6 series prices
Discussion
plasticpig said:
Strangley enough I happen to have some weight figures to hand:
1670 kg Maser 4200
1695 kg BMW 645ci
1717 kg Old Jag XKR
I quite liked the 645 coupe I test drove. It actually seems to hold its prices better than the Jag or the Maser. It dosent look anywhere near as good IMHO though.
What if you put a 100kg (15.74st) bloke in a 645ci and a 76kg (12st)bloke in an XKR, that would make the XKR lighter right? (Albeit by 3Kg)1670 kg Maser 4200
1695 kg BMW 645ci
1717 kg Old Jag XKR
I quite liked the 645 coupe I test drove. It actually seems to hold its prices better than the Jag or the Maser. It dosent look anywhere near as good IMHO though.
Edited by allnighter on Sunday 28th October 15:26
allnighter said:
plasticpig said:
Strangley enough I happen to have some weight figures to hand:
1670 kg Maser 4200
1695 kg BMW 645ci
1717 kg Old Jag XKR
I quite liked the 645 coupe I test drove. It actually seems to hold its prices better than the Jag or the Maser. It dosent look anywhere near as good IMHO though.
What if you put a 100kg (15.74st) bloke in a 645ci and a 76kg (12st)bloke in an XKR, that would make the XKR lighter right? (Albeit by 3Kg)1670 kg Maser 4200
1695 kg BMW 645ci
1717 kg Old Jag XKR
I quite liked the 645 coupe I test drove. It actually seems to hold its prices better than the Jag or the Maser. It dosent look anywhere near as good IMHO though.
Edited by allnighter on Sunday 28th October 15:26
There's nothing wrong with them.
The used maket is never going to big for these types of cars but depreciation is no worse than any other big coupe. Reliablity is just the same as any other BMW as it has 5 series underpinnings.
Looks are obviously subjective but I personally think they are stunning, so much in fact Im thinking of chopping the 535d in for an M6.
The used maket is never going to big for these types of cars but depreciation is no worse than any other big coupe. Reliablity is just the same as any other BMW as it has 5 series underpinnings.
Looks are obviously subjective but I personally think they are stunning, so much in fact Im thinking of chopping the 535d in for an M6.
There are only 3 cars I would entertain upto £150k: the Gallardo Superlegerra, the 997tt and the F430.
However, the substantial savings allow the inclusion of a scandalously depreciated 996tt as well which will I plan to have fission power installed within, thus destroying everything this side of something with 9FF on it's flanks.
The M6 is going nowhere, it is sublime.
However, the substantial savings allow the inclusion of a scandalously depreciated 996tt as well which will I plan to have fission power installed within, thus destroying everything this side of something with 9FF on it's flanks.
The M6 is going nowhere, it is sublime.
Got to say 8TECH old chap if I was your dealer principle i'd have you through door for good
Also if I was in the fortunate position to own an M6 I wouldn't let you anywhere near it!!
If you hate the product you work on so much switch careers this next line may help you in your next one
"would you like large fries with that sir" job satisfaction off the scale eh!
Regards Gandalf.................................
Also if I was in the fortunate position to own an M6 I wouldn't let you anywhere near it!!
If you hate the product you work on so much switch careers this next line may help you in your next one
"would you like large fries with that sir" job satisfaction off the scale eh!
Regards Gandalf.................................
In response to 8TECH's preferred cars of the DB9 and RS6 All I'd say is that I have owned both and the DB9 was prob the worst car reliability wise that I have ever owned it spent more time at the dealers than being driven....
After three trouble filled months the car was handed back to the dealer for a replacement ...and guess what that was just as bad...honestly ive owned lots of cars but never experienced the shoddy workmanship and dealer service as i did with the Aston.
The Audi RS6 was my wifes and although it was a '+' and very quick it was a somewhat wooden driving experience although very rewarding in a straight line the ride was very hard with each pothole sending shudders through the body shell....having said that a great stealth car with the badges removed....
8TECH is obliged to his opinion although his is workshop biased where as ours is ownership biased and during my periods of ownership my 6's have been great and 9 times out of 10 the keys for the 6 are picked up in preference to the other cars in the household, thats how good it is.
After three trouble filled months the car was handed back to the dealer for a replacement ...and guess what that was just as bad...honestly ive owned lots of cars but never experienced the shoddy workmanship and dealer service as i did with the Aston.
The Audi RS6 was my wifes and although it was a '+' and very quick it was a somewhat wooden driving experience although very rewarding in a straight line the ride was very hard with each pothole sending shudders through the body shell....having said that a great stealth car with the badges removed....
8TECH is obliged to his opinion although his is workshop biased where as ours is ownership biased and during my periods of ownership my 6's have been great and 9 times out of 10 the keys for the 6 are picked up in preference to the other cars in the household, thats how good it is.
bullrunner said:
In response to 8TECH's preferred cars of the DB9 and RS6 All I'd say is that I have owned both and the DB9 was prob the worst car reliability wise that I have ever owned it spent more time at the dealers than being driven....
