BMW 4 Cylinder Engines (post 2008)
Discussion
Hi all,
Looking for some advice on the 4 cylinder BMW engines please, preferably the diesel or would also consider petrol (if generally reliable).
Thinking of avoiding the N47 due to the timing chain horror stories. Unless I come across any examples which have already had the job done or frequent oil changes. Was there any year in particular where BMW resolved the chain issue?
I believe the n47 was replaced by the B47 engine. Does this engine have any such issues with the chain? Or any other common or expensive repairs? I have seen a 66 plate 320d EfficientDynamics model with 130k, but very good history and regular oil changes. Anything I should be wary of?
Also, what are the 320i's like from 2010-2016? Same goes with the 4 cylinder engines (petrol or diesel) with the 1 series from 2010-2016.
Looking forward to any advice. Would really appreciate it
Looking for some advice on the 4 cylinder BMW engines please, preferably the diesel or would also consider petrol (if generally reliable).
Thinking of avoiding the N47 due to the timing chain horror stories. Unless I come across any examples which have already had the job done or frequent oil changes. Was there any year in particular where BMW resolved the chain issue?
I believe the n47 was replaced by the B47 engine. Does this engine have any such issues with the chain? Or any other common or expensive repairs? I have seen a 66 plate 320d EfficientDynamics model with 130k, but very good history and regular oil changes. Anything I should be wary of?
Also, what are the 320i's like from 2010-2016? Same goes with the 4 cylinder engines (petrol or diesel) with the 1 series from 2010-2016.
Looking forward to any advice. Would really appreciate it
N47's are a very good engine but the chain is certainly an issue. Some break at 80,000 and some do lots more.
Plenty of places do a drive in drive out chain job for under a grand now but you want proper BMW or Febi supplied chain kits, not BGA crap, FAI or anything else for that matter.
I'd always have a B47 in preference. But on N47's, if the engine is clean inside and the chains are quiet, just drive the bloody thing.
4 cylinder petrols are all crap until the B48.............the N43 is absolute s
te and the N20 in the F30 is not looking that good in old age.
Plenty of places do a drive in drive out chain job for under a grand now but you want proper BMW or Febi supplied chain kits, not BGA crap, FAI or anything else for that matter.
I'd always have a B47 in preference. But on N47's, if the engine is clean inside and the chains are quiet, just drive the bloody thing.
4 cylinder petrols are all crap until the B48.............the N43 is absolute s
te and the N20 in the F30 is not looking that good in old age.Mika_98 said:
Hi all,
Looking for some advice on the 4 cylinder BMW engines please, preferably the diesel or would also consider petrol (if generally reliable).
Thinking of avoiding the N47 due to the timing chain horror stories. Unless I come across any examples which have already had the job done or frequent oil changes. Was there any year in particular where BMW resolved the chain issue?
I believe the n47 was replaced by the B47 engine. Does this engine have any such issues with the chain? Or any other common or expensive repairs? I have seen a 66 plate 320d EfficientDynamics model with 130k, but very good history and regular oil changes. Anything I should be wary of?
Also, what are the 320i's like from 2010-2016? Same goes with the 4 cylinder engines (petrol or diesel) with the 1 series from 2010-2016.
Looking forward to any advice. Would really appreciate it
Buy a car that's been looked after and maintained, properly, with paperwork/invoices to show etc... No paperwork = carry on lookingLooking for some advice on the 4 cylinder BMW engines please, preferably the diesel or would also consider petrol (if generally reliable).
Thinking of avoiding the N47 due to the timing chain horror stories. Unless I come across any examples which have already had the job done or frequent oil changes. Was there any year in particular where BMW resolved the chain issue?
I believe the n47 was replaced by the B47 engine. Does this engine have any such issues with the chain? Or any other common or expensive repairs? I have seen a 66 plate 320d EfficientDynamics model with 130k, but very good history and regular oil changes. Anything I should be wary of?
Also, what are the 320i's like from 2010-2016? Same goes with the 4 cylinder engines (petrol or diesel) with the 1 series from 2010-2016.
Looking forward to any advice. Would really appreciate it
We've an F31 325D with the N47, twin turbo. 105k miles on it and it's faultless. But it's been well looked after and well serviced.
My pal Chris has an F31 320D 'Luxury' with nearly 200k on it now; all original bar some of the turbo pipework and 3 new rads in less than 12 months (drives the Autobahn a lot and has had a few stones chucked through the front, unfortunately) - zero issues; oil changed every 5k without fail - uses Mann filters only and runs any 5W40 that meets BMWs LL04 specs etc
There are lots of both engines with very high miles; all down to being well looked after.
