Has anyone ever grown to like an auto?

[JakeT]

REALIST123 said:

I can’t help thinking that those advocating manuals are just being contrary for the sake of it.

Not me. I do just prefer a manual car. I rarely drive in town, and I prefer the driver involvement. I can understand why people like an auto though, both on and off track. I just prefer it. It's like food, music, or anything else in life. It's great to have the choice between different options.

[Bodo]

For a car that I buy to enjoy driving, I would never go for an auto. I would also never pay a premium for an auto.

In 2017 I have leased a 118i with the ZF HP8 auto. The car is for commuting only, and was meant to be cheap. I had three different cars to choose from in BMW's flog-all-cars-from-stockpile-before-year-end, and I have chosen the cheapest having three cylinders, sports seats and the auto box.

I must say, I'm quite impressed with that gearbox - in a passive driving kind of way. Reaction is a bit slow, but then again, those three cylinders are not encouraging to do anything fast with that car. To put it in one word: inoffensive. If I replaced that car, I would go for that auto box again; though that's not likely to happen since BMW 1er will be front-scratchers by then.

[Pica-Pica]

Billy_Whizzzz said:

Can’t think i’ve ever - in nearly 40 years of driving manuals I’ve ever thought:

I wish that change had been a bit quicker

or (in traffic) - this is hard work

or - I wish this was a little less involving.

Have to confess that every time I have driven an auto I’ve thought:

- the delay from reverse to 1st is insanely annoying

- the binary nature of either in or out isn’t subtle enough

- It’s often in the wrong gear

- it holds on to gears too long

Etc

?
Never had any of that in my auto at all. Nil. Zilch. Nothing.
Had plenty of that in manuals.

[CustardOnChips]

The Zf8 in my 535 is brilliant. Changes are so quick and smooth they are barely noticeable.

No hesitation when planting the go pedal and perfectly well behaved at slower speeds.

I have herd people complain about the above being problematic but it tends to be in the lower powered cars like the 520. I suspect the power and torque of the 35d lump suit the box.

[ITP]

The way I see it is this, if I had unlimited funds to buy loads of cars I have realised most of the ones I would buy just for the driving experience would be manual. McLaren F1, Ferrari F40, AC Cobra, Singer 911, Eagle e-type, alfaholics GTA, caterham etc.
I would have some autos though too, maybe a Bentley and a Range Rover.

I am strangely uninterested in modern super cars/hyper cars, it’s amazing what they are capable of numbers wise, but I just think they would be less fun to drive somehow, as it’s all done for you with massive tyres, electronics and auto boxes. Wouldn’t mind testing out my theory though one day!

[E-bmw]

Poppiecock said:

You’re both wrong.

I’m intrigued by the delay going into reverse in particular as even the old school 4 speeder in my wife’s Jap. Import doesn’t have that.

It sometimes gets caught out in a way my old ZF8 doesn’t, even the ZF5 behaves itself when you learn how to drive it.

Which is often the issue. If you go in with the attitude that it’ll be rubbish, you’ll never learn how to drive it properly.

I’d like to see your reactions if plonked in a car with a CVT or Toyota hybrid box. Your heads would explode.

Actually we are both correct, and your assumption (more of that below) is completely incorrect.

My experiences are first hand in the auto cars that I have driven...… I don't remember seeing you there at the time so you can't say what my experiences are & whether they are incorrect.

You also don't even know which gearbox with which firmware or even which car so once again you can't possibly pass judgement on my experiences.

On top of that I actually went into each different one wanting to like them as I have heard it said by so many of how far modern automatics have come & how well they adapt, and I was thinking of buying an auto if I liked the experience, so once again you are completely wrong.

[xjay1337]

I lived with a CVT Toyota hybrid for a week while in Greece
It wasn't too bad actually. Incredibly smooth. (having owned a dsg and since a zf8)

If you change your driving style a little bit to accomodate for the weird way it accelerates it's not obtrusively noisy either and over an entire week and approx 700km of driving I averaged (according to the trip computer) 3.9L/100km

[RichardJS]

Another way that a manual is better is that you don't have to go through every gear sequentially when changing up or down (and on a ZF8 like on my BMW that can be a lot of gears). For example, in my Lotus I'll often overtake in 3rd gear and then once past and cruising again will change straight into 6th (rev matching of course).

