Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[Poppiecock]

I had a 125d Msport.

Absolutely sublime when pointed at a country road with Msport suspension and gearbox in manual sport mode, but as a company car I was glad to see it go! Ride was shocking around town.

[RobM77]

Poppiecock said:

I had a 125d Msport.

Absolutely sublime when pointed at a country road with Msport suspension and gearbox in manual sport mode, but as a company car I was glad to see it go! Ride was shocking around town.

Ah, fair enough, I hardly ever drive in towns.

[cerb4.5lee]

RobM77 said:

Quick thread update for anyone interested: Two weeks ago I test drove a 2014 F10 530d M Sport with the ZF HP8 auto box and I picked it up on Saturday

Nice one Rob!

The ZF8 is a belting auto and the 30d engine is a cracker too.

Enjoy it.

[Court_S]

RobM77 said:

It's a matter of taste I guess and it's nice for us to have the choice. I've only had the briefest of drives in an SE spec F10, many years ago. However, I've had a whole day with an SE spec F30 3 series recently and was utterly horrified; it was a soggy mess. I wasn't very keen on the SE spec 1 series either, so based on that I looked for an M Sport 5 series. I should add that I'm a very keen driver and am very focused on ride and handling, with the emphasis on handling. My last car was a 3 on Birds springs, dampers and ARBs.

I think the later M Sport cars ride much better than the E series cars; my E90 was pretty stiff and crash, but the F series M sport cars I’ve driven seem much, much better. And I agree, the SE ones are soggy / rolly polly. Not very nice or confidence inspiring at all.

[RobM77]

Court_S said:

RobM77 said:

It's a matter of taste I guess and it's nice for us to have the choice. I've only had the briefest of drives in an SE spec F10, many years ago. However, I've had a whole day with an SE spec F30 3 series recently and was utterly horrified; it was a soggy mess. I wasn't very keen on the SE spec 1 series either, so based on that I looked for an M Sport 5 series. I should add that I'm a very keen driver and am very focused on ride and handling, with the emphasis on handling. My last car was a 3 on Birds springs, dampers and ARBs.

I think the later M Sport cars ride much better than the E series cars; my E90 was pretty stiff and crash, but the F series M sport cars I’ve driven seem much, much better. And I agree, the SE ones are soggy / rolly polly. Not very nice or confidence inspiring at all.

It's my experience that SE and M Sport have both softened over the years. For my first E90, a 2007 320d SE, the SE suspension was to my tastes: good control over the bumps, easily balanced in corners, and composed at high lat g without hitting the bump stops. For my second E90, a 2010 320 ED, the suspension was woeful; it made my wife sick and I hated the handling. I’ve driven a number of different BMWs from that era and they echoed this shift too. To conclude, M Sport is now what SE was.

If I can be critical about my 2014 F10 M Sport, I’d say that the secondary ride (small bumps and ruts) is a bit too firm, and the primary ride (large undulations and body roll) is too soft. However, I think that for the secondary ride, this is just a feature of low profile run flat 19” tyres; and the primary ride is a feature of the car’s mass.

[bmwmike]

RobM77 said:

If I can be critical about my 2014 F10 M Sport, I’d say that the secondary ride (small bumps and ruts) is a bit too firm, and the primary ride (large undulations and body roll) is too soft. However, I think that for the secondary ride, this is just a feature of low profile run flat 19” tyres; and the primary ride is a feature of the car’s mass.

Keep in mind you've a boat anchor up front too, 3.0d is a heavy old thing. With my F10 msport I found the ride and damping much better by putting the tyre pressures up near the fully loaded rating as they were too soft at the unloaded setting (iirc 2 bar up front, now I have 2.4 I think ). Worth a try. I was surprised at how much less bounce and roll there is now.

[RobM77]

bmwmike said:

RobM77 said:

If I can be critical about my 2014 F10 M Sport, I’d say that the secondary ride (small bumps and ruts) is a bit too firm, and the primary ride (large undulations and body roll) is too soft. However, I think that for the secondary ride, this is just a feature of low profile run flat 19” tyres; and the primary ride is a feature of the car’s mass.

