Discussion
But then aren't you possibly looking for the wrong model of E30?
My thinking would be thus:
The 320is will carrying essentially similar running costs as an E30 M3 due to its engine configuration yet (on the track) will not offer you the same perfromance as an M3.
An E30 318is will offer less performance but probably just as much fun if you're prepared to compromise on lap times ( as clearly, by expressing an interest in the 320is, you are)...and at an even lower purchase price....and probably looks as good if not better.
This what is the point of a 320is?.....Well, probably nothing more than an 'interesting' collectors item.
Would I have one?....Well... Question = probably "Yes" for "the right car at the right price". But that's just "me".
I'm not sure I'd being thinking in terms of one as a budget surrogate for an M3 'track-slag' though?
My thinking would be thus:
The 320is will carrying essentially similar running costs as an E30 M3 due to its engine configuration yet (on the track) will not offer you the same perfromance as an M3.
An E30 318is will offer less performance but probably just as much fun if you're prepared to compromise on lap times ( as clearly, by expressing an interest in the 320is, you are)...and at an even lower purchase price....and probably looks as good if not better.
This what is the point of a 320is?.....Well, probably nothing more than an 'interesting' collectors item.
Would I have one?....Well... Question = probably "Yes" for "the right car at the right price". But that's just "me".
I'm not sure I'd being thinking in terms of one as a budget surrogate for an M3 'track-slag' though?
The main reason i want an 320is as opposed to the M3 is mainly the price and the fact that 325i sport are selling between 3 and 4 so i thought i might aswell just opt for the IS because it will be quicker and have a quicker turn in that the 325 sport.
I'm quite happy for the 320is not to be as quick as an M3 because its a different car but for a cheap track car i think it will be good. i did have a 318is and it was not quite quick enough plus the 320is should hold it value quite well and i think 318is are over priced for what they are. The car should handle well and i've heard nothing but good things about them and although on paper it shouldn't handle or go as well as an M3 it not all about the car but the driver aswell, thats how i passed civic type R's, caterhams, M3's and an M5, because the drivers were not very good.
I'm quite happy for the 320is not to be as quick as an M3 because its a different car but for a cheap track car i think it will be good. i did have a 318is and it was not quite quick enough plus the 320is should hold it value quite well and i think 318is are over priced for what they are. The car should handle well and i've heard nothing but good things about them and although on paper it shouldn't handle or go as well as an M3 it not all about the car but the driver aswell, thats how i passed civic type R's, caterhams, M3's and an M5, because the drivers were not very good.
Even though the E36 328i could be quicker, i don't think it would be given the fact that the car would way more than the 320is and the 328i only has 190 BHP which is the same as an 320is and if you stripped that aswell i think it would be quicker and unless you were gonna spend money on upgrading the 328i. Which you could also do on the 320is.
Hmmm...interesting.
I hadn't realised the 320is was pushing out that much power. For some reason I'd imagined it would be much nearer the 318is type of power but infact you're right it's actually very close to the earliest M3's.
Then I assumed the M3 would be lighter by some margin...but again "No!"
So actually, I take it back! If you can find one around that budget it's probably quite a good proposition as a track car at a reasonable price.
What about the third one of those that PJR posted at the beginning? Looks like it's been fettled for some increased performance as well?
I hadn't realised the 320is was pushing out that much power. For some reason I'd imagined it would be much nearer the 318is type of power but infact you're right it's actually very close to the earliest M3's.
Then I assumed the M3 would be lighter by some margin...but again "No!"
So actually, I take it back! If you can find one around that budget it's probably quite a good proposition as a track car at a reasonable price.
What about the third one of those that PJR posted at the beginning? Looks like it's been fettled for some increased performance as well?
.. I just love that bodykit.... oh to find a 325 sport in my budget!In a straight line the 328i might be quicker but i would of guessed that the 2.8 6 cylinder engine would way a bit more that a 2 litre 4 cylinder engine so the 320is would be better at turning in than the 328i and easier to slow down. I see your point that it could be quicker but not without modification and i think that the 320is would be more positive and better to drive and have a much better turn in. I have owned 2 E30's and i love the way they look.
The only problem with the grey 320is is it was a bit more than i wanted to pay and i didn't manage to catch the one that went on pistonheads for £3500 and i do know of another for sale but i can't get hold of the person selling it.
Mr derin100 have you ever sold one?
The only problem with the grey 320is is it was a bit more than i wanted to pay and i didn't manage to catch the one that went on pistonheads for £3500 and i do know of another for sale but i can't get hold of the person selling it.
Mr derin100 have you ever sold one?
"Mr derin100 have you ever sold one?"
No!...I've never even seen one in the flesh! LOL They are very rare in this country which is why I was initially surprised that someone was looking for one as a cheaper alternative for track use to the E30 M3. In fact, I'm surprised that PJR found three advertised simultaneous in the classifieds here.
Nevertheless, I have found you these two if you're willing to travel a little
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I like the advert for the next one...Not a photo I would have chosen if I were selling the car!
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
No!...I've never even seen one in the flesh! LOL They are very rare in this country which is why I was initially surprised that someone was looking for one as a cheaper alternative for track use to the E30 M3. In fact, I'm surprised that PJR found three advertised simultaneous in the classifieds here.
Nevertheless, I have found you these two if you're willing to travel a little
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I like the advert for the next one...Not a photo I would have chosen if I were selling the car!
