E91 Straight Six Bearding
Discussion
Manmoths said:
Out of the two, go 335d. MUCH more reliable engines, better on juice and just as quick in the real world. I love mine.
Not that simple though is it? They both offer a very different driving experience.
I had the 335d and it wasn't what I was looking for at the time, I had swapped my 535d and M3 CSL for an S4 avant as I wanted one car. Hated it, like really, really hated it. So swapped the S4 for a 335d and did like it, but it is definitely more of a super fast mile muncher. So took BMW up on their 30 day exchange policy and swapped for a 335i.
There is quite a bit of difference between them in the way they drive and the way you drive them.
Having said all that, I was then lent an N53 330i when my car was in for warranty work and I actually realised that I preferred that to my 335i. Just something about a NA engine that is more rewarding than forced induction.
So I swapped the 335i for another E46 M3 and an A6 3.2fsi Avant, which was a pretty perfect combo to be fair.
I would happily any of them, so please don't think I am knocking them, and the 335d E91 is a cracker, but they all have very different characters from each other.
gizlaroc said:
Manmoths said:
Out of the two, go 335d. MUCH more reliable engines, better on juice and just as quick in the real world. I love mine.
Not that simple though is it? They both offer a very different driving experience.
I had the 335d and it wasn't what I was looking for at the time, I had swapped my 535d and M3 CSL for an S4 avant as I wanted one car. Hated it, like really, really hated it. So swapped the S4 for a 335d and did like it, but it is definitely more of a super fast mile muncher. So took BMW up on their 30 day exchange policy and swapped for a 335i.
There is quite a bit of difference between them in the way they drive and the way you drive them.
Having said all that, I was then lent an N53 330i when my car was in for warranty work and I actually realised that I preferred that to my 335i. Just something about a NA engine that is more rewarding than forced induction.
So I swapped the 335i for another E46 M3 and an A6 3.2fsi Avant, which was a pretty perfect combo to be fair.
I would happily any of them, so please don't think I am knocking them, and the 335d E91 is a cracker, but they all have very different characters from each other.
So for me personally the 335i would be the ideal engine. Low end thrust and it also revs out well enough too, and that was a big reason why I loved the M4's engine when I drove one. The engine offers the best of both a diesel and a NA engine in some ways for me.
cerb4.5lee said:
Agree and as much as I like the 335d's engine(love the low end torque/thrust) a diesel engine does have a limited depth for me. I like a nice NA engine as well but it is mostly about the top end of the revs with them and not much down below.
So for me personally the 335i would be the ideal engine. Low end thrust and it also revs out well enough too, and that was a big reason why I loved the M4's engine when I drove one. The engine offers the best of both a diesel and a NA engine in some ways for me.
I agree, if you only have one car then the 335/40i etc. is spot on, it offers a bit of everything. So for me personally the 335i would be the ideal engine. Low end thrust and it also revs out well enough too, and that was a big reason why I loved the M4's engine when I drove one. The engine offers the best of both a diesel and a NA engine in some ways for me.
Plus it is incredibly economical when you are not thrashing it around, amazingly so.
They are all good, just depends what it is the person buying it likes from the way a car delivers its power.
The 335d is effortless, the 330i has to be worked but revs nicely is super refined and sounds nice, the 335i has the effortless nature of the 335d but also sounds good and revs more.
However, buy one that is now 10 years old, or maybe more, the 335d is probably a far more sensible choice financially, not on fuel or anything but on upkeep.
I would not write off the 330i either, I love them, but that is me and people think I'm weird.
Edited by gizlaroc on Tuesday 28th January 19:47
MikeM6 said:
Agree that the N54/N55/B58 engines are awesome and would be my first choice over any diesel, unless doing over 20k miles per year.
Unless doing moon milage I don't think the difference is massive MPG wise. My 335d used to do 44mpg on the OBC and around 40mpg calculated on a run.
The 335i used to do around 37mpg doing the same.
When doing the school etc., ie lots of sub 10 mile trips the 335d would show 34mpg and reality was 31 calculated, the 335i was 27mpg doing that work.
I think the problem is, many doing 25k miles a year buy a diesel, and report 40mpg average from them, then we compare to those who have the petrol and only do 10k miles a year and loads of short journeys who get 27mpg, it skews the figures.