Ignore the naysayers and the tinterweb horror stories; you only ever hear the negatives, never the positives...
Ran my N47 F11 up to 200K miles with just 20k oil services over 10 years. No issues. Chains inspected at 130K miles when the DMF failed. Cars that do big miles on motorways don't have an issue. If you do lots of town driving with start stop you get more chain issues. The key is to listen to your engine... get a chain rattle get them done before they fail. Currently have B47 on 105k miles and Jaguar 5.0 R Chains are only an issue if you think they last forever and ignore warnings. It could be worse then engine might have a cam belt, look at all those that fail.
Quarry Motors in Sheffield who specialise in breaking BMWs did an interesting piece on the N47 and said, in the video, that the B47 sufferes the same issue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A9d9LxLFjU
I was considering a dirt cheap 1 Series as a stop gap car until the 440i that I want comes up for sale but the really cheap ones are N47 engined diesels and the potential for a massive bill is putting me off. I suppose I could find one with a noisy chain, pay pennies for it and take it straight to Quarry Motors to be fixed before it nukes the engine.
That said, it's the luck of the draw. Mate of mine ran an N47-engined 318d to 125k miles with no issues. He mostly did big, long, cruising type journeys but, of course, there's no way of knowing how an old car has been used previously.
I was considering a dirt cheap 1 Series as a stop gap car until the 440i that I want comes up for sale but the really cheap ones are N47 engined diesels and the potential for a massive bill is putting me off. I suppose I could find one with a noisy chain, pay pennies for it and take it straight to Quarry Motors to be fixed before it nukes the engine.
That said, it's the luck of the draw. Mate of mine ran an N47-engined 318d to 125k miles with no issues. He mostly did big, long, cruising type journeys but, of course, there's no way of knowing how an old car has been used previously.
Edited by MitchT on Saturday 10th May 11:39
Indeed. Attitudes towards car engine chains are curious. They are a maintenance item like bicycle and motorbike chains, but you don't hear bikers complaining about replacing them. People seem to think they should last forever, forgetting the rails that guide them are made of plastic, which also doesn't last forever.
Start stop doesn't help each time the starter jerks on them, and neither does excessive soot in the oil, which acts like an abrasive.
Start stop doesn't help each time the starter jerks on them, and neither does excessive soot in the oil, which acts like an abrasive.
rottenegg said:
Attitudes towards car engine chains are curious. They are a maintenance item like bicycle and motorbike chains, but you don't hear bikers complaining about replacing them.
I know nothing about bikes so I can't comment on bikers' attitudes towards replacing the bike chains. What I do know is that replacing car chains can be quite a big job and an expensive one, so it's understandable that car owners might not be so laid back about it. If they're a service item, design them to be reasonably easy to replace.Thanks for all the replies. It helps to know the N47's are capable of high miles if well maintained and used for longer runs. What I really want is a straight 6 touring but the right spec hasn't come along yet, everyone seems to hold onto the good ones! 
Considering a 320d until I find the "right" car.
I understand, like any car - belts, chains, etc. are all bound to fail at some point. It just seems to be a red flag on the N47 as its a costly job.
Considering a 320d until I find the "right" car.I understand, like any car - belts, chains, etc. are all bound to fail at some point. It just seems to be a red flag on the N47 as its a costly job.
The Conflated Outlier said:
N47's are a very good engine but the chain is certainly an issue. Some break at 80,000 and some do lots more.
Plenty of places do a drive in drive out chain job for under a grand now but you want proper BMW or Febi supplied chain kits, not BGA crap, FAI or anything else for that matter.
I'd always have a B47 in preference. But on N47's, if the engine is clean inside and the chains are quiet, just drive the bloody thing.
4 cylinder petrols are all crap until the B48.............the N43 is absolute ste and the N20 in the F30 is not looking that good in old age.
Thanks for the info, will keep note on the kits you mention and also avoid the petrol 4 pots.Plenty of places do a drive in drive out chain job for under a grand now but you want proper BMW or Febi supplied chain kits, not BGA crap, FAI or anything else for that matter.
I'd always have a B47 in preference. But on N47's, if the engine is clean inside and the chains are quiet, just drive the bloody thing.
4 cylinder petrols are all crap until the B48.............the N43 is absolute s
te and the N20 in the F30 is not looking that good in old age.rottenegg said:
Indeed. Attitudes towards car engine chains are curious. They are a maintenance item like bicycle and motorbike chains, but you don't hear bikers complaining about replacing them. People seem to think they should last forever, forgetting the rails that guide them are made of plastic, which also doesn't last forever.