But I can understand why a lot of people prefer automatics - it just depends on circumstances and what's important to someone. I was driving around Kent and London last week and I don't think I once went into manual mode! There's no right or wrong.

[E-bmw]

Good answer, I find every one I have driven loathful, but never have I tried to tell anyone their contrary opinion is wrong, it is their opinion & their experience of how they drive their car over the roads they drive in the way that they drive, not mine.

[E-bmw]

Pica-Pica said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

Can’t think i’ve ever - in nearly 40 years of driving manuals I’ve ever thought:

I wish that change had been a bit quicker

or (in traffic) - this is hard work

or - I wish this was a little less involving.

Have to confess that every time I have driven an auto I’ve thought:

- the delay from reverse to 1st is insanely annoying

- the binary nature of either in or out isn’t subtle enough

- It’s often in the wrong gear

- it holds on to gears too long

Etc

?
Never had any of that in my auto at all. Nil. Zilch. Nothing.
Had plenty of that in manuals.

What you drive a manual in the wrong gear, take too long to go into reverse, stay in gear too long, why would you?

[crowfield]

I have an automatic Mercedes and a manual TVR Chimaera. The Mercedes is perfect for day to day running around and long motorway journeys being quick enough to keep up with the flow of traffic ( it's a petrol saloon ) and giving good economy ( 40MPG is easily obtainable ) The TVR is great for those (few) sunny days, but would be totally spoilt by any form of auto box. For me, this is the ideal combination

[Pica-Pica]

E-bmw said:

Pica-Pica said:

Billy_Whizzzz said:

Can’t think i’ve ever - in nearly 40 years of driving manuals I’ve ever thought:

I wish that change had been a bit quicker

or (in traffic) - this is hard work

or - I wish this was a little less involving.

Have to confess that every time I have driven an auto I’ve thought:

- the delay from reverse to 1st is insanely annoying

- the binary nature of either in or out isn’t subtle enough

- It’s often in the wrong gear

- it holds on to gears too long

Etc

?
Never had any of that in my auto at all. Nil. Zilch. Nothing.
Had plenty of that in manuals.

What you drive a manual in the wrong gear, take too long to go into reverse, stay in gear too long, why would you?

No. Just saying (or meant to say), my auto is quicker than any manual I have ever driven or seen driven, in changing gears, and getting from R to D (R to 1st). To go from R to D in my auto is just a straight (longitudinal) movement of the lever, and not both a longitudinal, then lateral, then another longitudinal movement. My auto is always in the correct gear, and will change down when braking into a roundabout. When overtaking it will select the correct gear quicker than could be done in a manual and no need to pre-change down.

[E-bmw]

Pica-Pica said:

When overtaking it will select the correct gear quicker than could be done in a manual and no need to pre-change down.

Well. it can't possibly change prepare to overtake quicker because you have to accelerate before it will change & likely do it enough to engage kickdown, all of which you may need to do before you actually want to overtake because you have adapted your driving style to the automatic gearbox, unless of course you have it in manual.

It is not a need to pre-change down, it is the way you prepare to safely overtake, get in the right gear as the gap appears, then accelerate as quick as is appropriate to reduce TED.

Both work but in the auto it doesn't work anything like as smoothly or natural, especially if you mis-time it slightly, then have to back off, that 'box changes up & overshoots the speed, you have to brake & then start all over again.

Not for me, I know which gear I want, when I want it & have the ability to select it exactly when I want it.

[Poppiecock]

A modern auto senses how quickly you hit the throttle and behaves accordingly. It also won't drop straight back down if you lift off - it will hang onto the lower gear until it gets another input or 'times out' on its current behaviour.

You've spouted some complete nonsense about auto boxes - so inaccurate it does make me wonder if you have actually driven a modern auto or if this is some kind of story to boost some strange petrol head credentials.

[Welshbeef]

E-bmw said:

Well. it can't possibly change prepare to overtake quicker because you have to accelerate before it will change & likely do it enough to engage kickdown, all of which you may need to do before you actually want to overtake because you have adapted your driving style to the automatic gearbox, unless of course you have it in manual.

It is not a need to pre-change down, it is the way you prepare to safely overtake, get in the right gear as the gap appears, then accelerate as quick as is appropriate to reduce TED.