Keep in mind you've a boat anchor up front too, 3.0d is a heavy old thing. With my F10 msport I found the ride and damping much better by putting the tyre pressures up near the fully loaded rating as they were too soft at the unloaded setting (iirc 2 bar up front, now I have 2.4 I think ). Worth a try. I was surprised at how much less bounce and roll there is now.

Thanks for the tip, I'll try that. My pressures are quoted as 2.2F and 2.3R and that's what I've been running them at. From the BMW dealer as collected it was 2.4F 2.3R. My loaded pressures are quoted as 2.6F 3.1R.

[BFleming]

RobM77 said:

I have to admit, it's not something I'd make much use of, but it's a party trick the ZF8 seems to boast about in all the info I've read. I've also just read in the manual that pulling both together, or the right one for longer, puts the car back in D manually, rather than waiting for the computer to do it.

Pulling both together doesn't revert it to D on mine; it just shifts up to a higher gear (i.e. left paddle takes priority). I haven't tried the long pull though; I will next.
On tyre pressures, the loaded pressures suit the car better (2.6F/3.1R). The normal pressures seem too soft in the front.

[RobM77]

BFleming said:

RobM77 said:

I have to admit, it's not something I'd make much use of, but it's a party trick the ZF8 seems to boast about in all the info I've read. I've also just read in the manual that pulling both together, or the right one for longer, puts the car back in D manually, rather than waiting for the computer to do it.

Pulling both together doesn't revert it to D on mine; it just shifts up to a higher gear (i.e. left paddle takes priority). I haven't tried the long pull though; I will next.
On tyre pressures, the loaded pressures suit the car better (2.6F/3.1R). The normal pressures seem too soft in the front.

Paddles: I was messing with this on the way to work this morning and didn't have much luck to be honest; the results seemed inconsistent. This was an online manual, so it may have not been the right one for my exact model year.

Tyre pressures: I'm definitely trying the higher pressures!

[Jasey_]

RobM77 said:

BFleming said:

RobM77 said:

I have to admit, it's not something I'd make much use of, but it's a party trick the ZF8 seems to boast about in all the info I've read. I've also just read in the manual that pulling both together, or the right one for longer, puts the car back in D manually, rather than waiting for the computer to do it.

Pulling both together doesn't revert it to D on mine; it just shifts up to a higher gear (i.e. left paddle takes priority). I haven't tried the long pull though; I will next.
On tyre pressures, the loaded pressures suit the car better (2.6F/3.1R). The normal pressures seem too soft in the front.

Paddles: I was messing with this on the way to work this morning and didn't have much luck to be honest; the results seemed inconsistent. This was an online manual, so it may have not been the right one for my exact model year.

Tyre pressures: I'm definitely trying the higher pressures!

The more you mess with the paddles the more confusing it gets

[RobM77]

So the higher pressures stiffened both primary ride (which I wanted stiffer) and secondary ride (which I wanted softer). Overall it's a good move Tramlining has increased, but noise is slightly down. I went from 2.2/2.3 cold to 2.5/2.6 cold; note that the full load setting of 2.6/3.1 increases the back way more to account for luggage and rear passengers, which I don't have, so I stuck to the same ratio as the recommended minimum pressures. Thanks for the tip.

[bmwmike]

RobM77 said:

So the higher pressures stiffened both primary ride (which I wanted stiffer) and secondary ride (which I wanted softer). Overall it's a good move Tramlining has increased, but noise is slightly down. I went from 2.2/2.3 cold to 2.5/2.6 cold; note that the full load setting of 2.6/3.1 increases the back way more to account for luggage and rear passengers, which I don't have, so I stuck to the same ratio as the recommended minimum pressures. Thanks for the tip.

Funny, I found tramlining reduce but so did grip (which I enjoy haha).

[RobM77]

bmwmike said:

RobM77 said:

So the higher pressures stiffened both primary ride (which I wanted stiffer) and secondary ride (which I wanted softer). Overall it's a good move Tramlining has increased, but noise is slightly down. I went from 2.2/2.3 cold to 2.5/2.6 cold; note that the full load setting of 2.6/3.1 increases the back way more to account for luggage and rear passengers, which I don't have, so I stuck to the same ratio as the recommended minimum pressures. Thanks for the tip.

