RE: BMW releases Z4 M roadster
Discussion
Fantastic news, Z4 has been my favourite roadster ever since it came out, now its perfect.
The M version aside, the 3.0si might tempt people away from the Boxter S as thats getting on for similar power.
That red is definatley not the best colour for the Z4, neither are most of the colours, it may sound boring but its best to stick to the grey, silver and black - definatley avoid the Merlot red
The M version aside, the 3.0si might tempt people away from the Boxter S as thats getting on for similar power.
That red is definatley not the best colour for the Z4, neither are most of the colours, it may sound boring but its best to stick to the grey, silver and black - definatley avoid the Merlot red
I drive a TVR T350 and appreciate the lines of TVR's in general, however I have always thought the Z4 not a bad looking car at all - classic sportscar long nose, snubby back etc - not bad at all. Only the interior to me is shocking - bland and totally un-sportscar like. However sticking an M-series motor in is a good idea and will make this a super little car with excellent driver appeal. Thumbs up BMW. Cheers.
Someone mentioned jelousy, the thing with BMW's is that they used to be excellent looking cars that were great to drive like the m635csi, but now they are trading on that image, I'll put it this way, a 316 compact is not the ultimate driving machine. If BMW want to, they should cut the crap out of the range, like the smaller engined Z4's the bling X5 and the horrible X3. Then they can go and make real aspirational cars. What you experienced was not jelousy but people dissapointed with another average Beemer.
The summary of views here is that while a few people recognise the quality of some of the bits in the Z4, there is almost universal dislike of the way the Z4 looks. As PHers must be fairly typical of the target customers for this car, it does make you wonder how BMW could get it so wrong. And keep doing so. At some point corporate pride has to be pushed aside, surely?
And I for one am not a 'jealous' commentator. Some of the best cars I have owned have been BMWs - gen 1 M3, E34 M5, one of the first E36 320s in the UK. Notice anything? Nothing recent. Spec-wise, the perfect car for me today would be a new M5. But would I want to drive around in an over-sized Darth Vader helmet? Er, no thanks. Maybe in three years time when they are appealingly cheap. Let someone else lose £40k on it.
And I for one am not a 'jealous' commentator. Some of the best cars I have owned have been BMWs - gen 1 M3, E34 M5, one of the first E36 320s in the UK. Notice anything? Nothing recent. Spec-wise, the perfect car for me today would be a new M5. But would I want to drive around in an over-sized Darth Vader helmet? Er, no thanks. Maybe in three years time when they are appealingly cheap. Let someone else lose £40k on it.
vinceh said:
The summary of views here is that while a few people recognise the quality of some of the bits in the Z4, there is almost universal dislike of the way the Z4 looks. As PHers must be fairly typical of the target customers for this car, it does make you wonder how BMW could get it so wrong. And keep doing so. At some point corporate pride has to be pushed aside, surely?
I agree with some of the informed comment on this thread - I didn't fancy a Z4 at all at first, but I now find it easier on the eye and at it is undeniably different and it definitely has a discernable style, even if it's not to everyone's taste.
What you're saying here is not correct though as the 3er outsells the Mondeo, BMW UK is selling record numbers, so someone's buying more than ever. I think someone summed up well earlier, it's now a different market they've gone for - not the Ultimate Driving Machine anymore, that's just a Marketing tag line.
Personally I think the MZ4 is either a lazy and cheap attempt to inject the 'driver appeal' chachet using the parts bin (built in the USA is it really an M car anyway) or it may well be the nemesis for the boxster/cayman in that it'll take their pants down and give them a damn good spanking on road and track.
zod said:I'd have been more convinced they were serious if they'd done this, the CSL is awesome.
Put the CSL airbox on it
It'll no doubt be a great 2nd hand buy once the stealers push on the demo cars.
The comments about the Z4 being ugly are misinformed in my opinion. I didn't really fall for the Z4's shape when it first came out but recently became interested in buying one and took a few out for test drives. The real epiphany occured when I brought a Z4 home and looked at it in the normal lighting conditions that I would see my other cars. The rear end is a very shapely and attractive thing, with the most challenging aspect being the front end with the apparently droopy nose, but if you stop and take the time to look at it without bias it has more appeal than I first realised. Personally I'm intrested in the Alpina S because that cures the Z4 of it's weakest assets namely steering and use of run-flats.
Being a life long BMW 'and' Porsche fan I have a pathological dislike of such a knee jerk reaction. Just because it's a Porsche it 'must' be better, Surely? I've owned a Boxster S after a series of 911s and sold it after a year because it was boring and lacked the character of the 911. I also had an M3 at the same time and would find myslelf always choosing the M3 over the Boxster S.
Fundamentally (for me) the Boxster fails in three areas; firstly it's too big, a roadster should be something that feels small and nimble but I always felt the Boxster felt larger than my 911. Secondly the roof-off experience was poor at anything above 50mph, we tried to drive around with the roof down but found it too breezy (with wind deflector in place) and far too noisy (wind noise). Thirdly, the epitome of a roadster is something like the big Healey, great engine, relaxed driving position and fun. I found the boxster with it's sit up and beg driving position and flat dash was not a very nice place to spend time. It tries too hard to be a sports car yet fails at being a roadster. If I had wanted a sportscar for going really fast, then I'd have stuck with my 911, but the Boxster was neither fish nor fowl.
