M3 Second Hand Margins re: Main Dealer
Discussion
stockhatcher said:
having re read the post, that car defo has about 4k in it, he's just playing a game with you, offer him 2K less asking price, cash in the hand and see him squirm - be prepared to walk though.
Come on!
If you have worked for a main dealer you now how it works so to say something like that is just plain daft and raising his expectations....
Each used car is different with different margins as you should well know.
As you should also be aware, if you read the post the dealer is getting the car from another dealer, which means there will be very little margin, they will be buying fully preped no doubt but will still have to pay for the collection, warranty, M.O.T and any goodwill or missed bits by the first dealer.
We are here to make money of that there is no question, it is up to the buyer to decide if we are taking the p*ss with the price..... look on the web (not private or non-francise dealers) compare spec, mileages but most of all condition, no two cars are ever the same!!!
Happy hunting Massa
maserati3200gt said:
Hi Guys,
Due to order a second hand M3 Convertible tomorrow.
Im curious as to what would be the estimated average margin in an M3 car at the BMW Main Dealer would be if retailing at £28,995
The vehicle we are buying is not an SMG Model (Would this affect the resale value e.g does SMG demand a higher price over manual ?)
Its a 2002 convertible with 33,000 miles - Body Work is Silver with Red Leather interior and FSH.
The vehicle has the 19" Wheels and usual extras but not the Tv Upgraded Sat Nav.
The local dealer is collecting from Up North so to speak and states there is no margin on the retail price even though we are cash purchasers as my local dealer has to collect and warranty the car etc..
What would you guys offer (seriously) to buy a car as described above.
Im lost on these cars and would like a "good deal" so any constructive advice would be great.
Thanks for taking the time out to reply.
Pete
The only way to get money off that car is to contact the stocking dealer, a shity trick if your salesman has put in alot of work, but that way atleast you'll know how much you are paying for your local dealer to handle the transaction!
stockhatcher said:
the dealer may well be purchasing the car from another dealer, - but it could be another dealer within the same group. in whcih case ti will be swapped at siv, so the margin should transfer. also bmw uk frown on dealers that keep hold of stok for themselves without looking after the dealer netwrok as a whole as it stymies sales, so dealers would be encouraged to swap at siv.
Not all dealers swap stock internally for SIV. BMW UK don't frown on dealers for holding onto cars, every dealer is an independant franchise so BMW can't frown on a dealer that has a sort after car and is refusing to give it up.
stockhatcher said:
a car like an m3 should have around 4k in it if the dealership has done its job right and bought the car in at the right price.
Yes it should have, but I think realistically it'd be nearer £3k. Like I said over the page, every car is different.
stuh said:
In that case i would ring the dealership manager and ask why one of his sales staff is prepared to give £2k of the dealerships money away?
I did that, and did not get the answer I expected. They have had the car for just under 60 days. Policy is that after sixty days, they ship it to another dealer in the group, and try again. They simply will not sell for below what they have "put into" the car. A friend of mine has been a very good customer of this dealer, and he spoke to his contact there. He too came away frustrated. They just kept telling him that the car had cost them 28k , with the warranty £1,000 more (this is clearly a complete lie. They are giving the car one month's warranty oover the factory one. This is not £1,000), so they could not sell for less.
Again, they are ignoring the 95% probability that they are not going to get the price they want in the next week. Group policy is that it is better to lose money selling it to trade than to let customers have them at a lower price.
That is, of course, their prerogative. It is my orerogative to walk away, and look at the next one on the list. You cannot buck the market. If no-one will pay 29k for the car, it is not worth 29k.
[quote=stockhatcheras for offering 27k as opposed to 29k, what's to say if you'd offerd 26.5k you wouldn't of done the deal at 27.5k.[/quote]
The fact that he did not counter me.
It is sitting there at 29k, no-one has bought it, and he did not even come back at £28,990, or £28,900. He simply told me his offered price was the price I had to pay.
I trade myself, for a living. In my business, there is pretty much zero value put on "keeping face", and I would sack anyone who traded like this dealer. If I have bought something, it is dropping in price, and I decide I no longer want to hold it, then the price I paid is not a magic number. I sell it for the best price I can.
As I said on the above post, I am not saying this guy has no right to deal like this. His company owns the car, it is their decision where they sell. It is pretty obvious, though, why he trades used cars on a trading estate in Essex, and does not trade interest rates in an office in the square mile.
