Discussion
Yep, I'm with caboose here - fail to see how a standard 320is would be any quicker than a standard 328i round a track - if they are modded to the same degree then that still holds true.
Granted the E30 might feel more "alive", "involving" but bearing in mind that the E36 M3 (286bhp but heavier than the E30 M£ Evo Sport ) when it came out pretty well trashed the E30 M3 Evo Sport(238bhp) round a track ( both driven by Steve Soper ) I can't see how a std 320is would run away from the 328 on a track road.
Granted the E30 might feel more "alive", "involving" but bearing in mind that the E36 M3 (286bhp but heavier than the E30 M£ Evo Sport ) when it came out pretty well trashed the E30 M3 Evo Sport(238bhp) round a track ( both driven by Steve Soper ) I can't see how a std 320is would run away from the 328 on a track road.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Have you done this, or you just read it on some forum? Keyboard tuning and racing at its best...FYI, the brand new 2.8 crank, the brand new forged Hartge 2.3 conrods and pistons and the Dbillas TBs are sitting in the cupboard at home. Should see nice 11.5:1 out of it. That's how you mod the M50 if you are going to race it.
Yet again, more than welcome to bring the gutsy 2.8 which runs out of puff at 6000rpm and see how it compares to a re-mapped 325i...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Monday 10th December 16:18
anonymous said:
[redacted]
You will be surprised 
BTW - the M54 conversion is very costly, unless you have someone to do it at mates rates - both parts and labour hurt. Better off with an M3 lump if you ask me for the performance vs financial pain calcs...
Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Monday 10th December 18:30
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I am confident because that's what my brother does all day long - baiting 328i and 330i BTW, the car has very little options - no sunroof, no fancy stereo, no extended leather, so it just tips the scales at a tad over 1200kg. Gotcha! If you really are up for it - send me a PM and we will sort it out. If it happens that 325 is trounced, PH will be the first to know. I hope the same rules apply to the 328sanonymous said:
[redacted]
Correct. That's why it is easier to start with the M50. The crank from BMW is a lot more than £500 - we checked, more like £750+Edited by Cheburator mk2 on Monday 10th December 19:45
I have to admit that i would be with Cheburator mk2 on this one. I do think that a stock 320is would go rouond quicker than a stock 328i no matter how much autocar test them because for a start most journalists can't drive.
The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
I did happen to learn this the hard way because in between owning my bmw's i've had a couple of MR2 turbo's. I dyno'd the second one i owned and it produced 280 bhp and my friend had a standard Focus RS and we both went to bedford autodrome to do the GP circuit and i thought i would completely destry him but i didn't because although in a straight line i would beet him, my power didn't make up for the fact that he had better brakes and car handled alot better then mine. Had i uprated my breaks and had wider tyres and uprated suspension it would have been quicker and that did teach that just because its quicker in a straight line does not mean it will be quicker.
I think the same rule would apply with a stock 320is and a 328i.
The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
I did happen to learn this the hard way because in between owning my bmw's i've had a couple of MR2 turbo's. I dyno'd the second one i owned and it produced 280 bhp and my friend had a standard Focus RS and we both went to bedford autodrome to do the GP circuit and i thought i would completely destry him but i didn't because although in a straight line i would beet him, my power didn't make up for the fact that he had better brakes and car handled alot better then mine. Had i uprated my breaks and had wider tyres and uprated suspension it would have been quicker and that did teach that just because its quicker in a straight line does not mean it will be quicker.
I think the same rule would apply with a stock 320is and a 328i.
I have to admit that i would be with Cheburator mk2 on this one. I do think that a stock 320is would go rouond quicker than a stock 328i no matter how much autocar test them because for a start most journalists can't drive.
The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
I did happen to learn this the hard way because in between owning my bmw's i've had a couple of MR2 turbo's. I dyno'd the second one i owned and it produced 280 bhp and my friend had a standard Focus RS and we both went to bedford autodrome to do the GP circuit and i thought i would completely destry him but i didn't because although in a straight line i would beet him, my power didn't make up for the fact that he had better brakes and car handled alot better then mine. Had i uprated my breaks and had wider tyres and uprated suspension it would have been quicker and that did teach that just because its quicker in a straight line does not mean it will be quicker.
I think the same rule would apply with a stock 320is and a 328i.
The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
I did happen to learn this the hard way because in between owning my bmw's i've had a couple of MR2 turbo's. I dyno'd the second one i owned and it produced 280 bhp and my friend had a standard Focus RS and we both went to bedford autodrome to do the GP circuit and i thought i would completely destry him but i didn't because although in a straight line i would beet him, my power didn't make up for the fact that he had better brakes and car handled alot better then mine. Had i uprated my breaks and had wider tyres and uprated suspension it would have been quicker and that did teach that just because its quicker in a straight line does not mean it will be quicker.
I think the same rule would apply with a stock 320is and a 328i.
Draz said:
I have to admit that i would be with Cheburator mk2 on this one. I do think that a stock 320is would go rouond quicker than a stock 328i no matter how much autocar test them because for a start most journalists can't drive.
The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
Remember the E30 320is doesn't have the same chassis set-up as the E30 M3 - it has the slow 4.1 turns lock to lock rack as the rest of the PAS E30 range - not the quicker rack and more caster of the E30 M3. The rear set-up on the E36 is a lot better in terms of camber/toe control.The 320is would have better turn in it would have better balance than the 328i and straight line speed is just one of the things you need to go quick round track. And on a B-road i think the 320is would pull away aswell.
BMW Registry info pages said:
What makes the E30 320is unique?