After three trouble filled months the car was handed back to the dealer for a replacement ...and guess what that was just as bad...honestly ive owned lots of cars but never experienced the shoddy workmanship and dealer service as i did with the Aston.
The Audi RS6 was my wifes and although it was a '+' and very quick it was a somewhat wooden driving experience although very rewarding in a straight line the ride was very hard with each pothole sending shudders through the body shell....having said that a great stealth car with the badges removed....
8TECH is obliged to his opinion although his is workshop biased where as ours is ownership biased and during my periods of ownership my 6's have been great and 9 times out of 10 the keys for the 6 are picked up in preference to the other cars in the household, thats how good it is.
I have to say I did look at the DB9 choice and think it somewhat funny, Still what can you say about someone who has a picture of a large toolbox in their profile.........After three trouble filled months the car was handed back to the dealer for a replacement ...and guess what that was just as bad...honestly ive owned lots of cars but never experienced the shoddy workmanship and dealer service as i did with the Aston.
The Audi RS6 was my wifes and although it was a '+' and very quick it was a somewhat wooden driving experience although very rewarding in a straight line the ride was very hard with each pothole sending shudders through the body shell....having said that a great stealth car with the badges removed....
8TECH is obliged to his opinion although his is workshop biased where as ours is ownership biased and during my periods of ownership my 6's have been great and 9 times out of 10 the keys for the 6 are picked up in preference to the other cars in the household, thats how good it is.
It is always so dangerous to make any outspoken post in a car forum. People can be equally passionate about cars from very different perspectives. Mechanics and engineers see things very differently to owner/drivers. For some, if a car only breaks down once or twice but is very good the rest of the time, then that is absolutely fine. Some can live with a car that spends its life being fixed - particularly if its a weekend toy. Others could never live with a car that lets them down - ever.
A proper, good mechanic or engineer will reel in frustration at bad design and poor engineering, even if the car isnt actually that bad. They look and say "oh for god sake, why is that made of such crap alloy!" or "why didnt they just put that there and make an access hole there!" or "Why isn't that finished properly!"
I remember once posting on an 8 forum how disappointed I was with the machined surface finish on the mating faces in various places when I was rebuilding my CSi V12. I may as well have said that I like eating small children..... I was flamed out of the place for criticising BMW, the M Sport division, and poor build quality.
The stats certainly show that the 6 series in general is less reliable than many. The V10 most definitely has a problem with a lack of harmonic balance, inherent high frequency vibration and fractured brackets and pipes (and F1 teams found the same thing!). But if owners here have never experienced it and have only ever enjoyed the M6's monumental torque and undoubtedly thrilling driving experience then of course they will rise in defense of a car that they are delighted with.
I have a slightly different approach to cars than many.
Many only buy cars that are 'cool'. This is fairly low on my list of considerations.
Many only buy cars that stand out and make people stare. I really dont like that when I''m driving.
But few are more passionate about cars than me. I love beautiful design, brilliant engineering and a truly exciting driving experience. I love subtlety and attention to detail. I love cars that surprise and amaze when you really dig deep and ask alot of them - it is a sign of great engineering design.
I hate tacky bits stuck on, cheap materials and unnecessary poor layout with no thought for future maintenance. It really annoys me when you have to remove an engine to replace a fast wearing rubber belt (sorry, Ferrari!). And I get very upset about poor build quality.
I suspect Gerry (8Tech) is much the same but more outspoken! I have seen some of his work and he is undoubtedly a superb mechanic/engineer. He is a perfectionist and has a real eye for detail.
He also certainly doesnt need me to defend him! But I can feel an empathy with his point of view. There is never an excuse for bad design and in this day and age there really is no excuse for unreliablility.
I quite like the 6 series convertible. I think it has real presence and I like many of the subtle details - but I suspect the 6 series in general was released too early and BMW let the owners test the systems and find the faults. The M6's V10 is an over-complex and inherently flawed design - but full of extraordinarily clever ideas. Make the most of it - I reckon it will become very rare in time! I suspect it doesnt have a very long future in BMW's line up.
A proper, good mechanic or engineer will reel in frustration at bad design and poor engineering, even if the car isnt actually that bad. They look and say "oh for god sake, why is that made of such crap alloy!" or "why didnt they just put that there and make an access hole there!" or "Why isn't that finished properly!"
I remember once posting on an 8 forum how disappointed I was with the machined surface finish on the mating faces in various places when I was rebuilding my CSi V12. I may as well have said that I like eating small children..... I was flamed out of the place for criticising BMW, the M Sport division, and poor build quality.
The stats certainly show that the 6 series in general is less reliable than many. The V10 most definitely has a problem with a lack of harmonic balance, inherent high frequency vibration and fractured brackets and pipes (and F1 teams found the same thing!). But if owners here have never experienced it and have only ever enjoyed the M6's monumental torque and undoubtedly thrilling driving experience then of course they will rise in defense of a car that they are delighted with.