Funny, I found tramlining reduce but so did grip (which I enjoy haha).

I absolutely love the car and it's a monumental engineering achievement by BMW, but I get the feeling it'd be even better if they specifically developed M Sport for 17" wheels and forced everyone to have them. Vanity and engineering shouldn't mix! I felt the same about my Z4 Coupé, which had low profile 19s.

[xjay1337]

RobM77 said:

bmwmike said:

RobM77 said:

So the higher pressures stiffened both primary ride (which I wanted stiffer) and secondary ride (which I wanted softer). Overall it's a good move Tramlining has increased, but noise is slightly down. I went from 2.2/2.3 cold to 2.5/2.6 cold; note that the full load setting of 2.6/3.1 increases the back way more to account for luggage and rear passengers, which I don't have, so I stuck to the same ratio as the recommended minimum pressures. Thanks for the tip.

Funny, I found tramlining reduce but so did grip (which I enjoy haha).

I absolutely love the car and it's a monumental engineering achievement by BMW, but I get the feeling it'd be even better if they specifically developed M Sport for 17" wheels and forced everyone to have them. Vanity and engineering shouldn't mix! I felt the same about my Z4 Coupé, which had low profile 19s.

Interestingly in a test on the same car with the same tyres in 17, 18 and 19 the tester (Tyre Reviews, bloke is on here as "jon-" i think) rated the 18" as best.

17 inch is often too squishy but you have wide tyre choice, on lighter cars such as Civic Type R's then 17's is prefered but on heavier track cars (say Mk5 Golf etc) then 18's are used.
Brake clearance also matters on a heavier/faster car you need bigger brakes

I personally like 18, the difference in ride quality is so minor but you get better sidewall stiffness.

[Wills2]

RobM77 said:

I absolutely love the car and it's a monumental engineering achievement by BMW, but I get the feeling it'd be even better if they specifically developed M Sport for 17" wheels and forced everyone to have them. Vanity and engineering shouldn't mix! I felt the same about my Z4 Coupé, which had low profile 19s.

No Z4 coupe came from the factory on 19" wheels

[cerb4.5lee]

Wills2 said:

RobM77 said:

I absolutely love the car and it's a monumental engineering achievement by BMW, but I get the feeling it'd be even better if they specifically developed M Sport for 17" wheels and forced everyone to have them. Vanity and engineering shouldn't mix! I felt the same about my Z4 Coupé, which had low profile 19s.

No Z4 coupe came from the factory on 19" wheels

My Z4M only had 18" wheels(which I thought were small because I'm a sucker for big wheels!) as standard as well.

[Poppiecock]

RobM77 said:

It's my experience that SE and M Sport have both softened over the years. For my first E90, a 2007 320d SE, the SE suspension was to my tastes: good control over the bumps, easily balanced in corners, and composed at high lat g without hitting the bump stops. For my second E90, a 2010 320 ED, the suspension was woeful; it made my wife sick and I hated the handling. I’ve driven a number of different BMWs from that era and they echoed this shift too. To conclude, M Sport is now what SE was.

If I can be critical about my 2014 F10 M Sport, I’d say that the secondary ride (small bumps and ruts) is a bit too firm, and the primary ride (large undulations and body roll) is too soft. However, I think that for the secondary ride, this is just a feature of low profile run flat 19” tyres; and the primary ride is a feature of the car’s mass.

ED models used to run on their own specific suspension and tyre combination - I think they had the MSport ride height but 16" wheels and balloon tyres.

F10 SE spec. runs on 17" wheels with non RFT balloons, whilst the Luxury gets 18" RFTs. SE can feel a bit soft and wallowy - but with the bigger wheels and lower profile RFTs, it stiffens things a fair bit, without getting the hardness you get with an MSport. By far my favourite combination for a daily driver.
(And I found the Lux. seats more comfortable than the MSport seats).

F10s and F11s are very sensitive to tyres - one set of fronts made it almost un-driveable in lane 1 of motorways due to the tram lining. This calmed over time as the tyres wore. But nobody ever seems to be able to fix the inside edge wear. You have to keep a close eye on tread depth - a colleague was almost down to the canvas when I pointed this out to him.