I remember when I was using the M3 for work, in 9 weeks I did around 5000 miles in it, and over that period it returned 36mpg average.
Once it was back as a 'fun' car for weekends and hooning around in it was soon back down to 21mpg.
We don't often compare apples with apples.
My 520d Touring has been doing 37mpg while the weather has been colder and they are using winter diesel.
The E91 330i has returned 33mpg over the last few weeks doing the London run and racking up the miles.
Not saving any money at the pump as always use 98 ron in it, but doing 20k a year that is what?
£6 a week difference?
Now, a 320d Efficient Dynamics would be the one to get, 55mpg average, that is a proper saving. But I don't think most people save much going for a 335d or similar.
I reckon most get around 500-600 miles from a tank on average, which is 35-42mpg.
gizlaroc said:
Not that simple though is it?
They both offer a very different driving experience.
I had the 335d and it wasn't what I was looking for at the time, I had swapped my 535d and M3 CSL for an S4 avant as I wanted one car. Hated it, like really, really hated it. So swapped the S4 for a 335d and did like it, but it is definitely more of a super fast mile muncher. So took BMW up on their 30 day exchange policy and swapped for a 335i.
There is quite a bit of difference between them in the way they drive and the way you drive them.
Having said all that, I was then lent an N53 330i when my car was in for warranty work and I actually realised that I preferred that to my 335i. Just something about a NA engine that is more rewarding than forced induction.
So I swapped the 335i for another E46 M3 and an A6 3.2fsi Avant, which was a pretty perfect combo to be fair.
I would happily any of them, so please don't think I am knocking them, and the 335d E91 is a cracker, but they all have very different characters from each other.
Can't help but agree with you here. I have an n53 f10 and its a brilliant all rounder, and I much preferred the character of the n53 to the n55 535i. Horses for courses and all that.They both offer a very different driving experience.
I had the 335d and it wasn't what I was looking for at the time, I had swapped my 535d and M3 CSL for an S4 avant as I wanted one car. Hated it, like really, really hated it. So swapped the S4 for a 335d and did like it, but it is definitely more of a super fast mile muncher. So took BMW up on their 30 day exchange policy and swapped for a 335i.
There is quite a bit of difference between them in the way they drive and the way you drive them.
Having said all that, I was then lent an N53 330i when my car was in for warranty work and I actually realised that I preferred that to my 335i. Just something about a NA engine that is more rewarding than forced induction.
So I swapped the 335i for another E46 M3 and an A6 3.2fsi Avant, which was a pretty perfect combo to be fair.
I would happily any of them, so please don't think I am knocking them, and the 335d E91 is a cracker, but they all have very different characters from each other.
gizlaroc said:
I remember when I was using the M3 for work, in 9 weeks I did around 5000 miles in it, and over that period it returned 36mpg average.
Once it was back as a 'fun' car for weekends and hooning around in it was soon back down to 21mpg.
We don't often compare apples with apples.
I've always got 30+ mpg with my E46 325ti, two Z4 Si Coupes, an E91 325i and an E90 - but I can't see me getting much above 25 mpg with my Z4 MC! Once it was back as a 'fun' car for weekends and hooning around in it was soon back down to 21mpg.
We don't often compare apples with apples.
But who cares, it's not an apple - more of a passion fruit!
cerb4.5lee said:
gizlaroc said:
I would not write off the 330i either, I love them, but that is me and people think I'm weird.
You are not weird for me. 
It is a lovely engine and I've only had one engine that I thought that was more smooth than the N52. It is a special feeling engine for sure.
gizlaroc said:
Unless doing moon milage I don't think the difference is massive MPG wise.
Now, a 320d Efficient Dynamics would be the one to get, 55mpg average, that is a proper saving. But I don't think most people save much going for a 335d or similar.
I reckon most get around 500-600 miles from a tank on average, which is 35-42mpg.
That was my point really, if doing 20k+ miles I would have the cheapest to run and most reliable car for the commute, with something more fun for the weekends.Now, a 320d Efficient Dynamics would be the one to get, 55mpg average, that is a proper saving. But I don't think most people save much going for a 335d or similar.
I reckon most get around 500-600 miles from a tank on average, which is 35-42mpg.
