I have cellulite
Discussion
We picked up a new 3 series coupe for my wife a few weeks ago.
To cut a long story short, it has very bad "orange peel" paint across all surfaces of the car.
To be clear, it's not just the odd small patch, it's everywhere.
BMW have looked at the car and told us it's "acceptable".
Their angle seems to be that most, if not all, 3 series coupes coming off the production line at the moment would appear to have sh1te paintwork. So that makes it comparable with other cars, therefore it's okay.
Unsurprisingly my view is somewhat different. They have a production problem with their paint process and once they admit this to one owner, the floodgates open.
I am currently just about managing to keep calm (my wife is past this stage) but am fed up being fobbed off by both BMW (take it up with the dealer) and the dealer (take it up with BMW).
The constant changing of story by the delar is also somewhat irritating.
A couple of questions:-
1. Anyone else noticed this problem on their car?
(interestingly the bodyshop manager of the delarship has acknowledged the problem as it's very evident on his company 3 series)
2. Any advice, particularly from anyone in a BMW dealership?
Cheers.
To cut a long story short, it has very bad "orange peel" paint across all surfaces of the car.
To be clear, it's not just the odd small patch, it's everywhere.
BMW have looked at the car and told us it's "acceptable".
Their angle seems to be that most, if not all, 3 series coupes coming off the production line at the moment would appear to have sh1te paintwork. So that makes it comparable with other cars, therefore it's okay.
Unsurprisingly my view is somewhat different. They have a production problem with their paint process and once they admit this to one owner, the floodgates open.
I am currently just about managing to keep calm (my wife is past this stage) but am fed up being fobbed off by both BMW (take it up with the dealer) and the dealer (take it up with BMW).
The constant changing of story by the delar is also somewhat irritating.
A couple of questions:-
1. Anyone else noticed this problem on their car?
(interestingly the bodyshop manager of the delarship has acknowledged the problem as it's very evident on his company 3 series)
2. Any advice, particularly from anyone in a BMW dealership?
Cheers.
Reject it, if the problem is as apparent across the new 3 series as you imply then it will be used against you when it comes to selling time.
You have no doubt spent alot of money on it so it should be perfect.
Is the car on finance ? If so you can get them involved as technically they own the vehicle.
You have no doubt spent alot of money on it so it should be perfect.
Is the car on finance ? If so you can get them involved as technically they own the vehicle.
Edited by Egbert Nobacon on Tuesday 31st July 19:10
If you get the Finance Company involved it will cost you a small fortune in solicitors as each of the other parties won't discuss the issue without one.
My advice would be to send a letter off to Jim O'Donnell (BMW UK MD)by recorded delivery. Include photographs and a detailed summary of how the issue has been escallated, include comments made by the dealer concerned and a diary of who you have spoken with and when. Be as accurate as possible.
I'd actually copy the dealership with the content.
Try and remain civil, and wait for a response from Jim before deciding on any further action.
My advice would be to send a letter off to Jim O'Donnell (BMW UK MD)by recorded delivery. Include photographs and a detailed summary of how the issue has been escallated, include comments made by the dealer concerned and a diary of who you have spoken with and when. Be as accurate as possible.
I'd actually copy the dealership with the content.
Try and remain civil, and wait for a response from Jim before deciding on any further action.
Edited by Gimlet on Tuesday 31st July 20:02
Thanks for the replies so far.
Car is not on Finance so no complications there.
Gimlet - good plan, I will write to him tomorrow.
Already have a very comprehensive diary of who said what to who.
The whole process is both unfortunate and galling. Buying a car is always a complete pain, I don't know why I bother.
Out of interest, how is the paint on your Alpina Roadster ?
Car is not on Finance so no complications there.
Gimlet - good plan, I will write to him tomorrow.
Already have a very comprehensive diary of who said what to who.
The whole process is both unfortunate and galling. Buying a car is always a complete pain, I don't know why I bother.
Out of interest, how is the paint on your Alpina Roadster ?
Edited by whoami on Tuesday 31st July 21:04
I had no issues with the Roadster's paint.
BMW/Alpina did replace all 4 wheels under warranty when the car was 2 years old (22k miles) - just before the warranty ran out.
This was due to a very slight bubbling on the alloy finish around the tyre valve.
The dealer took photos, emailed them to Germany and I got the OK for new wheels within 1/2 hour.
My profile needs updating, as I bought a new E92 335d Coupe 6 weeks ago in Space Grey with Coral Red leather interior. It's fitted with the 19" wheels, Pro Sat Nav, Aluminium Trim, DAB Radio, full Ipod functionality through the iDrive and the extended lights package.
No problems with the paint finish on this either.
Very pleased with it to date.
BMW/Alpina did replace all 4 wheels under warranty when the car was 2 years old (22k miles) - just before the warranty ran out.
This was due to a very slight bubbling on the alloy finish around the tyre valve.
The dealer took photos, emailed them to Germany and I got the OK for new wheels within 1/2 hour.