The fact that he did not counter me.
It is sitting there at 29k, no-one has bought it, and he did not even come back at £28,990, or £28,900. He simply told me his offered price was the price I had to pay.
I trade myself, for a living. In my business, there is pretty much zero value put on "keeping face", and I would sack anyone who traded like this dealer. If I have bought something, it is dropping in price, and I decide I no longer want to hold it, then the price I paid is not a magic number. I sell it for the best price I can.
As I said on the above post, I am not saying this guy has no right to deal like this. His company owns the car, it is their decision where they sell. It is pretty obvious, though, why he trades used cars on a trading estate in Essex, and does not trade interest rates in an office in the square mile.
NB, I don't think it is that different from a trading room in respect of positions that are not working.
In my experience of London & Wall St, many times have I seen a position stopped out, where the dealer still believes it has value...so is given to a colleague or someone else in the room who can use it and start afresh rather than close it out to the best otc bid or anonymously through an exchange.
If the car trader has company policy to sell stale cars to the trade, it may be partly from the point of view he will ultimately receive more flow and further opportunity from his relationship with the other trader.
Plenty more M3 out there, I am sure someone will be happy to hit your bid before long,,,good luck.
In my experience of London & Wall St, many times have I seen a position stopped out, where the dealer still believes it has value...so is given to a colleague or someone else in the room who can use it and start afresh rather than close it out to the best otc bid or anonymously through an exchange.
If the car trader has company policy to sell stale cars to the trade, it may be partly from the point of view he will ultimately receive more flow and further opportunity from his relationship with the other trader.
Plenty more M3 out there, I am sure someone will be happy to hit your bid before long,,,good luck.
clubsport said:
NB, I don't think it is that different from a trading room in respect of positions that are not working.
In my experience of London & Wall St, many times have I seen a position stopped out, where the dealer still believes it has value...so is given to a colleague or someone else in the room who can use it and start afresh rather than close it out to the best otc bid or anonymously through an exchange.
If the car trader has company policy to sell stale cars to the trade, it may be partly from the point of view he will ultimately receive more flow and further opportunity from his relationship with the other trader.
Plenty more M3 out there, I am sure someone will be happy to hit your bid before long,,,good luck.
Well I hope so, thanks.
When I am stopping out, though, I hit the best bid there is. I do not tell people that I prefer to hit a lower bid on the sly, instead of hitting a reasonable bid publically. I just maximise the price I can get. I am probably changing my mind on the desirability of sticking with a dealer. If the car has a 1 year factory warranty left, and has a full service history, then I don't see the problem with just buying from a private seller, as long as I get a full engineer's report.,
northernboy said:
NB, I don't think it is that different from a trading room in respect of positions that are not working.
In my experience of London & Wall St, many times have I seen a position stopped out, where the dealer still believes it has value...so is given to a colleague or someone else in the room who can use it and start afresh rather than close it out to the best otc bid or anonymously through an exchange.
If the car trader has company policy to sell stale cars to the trade, it may be partly from the point of view he will ultimately receive more flow and further opportunity from his relationship with the other trader.
Plenty more M3 out there, I am sure someone will be happy to hit your bid before long,,,good luck.
Well I hope so, thanks.
When I am stopping out, though, I hit the best bid there is. I do not tell people that I prefer to hit a lower bid on the sly, instead of hitting a reasonable bid publically. I just maximise the price I can get. I am probably changing my mind on the desirability of sticking with a dealer. If the car has a 1 year factory warranty left, and has a full service history, then I don't see the problem with just buying from a private seller, as long as I get a full engineer's report.,
Be careful who carries out the report.... I have seen some classic's in my time!!
There are many risks with buying privately so make sure you do your home work on the car and seller, as clever and as sharp as you think you are the crooks are always one step ahead!
Donut said:
Be careful who carries out the report.... I have seen some classic's in my time!!
There are many risks with buying privately so make sure you do your home work on the car and seller, as clever and as sharp as you think you are the crooks are always one step ahead!
Thanks.
Wouldn't you know it, though, I got a call from the dealer's manager yesterday asking what he had to do to win my business. We settled on a price of 27.5k, and I take delivery early next week. It is a 2003/53. 23k miles, excellent condition, 1 owner. I know I could probably have saved a little bit more by shopping around further, but iam actually quite keen on having the dealer back-up, and just wanted to get on and get the car (if you read my earlier posts on general, I have been messing around for a very, very long time trying to work out what to buy).