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Fast Lane tested a 320is years back and it was certainly not as quick as an E30 M3 ( no surprise with less power ) - IIRC they were a bit disappointed with it - i'll dig the test out - Fast Lane mag also tested an E36 325i saloon ( when it came out) against a last of the line E30 325 Sport ) The E36 was far more composed in the corners.
I think a nice fit E36 328i with some geo changes, new suspension and a Z3 rack would be just as enjoyable as a 320is on a track ( possibly for less money than the 320is ).
I think the M3 would be my choice if I was going for an E30 shape
derin100 said:
"Mr derin100 have you ever sold one?"
No!...I've never even seen one in the flesh! LOL They are very rare in this country which is why I was initially surprised that someone was looking for one as a cheaper alternative for track use to the E30 M3. In fact, I'm surprised that PJR found three advertised simultaneous in the classifieds here.
Nevertheless, I have found you these two if you're willing to travel a little
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I like the advert for the next one...Not a photo I would have chosen if I were selling the car!
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
One careful owner.....No!...I've never even seen one in the flesh! LOL They are very rare in this country which is why I was initially surprised that someone was looking for one as a cheaper alternative for track use to the E30 M3. In fact, I'm surprised that PJR found three advertised simultaneous in the classifieds here.
Nevertheless, I have found you these two if you're willing to travel a little
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
I like the advert for the next one...Not a photo I would have chosen if I were selling the car!
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html...
....and then me!
It is always very nice when people who have not got a clue - never seen / driven a particular model and have just read journos who usually cannot tell their arse from their elbow start extrapolating figures, lap times etc. I am sorry I sound like a grumpy sod, but it is Monday and funnily enough I used to track a 320iS and it happens that my brother and I built his one owner early E36 325i into a track car too. Btw, the early 325i with forged internals are the cars to get and not a 328i if you are to track an E36, but that's a different story...
The 328i, nice car that it is, will not see which way the 320iS went on track / fast road driving if the latter is set up properly. Mine had a fresh engine with overisize higher compression Vosner pistons and Alpha-N engine management, I was also running Billstein / H&R Nurburgring set up, Eibach ARBs, Ground Control top mounts and the car came at 1180kg. No matter how light the 328i lump is, the E36 will never match the 320iS for speed of turn and communication with the driver.
My brother's car is a one owner from new, ex-BMW car used in the photoshoot for the 1992 E36 Coupe brochure in Germany (LHD). We are running E36 M3 headers and a remap on the standard lump which is good for 210bhp, E46 330i front brakes and E46 328i rear brakes conversion, Goodridge hoses, H&R coilovers, E36 M3 Evo anti-roll bars and 17" BBS RS wheels in the correct offsets. It is a very nice car and in a straight line can keep up with the E30, but once you get into the twisties...
Lastly, running costs - the S14B20 engine is absolutely bullet-proof provided it gets serviced as per BMWs recommendations. The Getrag 260 box is also bulletproof and can take much more power. The rest of the car is standard E30 325 stuff. Eurocarparts/GSF etc. carry all the parts you can shake a stick at for the same, if not better prices than E36. Lastly, there is great community - http://board.s14power.com/ which can answer all of your questions and provide help...
P.P. A 320iS engine is good for up to 300Bhp in race trim... Beat that with a 328i
The 328i, nice car that it is, will not see which way the 320iS went on track / fast road driving if the latter is set up properly. Mine had a fresh engine with overisize higher compression Vosner pistons and Alpha-N engine management, I was also running Billstein / H&R Nurburgring set up, Eibach ARBs, Ground Control top mounts and the car came at 1180kg. No matter how light the 328i lump is, the E36 will never match the 320iS for speed of turn and communication with the driver.
My brother's car is a one owner from new, ex-BMW car used in the photoshoot for the 1992 E36 Coupe brochure in Germany (LHD). We are running E36 M3 headers and a remap on the standard lump which is good for 210bhp, E46 330i front brakes and E46 328i rear brakes conversion, Goodridge hoses, H&R coilovers, E36 M3 Evo anti-roll bars and 17" BBS RS wheels in the correct offsets. It is a very nice car and in a straight line can keep up with the E30, but once you get into the twisties...
Lastly, running costs - the S14B20 engine is absolutely bullet-proof provided it gets serviced as per BMWs recommendations. The Getrag 260 box is also bulletproof and can take much more power. The rest of the car is standard E30 325 stuff. Eurocarparts/GSF etc. carry all the parts you can shake a stick at for the same, if not better prices than E36. Lastly, there is great community - http://board.s14power.com/ which can answer all of your questions and provide help...
P.P. A 320iS engine is good for up to 300Bhp in race trim... Beat that with a 328i
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What you say almost makes sense, apart from the idea that a 328i is quicker than a very early (1991-1992) E36 325i because it is not! If you pick a dog of a 325i off a council estate with "n" owners and zero maintenance, maybe a 328i will come ahead. You are welcome to a blast in it, if you are around London.BTW, I have driven plenty of 328i - I got regular use of a friend's mint E46 Tourer and prior to that - a E36 328i Sport
anonymous said:
[redacted]
BTW. The M50B25 ultimately is the better engine than the 2.8 limp-wristed motor for various reasons, but I don't see a point in continuing the argument here. Maybe in a separate topic
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