I have a slightly different approach to cars than many.
Many only buy cars that are 'cool'. This is fairly low on my list of considerations.
Many only buy cars that stand out and make people stare. I really dont like that when I''m driving.
But few are more passionate about cars than me. I love beautiful design, brilliant engineering and a truly exciting driving experience. I love subtlety and attention to detail. I love cars that surprise and amaze when you really dig deep and ask alot of them - it is a sign of great engineering design.
I hate tacky bits stuck on, cheap materials and unnecessary poor layout with no thought for future maintenance. It really annoys me when you have to remove an engine to replace a fast wearing rubber belt (sorry, Ferrari!). And I get very upset about poor build quality.
I suspect Gerry (8Tech) is much the same but more outspoken! I have seen some of his work and he is undoubtedly a superb mechanic/engineer. He is a perfectionist and has a real eye for detail.
He also certainly doesnt need me to defend him! But I can feel an empathy with his point of view. There is never an excuse for bad design and in this day and age there really is no excuse for unreliablility.
I quite like the 6 series convertible. I think it has real presence and I like many of the subtle details - but I suspect the 6 series in general was released too early and BMW let the owners test the systems and find the faults. The M6's V10 is an over-complex and inherently flawed design - but full of extraordinarily clever ideas. Make the most of it - I reckon it will become very rare in time! I suspect it doesnt have a very long future in BMW's line up.
Edited by Talkwrench on Monday 29th October 10:48
Excellent post Talkwrench! Very balanced and informative.People get very emotional about their cars (I know I do).It's a bit like you criticise a person's choice of girlfriends:"She's alright but I don't like the shrieking noise she makes everytime she laughs".People just don't wanna hear it.
We need people like yourselves to tell it as it is with no BS or emotive contents.For that I salute you.
We need people like yourselves to tell it as it is with no BS or emotive contents.For that I salute you.
Edited by allnighter on Monday 29th October 10:57
Talkwrench said:
The stats certainly show that the 6 series in general is less reliable than many. The V10 most definitely has a problem with a lack of harmonic balance, inherent high frequency vibration and fractured brackets and pipes (and F1 teams found the same thing!). But if owners here have never experienced it and have only ever enjoyed the M6's monumental torque and undoubtedly thrilling driving experience then of course they will rise in defense of a car that they are delighted with.
Given that the 6 also shares a lot of underpinnings of the 5 I assume that this applies to that as well?Edited by Talkwrench on Monday 29th October 10:48
VX Foxy said:
Talkwrench said:
Stuff
Excellent post So...you have £20 to £30k and need something a couple of years old. What would be on your shortlist?
Audis are very well built but rather dull to drive unless you can sneak in an RS4 for another £10k.
I'd go for an older car every time and appreciate the value for money.
How about the very best low mileage 850CSi that you could find? And spend the extra few £k on a few detailed upgrades.
I'd also consider a Noble. For sure, they have their quirks but they are well documented and a factory solution is available for all the common faults (and have usually been retrofitted). I've never driven anything else quite like a Noble. They are truly amazing! More surprisingly, theyre actually quite well screwed together too.
Porsches are beautifully made but it has to be an older model. The newer ones are just getting far too complex and losing their soul, sadly. Not sure I could live with the image, either!
I also have a real soft spot for Astons - simply because they are so achingly beautiful and so unique. I know they break down - but thats poor build quality more than bad design or bad materials. I'd quite enjoy rebuilding it and screwing it together properly!
derestrictor said:
The 911 is an inherently flawed design...
Very true...And there has been some remarkable engineering by some very determined engineers to try and mask its inherent flaw!
But is it really a flawed design? Can a design be flawed if it is exactly how you intended it to be in the first place?
I'm sure Porsche would argue that its the position of the engine that allows the steering to be so delightfully fluid and communicative. There is little doubt that it gives such good traction that 4wd is wasted on the 911.
Roger645 said:
Talkwrench said:
The stats certainly show that the 6 series in general is less reliable than many. The V10 most definitely has a problem with a lack of harmonic balance, inherent high frequency vibration and fractured brackets and pipes (and F1 teams found the same thing!). But if owners here have never experienced it and have only ever enjoyed the M6's monumental torque and undoubtedly thrilling driving experience then of course they will rise in defense of a car that they are delighted with.
Given that the 6 also shares a lot of underpinnings of the 5 I assume that this applies to that as well?Edited by Talkwrench on Monday 29th October 10:48
I know the M5 V10 suffers the same problems. A friend of mine had 3 M5's in 4 months. All failed catastrophically! - and he now drives an RS6.
Do BMW think it's acceptable to build cars that fail like this? I'd love to hear an insider's view on the issues I'm reading about in this thread. Are they embarrassed by it or do they simply consider it the price of a development cycle that they hope will lead to the perfect engine... and when? I get the distinct impression from the extended warranty prices for 'M' cars that they really don't see it as their fault and don't want it to be their problem either.
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