Anyway, thanks all for the advice so far. I am pretty excited now, and can't wait for them to finish prepping it.
northernboy said:
Be careful who carries out the report.... I have seen some classic's in my time!!
There are many risks with buying privately so make sure you do your home work on the car and seller, as clever and as sharp as you think you are the crooks are always one step ahead!
Thanks.
Wouldn't you know it, though, I got a call from the dealer's manager yesterday asking what he had to do to win my business. We settled on a price of 27.5k, and I take delivery early next week. It is a 2003/53. 23k miles, excellent condition, 1 owner. I know I could probably have saved a little bit more by shopping around further, but iam actually quite keen on having the dealer back-up, and just wanted to get on and get the car (if you read my earlier posts on general, I have been messing around for a very, very long time trying to work out what to buy).
Anyway, thanks all for the advice so far. I am pretty excited now, and can't wait for them to finish prepping it.
Happy M3'ing
DoctorD said:
I have bought and sold enough cars in recent years to see the margin on the cars I have traded in and sometimes it's as little as £2-3K.
How do you figure this? Often the dealer will assign an actual cash value far lower than your trade in price to the car.
In other words, dealers often over-allow on a trade-in against a high sale price to clinch the sale, but would have discounted the car they were selling anyway. They then they sell the trade-in at what appears to you a low price with slim margin.
stockhatcher said:
With respect stockhatcher you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
Are you really trying to tell me that there is an average £4k margin (as in profit) in such a car as a M3 ??
If you saying that I'm afraid that you are very mistaken indeed....
i'm not mistaken, i work for bmw uk, and i used to work in a bmw dealership in car sales. a rare car like a m3 vert if it the right spec will be bought at approx 4k less than it is sold for retail. that is not 4k profit, but it is what they have in it, and knowing dealers they will spend as little as they can get away with, if it need a warranty that's about £160 trade price, some tax at about £160 ( and that's a negotiable) and then whatever else is required in terms of a service, which could be a £1000 or so. but they won't do the service if they can get away with.
so unless you happen to be a current bmw used car sales man, i think you will find that i am right.
wow...you are even more out of touch now than I thought beforehand....
A few facts for you to ponder;
1. The BMW warranty does not cost £160 (IF you do work for BMW or franchise dealer you would know that)
2. The M3 is a "rare car" is it....I don't think so...
3. Any BMW sold within the BMW Approved Used Charter has to have a service if it is needed within 4k miles of the sale mileage (again you SHOULD know that...)
What do you do for BMW UK then ?? You seem to be pretty dismissive of those franchised dealers who (indirectly) pay your salary every month....and no I don't work for a BMW dealer but deal with them 6 days a day through my work.
>> Edited by Gareth W on Sunday 27th November 22:40
Gareth W said:
With respect stockhatcher you haven't got a clue what you are talking about.
Are you really trying to tell me that there is an average £4k margin (as in profit) in such a car as a M3 ??
If you saying that I'm afraid that you are very mistaken indeed....
i'm not mistaken, i work for bmw uk, and i used to work in a bmw dealership in car sales. a rare car like a m3 vert if it the right spec will be bought at approx 4k less than it is sold for retail. that is not 4k profit, but it is what they have in it, and knowing dealers they will spend as little as they can get away with, if it need a warranty that's about £160 trade price, some tax at about £160 ( and that's a negotiable) and then whatever else is required in terms of a service, which could be a £1000 or so. but they won't do the service if they can get away with.
so unless you happen to be a current bmw used car sales man, i think you will find that i am right.
wow...you are even more out of touch now than I thought beforehand....
A few facts for you to ponder;
1. The BMW warranty does not cost £160 (IF you do work for BMW or franchise dealer you would know that)
2. The M3 is a "rare car" is it....I don't think so...
3. Any BMW sold within the BMW Approved Used Charter has to have a service if it is needed within 4k miles of the sale mileage (again you SHOULD know that...)
What do you do for BMW UK then ?? You seem to be pretty dismissive of those franchised dealers who (indirectly) pay your salary every month....and no I don't work for a BMW dealer but deal with them 6 days a day through my work.
>> Edited by Gareth W on Sunday 27th November 22:40
I was going to bite, but couldn't be bothered! Nice kick Gareth!
so then stack what do you really do?
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