I meant I would not consider ANY diesel unless doing big miles.
g3org3y said:
cerb4.5lee said:
gizlaroc said:
I would not write off the 330i either, I love them, but that is me and people think I'm weird.
You are not weird for me. It is a lovely engine and I've only had one engine that I thought that was more smooth than the N52. It is a special feeling engine for sure.
gizlaroc said:
The idea of a running a 335i/d seems a little scary now! Especially if it's one that has been neglected.I've passed this link onto my brother. Will hopefully help him making a decision
Agree on the 330i engines capabilities. I've found it may lack a little compared to some of the torquey diesels but it really comes alive further up the rev range. Where some of the diesels run out of puff, this keeps pulling strongly towards the redline! And that is against some other similar powered petrol cars too.
I guess it's all down to personal preference though. I haven't driven many BMWs but so far, I've really enjoyed this motor. Though I wouldn't mind experiencing the 335d.
Mine is an auto, main reason for going auto was down to really getting used to them over the last few years. I was tempted to go back to manual for the 330i but after reading that the clutch can be a little difficult to live with due to the clutch delay valve, I opted for auto. So I was just wondering, is the clutch setup similar on 335i/d too?
Can't speak to the 335i as I haven't driven a manual, but the 335d was Auto only so the clutch is less of a concern on those. I've spent a bit of time driving one as a loan car when my E82 was in having work done, and they are very impressive machines - the grunt is relentless and they make a great noise for a diesel - and of course if you remap one it becomes the fastest thing ever ()
I found it to be more of a GT than my 1-Series though - very relaxing, very comfortable and when the road opens up point, squirt and hang on. I prefer my 1 Series (which is 90% of an E9x underneath) as it changes direction quicker, and the manual box means you have to drive it more - but the 335d is still a cracking car. I'd be another to go 330i as I prefer the N/A engine and it seems to have less potential b0rk than the 335i however.
)I found it to be more of a GT than my 1-Series though - very relaxing, very comfortable and when the road opens up point, squirt and hang on. I prefer my 1 Series (which is 90% of an E9x underneath) as it changes direction quicker, and the manual box means you have to drive it more - but the 335d is still a cracking car. I'd be another to go 330i as I prefer the N/A engine and it seems to have less potential b0rk than the 335i however.
Sufyaan said:
The idea of a running a 335i/d seems a little scary now! Especially if it's one that has been neglected.
Realistically speaking, running a 335i is perfectly fine if you are handy with the spanners and have proper diagnostic/coding abilities. If you have neither of those, dont go anywhere near one
For reference, i've had the following e90's:
e92 320i N43 manual, 10k miles - absolute s
t, unreliable st box, company car. Did i mention it was st?e90 M3, S65, 61k miles, manual - 21mpg, 8k+ rpm. daft engine in a normal(ish) looking 3 series. I had one before everyone worried about bearings & actuators, but having had a couple of e46 M3's before it, any unusual noise still instilled the fear of immediate wallet emptying.
e91 330d N57 auto, 90k miles - 42mpg, xhp transmission flash woke up the gearbox, great daily
e90 330i N52 manual, 130k miles - lovely engine, bomb proof, cost bugger all to run, barring fuel
e91 325i N53 manual, 110k miles - noisy engine on idle, plenty of fuel/spark related things to break, pretty slow, very good mpg however.
e91 LCI 335d M57 auto, 234k miles - EGR/DPF delete and 375bhp/580lb ft of torque courtesy of BWChiptune. The thing was a monster once locked into 3rd, no major mechanicals changed in a quite ridiclous number of miles, felt like it would do another 200k easily. Very quickly, at 42mpg. No idea why i sold it.
e90 335i N54 manual, 116k miles - MHD Stage 1 map, circa 360bhp, goes very well. Replaced the coil packs/sparkplugs, gave it a service and thats it. Its had some electrical issues, but thats what happens when you start messing about with rewiring CIC retrofits and forget to disconnect the battery
Theh have the same issues with fuel/spark related gremlins as per the N53's, but also have the added fun of a pair of impossible to get at turbos. Realistically speaking, these things will go on rattling their wastegates off for years before failing, but when they do, its £1200 or so to sort now.e91 LCI 335i N54 auto, 14k miles - totally standard, havent really driven it yet, so cant comment on reliability.