The E30 320is is a special 3 Series model that was sold exclusively in Italy and Portugal in order to take advantage of the reduced taxes in those countries for cars with engines that displace two liters or less. It is powered by a 1990cc version of the four-cylinder S14 engine developed by BMW Motorsport for the E30 M3 and also shares its close-ratio Getrag gearbox with the M3. However, all other components are standard 3 Series items.
Where was the E30 320is built?
The E30 320is was built on the normal Regensberg assembly line alongside the other 3 Series models.
If the E30 320is is powered by an M engine, why is not badged as an M model?
The reason the E30 320is is not badged as an M model ultimately comes down to marketing: Unlike the limited-production M3, which was created primarily as a competition machine and utilizes many unique exterior body panels and chassis components, the 320is was never intended to be a homologation special. It was conceived instead as a sportier and more affordable alternative to the torquier and more refined 325i, which was taxed heavily in Italy and Portugal due to its 2.5-liter engine.
I also think you ought to see Chris Harris/ Steve Sutcliffe drive before you accuse Autocar journos of having no skills behind the wheel The E30 320is is a special 3 Series model that was sold exclusively in Italy and Portugal in order to take advantage of the reduced taxes in those countries for cars with engines that displace two liters or less. It is powered by a 1990cc version of the four-cylinder S14 engine developed by BMW Motorsport for the E30 M3 and also shares its close-ratio Getrag gearbox with the M3. However, all other components are standard 3 Series items.
Where was the E30 320is built?
The E30 320is was built on the normal Regensberg assembly line alongside the other 3 Series models.
If the E30 320is is powered by an M engine, why is not badged as an M model?
The reason the E30 320is is not badged as an M model ultimately comes down to marketing: Unlike the limited-production M3, which was created primarily as a competition machine and utilizes many unique exterior body panels and chassis components, the 320is was never intended to be a homologation special. It was conceived instead as a sportier and more affordable alternative to the torquier and more refined 325i, which was taxed heavily in Italy and Portugal due to its 2.5-liter engine.
By the way, it was Steve Soper (WTCC/BTCC driver) who drove the cars in the test I referred to - I've heard he's quite good behind the wheel
I'm sure both cars having the same power it would be close but to say
Cheburator said:
The 328i, nice car that it is, will not see which way the 320iS went on track
is stretching belief a little.Far more choice in 328s and probably at a lower price as well as caboosemoose said if you're looking to strip both out as a track car
By all means, buy the 320is if you want something a bit rare and different with an M3-alike engine though
Lots and lots of views in here …. I haven’t got any direct comparison figures but I have:
Owned an M50 Engine 525i Sport
Currently own a E36 328i Sport
Been in my mates E30 320iS [one of the ones posted on the first page]
Owned 2/3 different track cars and done quite a few days.
So I feel can comment to a certain degree on:
Comparing modified cars to standard cars is a waste of time in my opinion, a standard 328i Sport will be slightly faster than an E36 325 – they’re both slow cars though! The E30 320iS is superior as a standard car.
Modified vs Modified – who knows [or cares]
As for which is the best track car – in my opinion E36 328i Sport without a doubt!!
The 320iS is a specialist sought after collector’s item … the 328i Sport is a readily available everyday car. If you have £5k to spend you can either have:
A standard 320iS which will be CRAP on track … it’ll roll round the corners and the brakes will last about 4 corners!
MAJOR corrosion issues with the E30's also!
Or
A Modified 328i Sport [Cage / buckets / harnesses / stripped / uprated brakes and suspension] which will make a VERY good track car [based on a purchase price of £2.5k and £2.5k for mods].
The E36 is a more modern car so parts are more readily available [how many E30’s do you see in your local scrapper??] which in my experience is v important with a track car.
Owned an M50 Engine 525i Sport
Currently own a E36 328i Sport
Been in my mates E30 320iS [one of the ones posted on the first page]
Owned 2/3 different track cars and done quite a few days.
So I feel can comment to a certain degree on:
Comparing modified cars to standard cars is a waste of time in my opinion, a standard 328i Sport will be slightly faster than an E36 325 – they’re both slow cars though! The E30 320iS is superior as a standard car.
Modified vs Modified – who knows [or cares]
As for which is the best track car – in my opinion E36 328i Sport without a doubt!!
The 320iS is a specialist sought after collector’s item … the 328i Sport is a readily available everyday car. If you have £5k to spend you can either have:
A standard 320iS which will be CRAP on track … it’ll roll round the corners and the brakes will last about 4 corners!
MAJOR corrosion issues with the E30's also!
Or
A Modified 328i Sport [Cage / buckets / harnesses / stripped / uprated brakes and suspension] which will make a VERY good track car [based on a purchase price of £2.5k and £2.5k for mods].
The E36 is a more modern car so parts are more readily available [how many E30’s do you see in your local scrapper??] which in my experience is v important with a track car.
Edited by John Laverick on Tuesday 11th December 10:14
r5gttgaz said:
E30s regardless of model fall apart on the track if they ain't modified.
I had a look at the 320is road test last night - I think you were right what you said r5gttgaz in that it's no 2 litre E30 M3.When they had the BMWCC days at Combe the one I saw didn't look that impressive although I am sure they can be modded to handle better
r5gttgaz said:
My choice out of all the E30's would be a 325i Sport or a 2.7 Alpina if I could ever find one.
The 4 banger is good in the M3 / 320is but it really needs about 100 extra bhp.
I've driven a std M3 ( 200bhp ) a few times and also had the use of a 325i Sport for a month or so. Not tried the 320is but it looks an interesting collectible. The 4 banger is good in the M3 / 320is but it really needs about 100 extra bhp.
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