Both work but in the auto it doesn't work anything like as smoothly or natural, especially if you mis-time it slightly, then have to back off, that 'box changes up & overshoots the speed, you have to brake & then start all over again.

Not for me, I know which gear I want, when I want it & have the ability to select it exactly when I want it.

To be fair on the U.K. roads if your going for an overtake you’d be downshifting to maybe 3rd or 2nd - 2nd if your really squeezing past in a short distance 3rd a bit more and less manic.

It’s not oh I’ve a 9 speed gear box ho hum pondering so many to choose from no it’s a choice of 2 or in reality most overtaking is done in 3rd.

[E-bmw]

Poppiecock said:

A modern auto senses how quickly you hit the throttle and behaves accordingly. It also won't drop straight back down if you lift off - it will hang onto the lower gear until it gets another input or 'times out' on its current behaviour.

You've spouted some complete nonsense about auto boxes - so inaccurate it does make me wonder if you have actually driven a modern auto or if this is some kind of story to boost some strange petrol head credentials.

I am not saying/never have said they don't, in fact I think you will find I have said that is what they do, because I know they do.

I am saying they can't pre-empt what you want when you think of what you want, but you can do that in a manual and you leave it in the right gear for as long as you want to keep it there, there is no time delay & no overshooting & no having to learn to adapt.

Well, once again I hate to tell you this but my experiences are first hand in brand new (this MY cars) rentals and in 3 different ones, so, no, once again you are wrong.

In fact the latest one is still sat outside my house waiting being collected by Enterprise as I speak, it is a Dacia Duster diesel, and before you say, now I understand, it is actually the least loathsome of all of the autos I have driven this year, still doesn't do what you want when you want without changing your driving style & guess what? I don't want to change my driving style, especially on track.

You say I am spouting nonsense, I am not, as I have said before different people have different driving styles & drive different cars on different roads, I own a supercharged Mini Cooper S 6-speed manual with 220bhp as a track day car & for a bit of fun, there IS no auto that can engage like that in that car, not for me on the roads I drive on the end.

Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 21st July 15:55

[Welshbeef]

E-bmw said:

I am not saying/never have said they don't, in fact I think you will find I have said that is what they do, because I know they do.

I am saying they can't pre-empt what you want when you think of what you want, but you can do that in a manual and you leave it in the right gear for as long as you want to keep it there, there is no time delay & no overshooting & no having to learn to adapt.

Well, once again I hate to tell you this but my experiences are first hand in brand new (this MY cars) rentals and in 3 different ones, so, no, once again you are wrong.

In fact the latest one is still sat outside my house waiting being collected by Enterprise as I speak, it is a Dacia Duster diesel, and before you say, now I understand, it is actually the least loathsome of all of the autos I have driven this year, still doesn't do what you want when you want without changing your driving style & guess what? I don't want to change my driving style, especially on track.

Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 21st July 15:51

Now I understand.

I too have had a Dacia duster hire car but also own a ZF8. If in your opinion the Dacia D is the best MY current year auto you’ve driven I’d love to see the list of what cars you have driven to qualify your position.


But to me the Dacia is many many generations behind the ZF8 so odd you think the polar opposite.

[E-bmw]

I so knew you would say that I even said so in my post.

'Ang on a minute, I never mentioned a ZF8, you did.

Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 21st July 16:12

[E-bmw]

Oh, and before you (not you specifically wb) crank on again about me being on some kind of petrol head internet crusade let me remind you that the OP asked a question, I answered it in my experiences with respect to the cars that I have driven and the way that I drive on the roads that I drive & it is actually the mass of auto lovers on here that have been rounding on my right to have an opinion and different experiences to theirs stating that my experiences are not right, well whether they are right or not cannot be stated by anyone that wasn't in the car with me at the time.

[Wills2]

It doesn't help that BMWs manuals are poor in my experience, I wouldn't ever choose a manual BMW again, a Porsche yes as I loved the short shift equipped 911 I had but didn't like the manual e92 M3 so the next one was MDCT much better in that car.

I watched a Harry Metcalfe review of the Lotus Evora GT410 and that looked to have a lovely snappy little manual box so again you can understand wanting it that, but in a BMW no thanks.

I have a gen2 ZF8 in my 7er and that addresses most if not all the issues people mention about the Gen1 versions.