For me, each engine/car has their pluses/minuses, but for me, if you want cheap/bombproof & fun, buy a 330i, if you want daft oomf, but decent mpg, buy a 335d, then if you want the potential to have a massive power sleeper, but are happy for it to break down on occasion, buy a 335i.
Sir_Dave said:
Realistically speaking, running a 335i is perfectly fine if you are handy with the spanners and have proper diagnostic/coding abilities.
If you have neither of those, dont go anywhere near one
For reference, i've had the following e90's:
e92 320i N43 manual, 10k miles - absolute st, unreliable st box, company car. Did i mention it was st?
e90 M3, S65, 61k miles, manual - 21mpg, 8k+ rpm. daft engine in a normal(ish) looking 3 series. I had one before everyone worried about bearings & actuators, but having had a couple of e46 M3's before it, any unusual noise still instilled the fear of immediate wallet emptying.
e91 330d N57 auto, 90k miles - 42mpg, xhp transmission flash woke up the gearbox, great daily
e90 330i N52 manual, 130k miles - lovely engine, bomb proof, cost bugger all to run, barring fuel
e91 325i N53 manual, 110k miles - noisy engine on idle, plenty of fuel/spark related things to break, pretty slow, very good mpg however.
e91 LCI 335d M57 auto, 234k miles - EGR/DPF delete and 375bhp/580lb ft of torque courtesy of BWChiptune. The thing was a monster once locked into 3rd, no major mechanicals changed in a quite ridiclous number of miles, felt like it would do another 200k easily. Very quickly, at 42mpg. No idea why i sold it.
e90 335i N54 manual, 116k miles - MHD Stage 1 map, circa 360bhp, goes very well. Replaced the coil packs/sparkplugs, gave it a service and thats it. Its had some electrical issues, but thats what happens when you start messing about with rewiring CIC retrofits and forget to disconnect the battery Theh have the same issues with fuel/spark related gremlins as per the N53's, but also have the added fun of a pair of impossible to get at turbos. Realistically speaking, these things will go on rattling their wastegates off for years before failing, but when they do, its £1200 or so to sort now.
e91 LCI 335i N54 auto, 14k miles - totally standard, havent really driven it yet, so cant comment on reliability.
For me, each engine/car has their pluses/minuses, but for me, if you want cheap/bombproof & fun, buy a 330i, if you want daft oomf, but decent mpg, buy a 335d, then if you want the potential to have a massive power sleeper, but are happy for it to break down on occasion, buy a 335i.
That’s a great E90/1 etc summary. I’m an M57 fan.If you have neither of those, dont go anywhere near one
For reference, i've had the following e90's:
e92 320i N43 manual, 10k miles - absolute s
t, unreliable st box, company car. Did i mention it was st?e90 M3, S65, 61k miles, manual - 21mpg, 8k+ rpm. daft engine in a normal(ish) looking 3 series. I had one before everyone worried about bearings & actuators, but having had a couple of e46 M3's before it, any unusual noise still instilled the fear of immediate wallet emptying.
e91 330d N57 auto, 90k miles - 42mpg, xhp transmission flash woke up the gearbox, great daily
e90 330i N52 manual, 130k miles - lovely engine, bomb proof, cost bugger all to run, barring fuel
e91 325i N53 manual, 110k miles - noisy engine on idle, plenty of fuel/spark related things to break, pretty slow, very good mpg however.
e91 LCI 335d M57 auto, 234k miles - EGR/DPF delete and 375bhp/580lb ft of torque courtesy of BWChiptune. The thing was a monster once locked into 3rd, no major mechanicals changed in a quite ridiclous number of miles, felt like it would do another 200k easily. Very quickly, at 42mpg. No idea why i sold it.
e90 335i N54 manual, 116k miles - MHD Stage 1 map, circa 360bhp, goes very well. Replaced the coil packs/sparkplugs, gave it a service and thats it. Its had some electrical issues, but thats what happens when you start messing about with rewiring CIC retrofits and forget to disconnect the battery
Theh have the same issues with fuel/spark related gremlins as per the N53's, but also have the added fun of a pair of impossible to get at turbos. Realistically speaking, these things will go on rattling their wastegates off for years before failing, but when they do, its £1200 or so to sort now.e91 LCI 335i N54 auto, 14k miles - totally standard, havent really driven it yet, so cant comment on reliability.