[RobM77]

cerb4.5lee said:

Wills2 said:

RobM77 said:

I absolutely love the car and it's a monumental engineering achievement by BMW, but I get the feeling it'd be even better if they specifically developed M Sport for 17" wheels and forced everyone to have them. Vanity and engineering shouldn't mix! I felt the same about my Z4 Coupé, which had low profile 19s.

No Z4 coupe came from the factory on 19" wheels

My Z4M only had 18" wheels(which I thought were small because I'm a sucker for big wheels!) as standard as well.

Sorry, my mistake, they were 18s.

Edited by RobM77 on Friday 23 August 11:19

[PixelpeepS3]

xjay1337 said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

i guess it all depends on what your daily life consists of.

'average' car ownership of members on here i assume is as follows:

- Petrol head owner
- enjoys the odd spirited blast down a slip road, when someone tries to take the piss, off a roundabout and having more power than average available for
when the circumstances allow.
- understands that owning a higher performance car will mean higher fuel bills, but it's nice to have your cake and eat it sometimes.
- doesn't have a bottomless bank balance for maintenance / fuel / road tax
- can't afford/justify to run/own more than one car so its going to be an all rounder, one that ticks 'most' of the boxes
- higher than average driving skills but not a driving god
- has a job mon-fri which involves driving to and from, averaging 8-25mph on that commute
- prefers a predictable drive whilst not driving for pleasure
- eats the odd sandwich or sips a coffee/tea whilst driving (loud gasp from the safety stacey (lacey?) brigade)
- gets to spend maybe 3% of their total time in the car driving purely for pleasure

to me, i'd rather a car that's right for 97% of the time i use it - case in point, my EP3 civic type-r - great car, hated it for 97% of the time!

DSG S3/Golf R was ideal for my 97% - loved them both. Attempted to try something different, bought a 16 plate manual civic diesel (120bhp) to try and keep commuting costs down. i hate my automotive life right now.

What?

You mean not everyone on Pistonheads earns £225k per annum, has a 75 car garage, Heel and Toes ALL the time in their manual when driving in the mountains for pleasure, and takes a private plane to work twice a week to update the share holders?

lol, £225k is the entry level annual wage if you were to believe some on here

[RobM77]

PixelpeepS3 said:

xjay1337 said:

PixelpeepS3 said:

i guess it all depends on what your daily life consists of.

'average' car ownership of members on here i assume is as follows:

- Petrol head owner
- enjoys the odd spirited blast down a slip road, when someone tries to take the piss, off a roundabout and having more power than average available for
when the circumstances allow.
- understands that owning a higher performance car will mean higher fuel bills, but it's nice to have your cake and eat it sometimes.
- doesn't have a bottomless bank balance for maintenance / fuel / road tax
- can't afford/justify to run/own more than one car so its going to be an all rounder, one that ticks 'most' of the boxes
- higher than average driving skills but not a driving god
- has a job mon-fri which involves driving to and from, averaging 8-25mph on that commute
- prefers a predictable drive whilst not driving for pleasure
- eats the odd sandwich or sips a coffee/tea whilst driving (loud gasp from the safety stacey (lacey?) brigade)
- gets to spend maybe 3% of their total time in the car driving purely for pleasure

to me, i'd rather a car that's right for 97% of the time i use it - case in point, my EP3 civic type-r - great car, hated it for 97% of the time!

DSG S3/Golf R was ideal for my 97% - loved them both. Attempted to try something different, bought a 16 plate manual civic diesel (120bhp) to try and keep commuting costs down. i hate my automotive life right now.

What?

You mean not everyone on Pistonheads earns £225k per annum, has a 75 car garage, Heel and Toes ALL the time in their manual when driving in the mountains for pleasure, and takes a private plane to work twice a week to update the share holders?

lol, £225k is the entry level annual wage if you were to believe some on here

On another note, I've never understood the PH attitude to heel and toe - I do it in all manual cars in all types of driving. For some weird reason people think that's funny. For me, a gear change that's not rev-matched sounds and feels just hideous.