mark? If so more fool you IMO.

No, the context of the question was *marked tyres, you seem to be the one saying it is about size.

While I 100% admit most issues reported are when the sizes are incorrect/worn uneven etc, knowing that these cars have issues with tyre selection I would 100% be ONLY fitting what the manufacturer says to fit.

If you want to differ from that, go for it, not a problem to me at all.

The whole context to this thread was the potential implications on X-drive of not fitting star marked tyres. What I'm saying is the problems with transfer boxes on X-drive arise because of differences in rolling circumference front to rear and - IMO - that's a function of size and is in itself nothing to do with whether or not the tyres are star marked.

However, you seem to think non star tyres pose an unacceptable risk even if they're the correct size and load rating so perhaps you can explain why; what properties do you think star marked tyres have that mean fitting anything else potentially spells the end of your transfer box on an X-drive?

In terms of what BMW says to fit, star marked tyres are only a recommendation which in itself suggests they're not critical. And, while I'm happy to stand corrected if there's evidence to the contrary, I don't think BMW has ever refused a warranty claim on X-drive components purely because non star marked tyres had been fitted. In the event there's a problem I think the sort of thing they look at is whether new tyres on one axle have been mixed with worn tyres on the other which takes us back to the issue of rolling circumference...

[Chlorothalonil]

We had a 2007 X3 with non star tyres, brand new when we bought it. Had transmission wind-up issues once they had worn a bit. Swapped to star tyres and the problem went away. Pretty conclusive on that car.

[g3org3y]

Chlorothalonil said:

We had a 2007 X3 with non star tyres, brand new when we bought it. Had transmission wind-up issues once they had worn a bit. Swapped to star tyres and the problem went away. Pretty conclusive on that car.

Staggered set up?

[g3org3y]

JNW1 said:

g3org3y said:

As I mentioned, if it was a staggered set up, I'd be buying Star Marked.

It's because I'm keeping the square, I feel I can deviate from this (as all 4x corners the same)

As I said at the start of the thread, I think that position only makes sense if you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances in terms of size than their non-star equivalent. I don't buy that personally but it's your money and I respect your choice!

It's definitely an odd situation, clearly the X Drive system is very sensitive.

I note this from another thread:

bunchofkeys said:

Bit of a thread revival, but I've been looking around to try and find out more about these * tyres, and i think that it's necessary to have them fitted to an X drive BMW.

I recently bought a MY2010 e70, which was fitted with 3 x Continental ContiSport5 SSR and one Bridgestone Duler (on the rear), all with the * mark. The car would drove without any issues with these fitted.
With the "winter snow, beast from the east" approaching, i thought i would invest in some winter tyres.

So i bought into 4 WinterContacts TS860S, non *, and had then fitted.

Whilst driving about town, i did notice that there was a bit more of a vibration felt in the cabin, and that tight turns would (for lack of a better word) scrub the tyres on the ground.
Worst of all though was when accelerating there would be a jerk/judder throughout the car, much like slipping the clutch in a manual.

Had the X5 checked through by an BMW indy, and then measured the circumference of the front and rear tyres, which were the correct size for the 20" oem staggered alloys.
Turns out that the front were 25mm larger in circumference than the rear and the transfer case needed to adjust different size tyres, hence the jerk when pushing on.

Thankfully i still had the old tyres, so i have the local fitters swap them back over, and the jerky driving/judder/vibrations have now gone.

Seems like i've spent quite a bit on tyres that i can no longer use, which i'm a bit pissed off about (guess i will dump them on ebay), but lesson learnt.
The * mark is a necessity on at least the X drive BMW, and having non * marked tyres can be a costly mistake.

Although i doubt that any BMW, which is not an X drive, would be bothered by the * marks on the tyres, as they are only rear wheel drive.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[E-bmw]

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

E-bmw said:

JNW1 said:

Depends whether you believe star marked tyres are made to tighter tolerances than their non-star equivalents.

You seem to be under the belief that the rating is all about size, it isn't.

The compounds are different & are designed by the manufacturer specifically to BMW requirements.

The context of this thread was X-drive and the main thing that causes problems there is differences in rolling circumference - surely it's size that determines that? So what I'm saying is I think a premium tyre from someone like Michelin will be absolutely fine providing it's the correct size, load rating, etc.

And also bear in mind the star marked tyres for many (most?) of BMW's mainstream models are actually run-flats so are you saying you'd take one of those over a non run-flat from a premium manufacturer simply because the latter lacked a star mark? If so more fool you IMO.

No, the context of the question was *marked tyres, you seem to be the one saying it is about size.

While I 100% admit most issues reported are when the sizes are incorrect/worn uneven etc, knowing that these cars have issues with tyre selection I would 100% be ONLY fitting what the manufacturer says to fit.

If you want to differ from that, go for it, not a problem to me at all.

The whole context to this thread was the potential implications on X-drive of not fitting star marked tyres. What I'm saying is the problems with transfer boxes on X-drive arise because of differences in rolling circumference front to rear and - IMO - that's a function of size and is in itself nothing to do with whether or not the tyres are star marked.

However, you seem to think non star tyres pose an unacceptable risk even if they're the correct size and load rating so perhaps you can explain why; what properties do you think star marked tyres have that mean fitting anything else potentially spells the end of your transfer box on an X-drive?

In terms of what BMW says to fit, star marked tyres are only a recommendation which in itself suggests they're not critical. And, while I'm happy to stand corrected if there's evidence to the contrary, I don't think BMW has ever refused a warranty claim on X-drive components purely because non star marked tyres had been fitted. In the event there's a problem I think the sort of thing they look at is whether new tyres on one axle have been mixed with worn tyres on the other which takes us back to the issue of rolling circumference...

All I have said all along is "I wouldn't be risking it".

That is me.

Stop trying to say I am saying something else for another reason.