The Z4 on the other hand is a 'proper' roadster, you can sit back and cruise enjoying the sunshine or you can drive it quickly. When I see a boxster I expect a girl to be driving it, whereas with the Z4 I expect it to be a guy. And the Z4 is small enough to be pukka but not so big and bling that it shouts "look at me" all the time.
So to answer your question about who would choose a Z4 over a Boxster, my answer would be "someone who'd not out to just pose, but wants a usuable day-to-day roadster".
blutusc said:
I don't really like porkers, but as you can basically have a boxter S for the same money, why would anyone in their right mind go for the beemer over that.
Being a life long BMW 'and' Porsche fan I have a pathological dislike of such a knee jerk reaction. Just because it's a Porsche it 'must' be better, Surely? I've owned a Boxster S after a series of 911s and sold it after a year because it was boring and lacked the character of the 911. I also had an M3 at the same time and would find myslelf always choosing the M3 over the Boxster S.
Fundamentally (for me) the Boxster fails in three areas; firstly it's too big, a roadster should be something that feels small and nimble but I always felt the Boxster felt larger than my 911. Secondly the roof-off experience was poor at anything above 50mph, we tried to drive around with the roof down but found it too breezy (with wind deflector in place) and far too noisy (wind noise). Thirdly, the epitome of a roadster is something like the big Healey, great engine, relaxed driving position and fun. I found the boxster with it's sit up and beg driving position and flat dash was not a very nice place to spend time. It tries too hard to be a sports car yet fails at being a roadster. If I had wanted a sportscar for going really fast, then I'd have stuck with my 911, but the Boxster was neither fish nor fowl.
The Z4 on the other hand is a 'proper' roadster, you can sit back and cruise enjoying the sunshine or you can drive it quickly. When I see a boxster I expect a girl to be driving it, whereas with the Z4 I expect it to be a guy. And the Z4 is small enough to be pukka but not so big and bling that it shouts "look at me" all the time.
So to answer your question about who would choose a Z4 over a Boxster, my answer would be "someone who'd not out to just pose, but wants a usuable day-to-day roadster".
paulothegangsta said:What are you trying to say? There was a 316 back when there was the M635CSi too. Now we have cars just
Someone mentioned jelousy, the thing with BMW's is that they used to be excellent looking cars that were great to drive like the m635csi, but now they are trading on that image, I'll put it this way, a 316 compact is not the ultimate driving machine.
as desirable as the old M635CSi in the whole M rage, particularly the CSL of course, although the M6 price is a little silly (except when compared with Mercedes prices).
summit7 said:
I think Zod that as BMW drove expansion through mass market appeal they left us PH's behind for the sake of money. As I have said before, as a company that was in tune with PH's, as a previous buyer/owner of 5 BMW's nothing they sell appeals to me on price/performance/image they have just changed the segment they are selling to and wonder why all of a sudden we don't queue up for their 'sports' models.
I don't want a mass market car that still pretends to be 'special' - Summit
You may not queue up but more people do now than when I joined the brand 4.5/5 years ago!
You should get behind the wheel of a 1 series and an E90 and try an E60 too, as a previous buyer/owner of a 5 series you will see how the product has moved on in handling, response and performance.
p.s they are also higher specs as standard now so you get more for your money too!!
paulothegangsta said:
Someone mentioned jelousy, the thing with BMW's is that they used to be excellent looking cars that were great to drive like the m635csi, but now they are trading on that image, I'll put it this way, a 316 compact is not the ultimate driving machine. If BMW want to, they should cut the crap out of the range, like the smaller engined Z4's the bling X5 and the horrible X3. Then they can go and make real aspirational cars. What you experienced was not jelousy but people dissapointed with another average Beemer.
What a load of shite!!
Here's a short movie shot from the passenger seat of a Z4 !
www.thelangevelds.co.uk/video/Caterham%20vs%20Ringtaxi.wmv
500 horses from Munich vs 135 donkeys from Birmingham!
www.thelangevelds.co.uk/video/Caterham%20vs%20Ringtaxi.wmv
500 horses from Munich vs 135 donkeys from Birmingham!
As a PHer I am always hoping to see great cars from any manufacturer. Never been attracted to BMWs, mainly because of the image and the fact that these days the Ultimate Driving Machine strapline is exactly that - you can't make a car that outsells the Mondeo exiting and special all the time.
Anyway, what surprisies me is that although BMW have been behind some of the greatest sproting saloons ever made, they have never excelled at true sports cars, or roadsters (Evo's Sports Car section lists predominanly open toppers). The Z8 and Z3 missed the mark and in spite of discussion otherwise here, I think a lot of people would not have a Z4 at the top of their list. I am not saying these cars are crap, just that as the acknowledged King of sporting saloons you would expect something a little better from them.
Am I alone in holding this view?
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