For me, each engine/car has their pluses/minuses, but for me, if you want cheap/bombproof & fun, buy a 330i, if you want daft oomf, but decent mpg, buy a 335d, then if you want the potential to have a massive power sleeper, but are happy for it to break down on occasion, buy a 335i.
Sir_Dave said:
Sufyaan said:
The idea of a running a 335i/d seems a little scary now! Especially if it's one that has been neglected.
Realistically speaking, running a 335i is perfectly fine if you are handy with the spanners and have proper diagnostic/coding abilities. If you have neither of those, dont go anywhere near one
For reference, i've had the following e90's:
e92 320i N43 manual, 10k miles - absolute s
t, unreliable st box, company car. Did i mention it was st?e90 M3, S65, 61k miles, manual - 21mpg, 8k+ rpm. daft engine in a normal(ish) looking 3 series. I had one before everyone worried about bearings & actuators, but having had a couple of e46 M3's before it, any unusual noise still instilled the fear of immediate wallet emptying.
e91 330d N57 auto, 90k miles - 42mpg, xhp transmission flash woke up the gearbox, great daily
e90 330i N52 manual, 130k miles - lovely engine, bomb proof, cost bugger all to run, barring fuel
e91 325i N53 manual, 110k miles - noisy engine on idle, plenty of fuel/spark related things to break, pretty slow, very good mpg however.
e91 LCI 335d M57 auto, 234k miles - EGR/DPF delete and 375bhp/580lb ft of torque courtesy of BWChiptune. The thing was a monster once locked into 3rd, no major mechanicals changed in a quite ridiclous number of miles, felt like it would do another 200k easily. Very quickly, at 42mpg. No idea why i sold it.
e90 335i N54 manual, 116k miles - MHD Stage 1 map, circa 360bhp, goes very well. Replaced the coil packs/sparkplugs, gave it a service and thats it. Its had some electrical issues, but thats what happens when you start messing about with rewiring CIC retrofits and forget to disconnect the battery
Theh have the same issues with fuel/spark related gremlins as per the N53's, but also have the added fun of a pair of impossible to get at turbos. Realistically speaking, these things will go on rattling their wastegates off for years before failing, but when they do, its £1200 or so to sort now.e91 LCI 335i N54 auto, 14k miles - totally standard, havent really driven it yet, so cant comment on reliability.
For me, each engine/car has their pluses/minuses, but for me, if you want cheap/bombproof & fun, buy a 330i, if you want daft oomf, but decent mpg, buy a 335d, then if you want the potential to have a massive power sleeper, but are happy for it to break down on occasion, buy a 335i.
phil_cardiff said:
That's a good summary thanks. I had an E91 with the 2.5 N52 engine. Slower than the 330i of course but similarly reliable and a fair way cheaper to buy initially. More manuals available too.
It's a brilliant summary! I've had 2 Z4 Coupes with the 3 litre N52 engine, and in 2018 I bought an E91 325i N52 as a daily because it was easier to find a manual within my budget.
But in 2019 I replaced it with an E90 330i N52 manual, mainly because E91s were so much dearer and anyway it had the split/fold rear seat option.
Mr Tidy said:
phil_cardiff said:
That's a good summary thanks. I had an E91 with the 2.5 N52 engine. Slower than the 330i of course but similarly reliable and a fair way cheaper to buy initially. More manuals available too.
It's a brilliant summary! I've had 2 Z4 Coupes with the 3 litre N52 engine, and in 2018 I bought an E91 325i N52 as a daily because it was easier to find a manual within my budget.
But in 2019 I replaced it with an E90 330i N52 manual, mainly because E91s were so much dearer and anyway it had the split/fold rear seat option.
phil_cardiff said:
Mr Tidy said:
phil_cardiff said:
That's a good summary thanks. I had an E91 with the 2.5 N52 engine. Slower than the 330i of course but similarly reliable and a fair way cheaper to buy initially. More manuals available too.
It's a brilliant summary! I've had 2 Z4 Coupes with the 3 litre N52 engine, and in 2018 I bought an E91 325i N52 as a daily because it was easier to find a manual within my budget.
But in 2019 I replaced it with an E90 330i N52 manual, mainly because E91s were so much dearer and anyway it had the split/fold rear seat option.
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