My profile needs updating, as I bought a new E92 335d Coupe 6 weeks ago in Space Grey with Coral Red leather interior. It's fitted with the 19" wheels, Pro Sat Nav, Aluminium Trim, DAB Radio, full Ipod functionality through the iDrive and the extended lights package.
No problems with the paint finish on this either.
Very pleased with it to date.
I mentioned some time ago, how surprisingly bad the paint quality is on new cars and one of the paint guys said it was a known problem with the water based paints drying too quickly or somefink.
I presume your car is a dark colour ? They literally are "all like that", so it's not a problem with a known solution. Lighter colours are ok, but blacks/dark blues show orange peel from some distance.
Very disappointing if you've paid out (a lot of) your own money for the car.
I presume your car is a dark colour ? They literally are "all like that", so it's not a problem with a known solution. Lighter colours are ok, but blacks/dark blues show orange peel from some distance.
Very disappointing if you've paid out (a lot of) your own money for the car.
BOR said:
I mentioned some time ago, how surprisingly bad the paint quality is on new cars and one of the paint guys said it was a known problem with the water based paints drying too quickly or somefink.
I presume your car is a dark colour ? They literally are "all like that", so it's not a problem with a known solution. Lighter colours are ok, but blacks/dark blues show orange peel from some distance.
Very disappointing if you've paid out (a lot of) your own money for the car.
It's red and the finish is appalling.I presume your car is a dark colour ? They literally are "all like that", so it's not a problem with a known solution. Lighter colours are ok, but blacks/dark blues show orange peel from some distance.
Very disappointing if you've paid out (a lot of) your own money for the car.
Any BMW salesguys/employees care to comment??
BOR said:
I mentioned some time ago, how surprisingly bad the paint quality is on new cars and one of the paint guys said it was a known problem with the water based paints drying too quickly or somefink.
Yes it's true they're having a lot of trouble getting a good finish on the new water based paints. I've seen a new Corsa in the showroom with NO shine on the bootlid what so ever, in fact it was so bad I pointed it out to the salesman who said it was one of the better examples he's seen.whoami said:
We picked up a new 3 series coupe for my wife a few weeks ago.
To cut a long story short, it has very bad "orange peel" paint across all surfaces of the car.
To be clear, it's not just the odd small patch, it's everywhere.
BMW have looked at the car and told us it's "acceptable".
Their angle seems to be that most, if not all, 3 series coupes coming off the production line at the moment would appear to have sh1te paintwork. So that makes it comparable with other cars, therefore it's okay.
Unsurprisingly my view is somewhat different. They have a production problem with their paint process and once they admit this to one owner, the floodgates open.
I am currently just about managing to keep calm (my wife is past this stage) but am fed up being fobbed off by both BMW (take it up with the dealer) and the dealer (take it up with BMW).
The constant changing of story by the delar is also somewhat irritating.
A couple of questions:-
1. Anyone else noticed this problem on their car?
(interestingly the bodyshop manager of the delarship has acknowledged the problem as it's very evident on his company 3 series)
2. Any advice, particularly from anyone in a BMW dealership?
Cheers.
What plant was the car built at? As you know bmw are producing in cheaper countries these days, maybe the quality isn't the same?To cut a long story short, it has very bad "orange peel" paint across all surfaces of the car.
To be clear, it's not just the odd small patch, it's everywhere.
BMW have looked at the car and told us it's "acceptable".
Their angle seems to be that most, if not all, 3 series coupes coming off the production line at the moment would appear to have sh1te paintwork. So that makes it comparable with other cars, therefore it's okay.
Unsurprisingly my view is somewhat different. They have a production problem with their paint process and once they admit this to one owner, the floodgates open.
I am currently just about managing to keep calm (my wife is past this stage) but am fed up being fobbed off by both BMW (take it up with the dealer) and the dealer (take it up with BMW).
The constant changing of story by the delar is also somewhat irritating.
A couple of questions:-
1. Anyone else noticed this problem on their car?
(interestingly the bodyshop manager of the delarship has acknowledged the problem as it's very evident on his company 3 series)
2. Any advice, particularly from anyone in a BMW dealership?
Cheers.
mine is new 3 series in saphire black and paintwork is spot on. cant see how the paint should be drying to quickly as they will be painted in a temperature controlled enviroment and as far as I know they have been using water based paints for years now so should have the job right by now.
I would get the depth of the paint checked in case its been resprayed at the factory.( It does happen )
I would get the depth of the paint checked in case its been resprayed at the factory.( It does happen )
It won't be ANYTHING to do with the paint being waterborne rather than solvent-borne, and associated drying. The car is clear-over-base; their finish line is just set up to produce a clearcoat finish with a high degree of texture. As you've remarked, dark colours show this up much worse than lighter ones.
The key legal issue if BMW are saying that the car is within acceptable parameters for their production line: was it mis-described to you?
Many dealerships have small sprayed panels in the various range colours available for customers to select their finish from.
Unless there is a specific disclaimer to the contrary, the dealership is representing to you that these are an accurate portrayal of the finish options on the car. They are likely hand-sprayed and probably of a higher finish quality than the robot production line, but that is admittedly a generalisation.
However, it would be worth going into your dealership, and checking the texture on the sample panels against the finish on the vehicle you have been supplied with. If the texture is more acceptable on the sample panels they provide, I would suggest you have a good case that they are in breach of the supply contract.
Context/disclaimer
: I am a refinisher by trade, working with both solvent and waterborne paints. I am also legally qualified. However, this is informal, off-the-cuff advice - you should always obtain paid professional legal advice before taking action.
HTH
Tol
The key legal issue if BMW are saying that the car is within acceptable parameters for their production line: was it mis-described to you?
Many dealerships have small sprayed panels in the various range colours available for customers to select their finish from.
Unless there is a specific disclaimer to the contrary, the dealership is representing to you that these are an accurate portrayal of the finish options on the car. They are likely hand-sprayed and probably of a higher finish quality than the robot production line, but that is admittedly a generalisation.
However, it would be worth going into your dealership, and checking the texture on the sample panels against the finish on the vehicle you have been supplied with. If the texture is more acceptable on the sample panels they provide, I would suggest you have a good case that they are in breach of the supply contract.
Context/disclaimer
: I am a refinisher by trade, working with both solvent and waterborne paints. I am also legally qualified. However, this is informal, off-the-cuff advice - you should always obtain paid professional legal advice before taking action.HTH
Tol
Noticed this on an 07 E60 525td at work the other day. Nice black car, but really poor orange peel. The black 04 X5 3.0d isn't as bad, but remembering back to a nice black E39 M5 that was almost like glass.
I think it's getting worse, I remember being at a car show a few years ago and remembering how the BMW's pretty much stood apart from all others with the best paint along with the Porsches, but that was mainly E46 and older cars... the newer ones really are letting the show down
Dave
I think it's getting worse, I remember being at a car show a few years ago and remembering how the BMW's pretty much stood apart from all others with the best paint along with the Porsches, but that was mainly E46 and older cars... the newer ones really are letting the show down
Dave
Anatol said:
It won't be ANYTHING to do with the paint being waterborne rather than solvent-borne, and associated drying. The car is clear-over-base; their finish line is just set up to produce a clearcoat finish with a high degree of texture. As you've remarked, dark colours show this up much worse than lighter ones.
The key legal issue if BMW are saying that the car is within acceptable parameters for their production line: was it mis-described to you?
Many dealerships have small sprayed panels in the various range colours available for customers to select their finish from.
Unless there is a specific disclaimer to the contrary, the dealership is representing to you that these are an accurate portrayal of the finish options on the car. They are likely hand-sprayed and probably of a higher finish quality than the robot production line, but that is admittedly a generalisation.
However, it would be worth going into your dealership, and checking the texture on the sample panels against the finish on the vehicle you have been supplied with. If the texture is more acceptable on the sample panels they provide, I would suggest you have a good case that they are in breach of the supply contract.
Context/disclaimer : I am a refinisher by trade, working with both solvent and waterborne paints. I am also legally qualified. However, this is informal, off-the-cuff advice - you should always obtain paid professional legal advice before taking action.
HTH
Tol
Good idea about checking the finish on the sample panels.The key legal issue if BMW are saying that the car is within acceptable parameters for their production line: was it mis-described to you?
Many dealerships have small sprayed panels in the various range colours available for customers to select their finish from.
Unless there is a specific disclaimer to the contrary, the dealership is representing to you that these are an accurate portrayal of the finish options on the car. They are likely hand-sprayed and probably of a higher finish quality than the robot production line, but that is admittedly a generalisation.
However, it would be worth going into your dealership, and checking the texture on the sample panels against the finish on the vehicle you have been supplied with. If the texture is more acceptable on the sample panels they provide, I would suggest you have a good case that they are in breach of the supply contract.
Context/disclaimer
: I am a refinisher by trade, working with both solvent and waterborne paints. I am also legally qualified. However, this is informal, off-the-cuff advice - you should always obtain paid professional legal advice before taking action.HTH
Tol
We did look at these when deciding on the colour and I'm sure would have noticed had they been as bad as the paint on the car.
Next step, as you say, is to engage with them legally.
Mr Whippy said:
Noticed this on an 07 E60 525td at work the other day. Nice black car, but really poor orange peel. The black 04 X5 3.0d isn't as bad, but remembering back to a nice black E39 M5 that was almost like glass.
I think it's getting worse, I remember being at a car show a few years ago and remembering how the BMW's pretty much stood apart from all others with the best paint along with the Porsches, but that was mainly E46 and older cars... the newer ones really are letting the show down
Dave
Agreed, I've had a few BMW's previously and the paint was okay. Perhaps not quite up to Porsche standards but certainly nothing like the latest cars.I think it's getting worse, I remember being at a car show a few years ago and remembering how the BMW's pretty much stood apart from all others with the best paint along with the Porsches, but that was mainly E46 and older cars... the newer ones really are letting the show down
Dave
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