Start stop doesn't help each time the starter jerks on them, and neither does excessive soot in the oil, which acts like an abrasive.
A motorbike drive chain can be changed in half an hour.Start stop doesn't help each time the starter jerks on them, and neither does excessive soot in the oil, which acts like an abrasive.
Many cars have easily changed camchains at the front of the engine.
The N47 engine has the cam chain at the drive end, which means it's a big job. Engine out, flywheel off etc.
If you listen very hard you may hear bikers telling jokes about Honda cam chains from 40 years ago.
Honda V4s like the VF750 changed to gear driven cams there so many failures.
Many cars have had cam chains which last the life of the engine.
Arguably less so since we started expecting OHC engines to last 200,000 miles with only oil changes etc.
MitchT said:
rottenegg said:
Attitudes towards car engine chains are curious. They are a maintenance item like bicycle and motorbike chains, but you don't hear bikers complaining about replacing them.
I know nothing about bikes so I can't comment on bikers' attitudes towards replacing the bike chains. What I do know is that replacing car chains can be quite a big job and an expensive one, so it's understandable that car owners might not be so laid back about it. If they're a service item, design them to be reasonably easy to replace.OutInTheShed said:
A motorbike drive chain can be changed in half an hour.
Many cars have easily changed camchains at the front of the engine.
The N47 engine has the cam chain at the drive end, which means it's a big job. Engine out, flywheel off etc.
If you listen very hard you may hear bikers telling jokes about Honda cam chains from 40 years ago.
Honda V4s like the VF750 changed to gear driven cams there so many failures.
Many cars have had cam chains which last the life of the engine.
Arguably less so since we started expecting OHC engines to last 200,000 miles with only oil changes etc.
Yes bike chains are easier to replace, but they still wear out all the same, but car owners seem to think everything under the bonnet should last forever because they paid several £1000 for it.Many cars have easily changed camchains at the front of the engine.
The N47 engine has the cam chain at the drive end, which means it's a big job. Engine out, flywheel off etc.
If you listen very hard you may hear bikers telling jokes about Honda cam chains from 40 years ago.
Honda V4s like the VF750 changed to gear driven cams there so many failures.
Many cars have had cam chains which last the life of the engine.
Arguably less so since we started expecting OHC engines to last 200,000 miles with only oil changes etc.
Which is kind of my point regarding owner attitudes. People know damn well anything involving major engine surgery is very, very expensive these days, right?
So why then, do they neglect and abuse their cars, knowing full well it will lead to an big expensive bill eventually? Which they can then bittertly complain about on Mumsnet and Watchdog, and it's BMW's fault, Audi's fault, VW's fault for not designing engines to tolerate their neglect and indifference.
Chain location is where it is on modern engines because of the high compressions causing crank whip, which can upset the cam phasing if they are the front of the engine, especially on 6 pots with long cranks and cams, hence why the chain gear was moved to the back where all the heavy rotating mass is to absorb the harmonics.
More and more garages are doing the subframe drop method these days, which drastically reduces the time, and therefore labour bill......but as ever, prevention is better than the cure.
Just to add to this, I've replaced timing chains on about 5 n47 engines.
Wifes 2008 320d - Original engine failed previous owner due to stuck open EGR which turned the oil to talc. I bought from auction and fitted a used engine and fitted a new chain. Car is still going having since been purchased by my brother. Engine is on around 150k now, EGR / DPF deleted, 6k oil changes.
Brothers 2007 320d - Original engine I believe snapped a chain not long before he purchased as it was listed as recently having a chain done. Unfortunately the engine died catastrophically a few days after my brother purchasing, melted a piston - all of it! Possible cracked piston when the chain went the first time or bad injector. This resulted in a used engine I also fitted a chain to. Since sold to purchase the car above.
Wifes current F10 520d - Bought with low oil pressure fault, stripped and found timing chain guide had failed and blocked the pickup. Cleaned up and new chain fitted, EGR / DPF still present, 6k oil changes - no further issues to report after 30k.
My old e60 520d - Purchased with close to 200k on the clock, chain had been done before but could hear the rhythmic sound, decided to do the chain again to be safe, EGR / DPF removed, 6k oil changes, sold with 250k on the clock, now owned by a mate of mine.
Friends 118d - Completely pointless doing the chain on this. His wife had the car from new as a company vehicle, They then purchased it when she moved jobs. I was asked a few weeks back if I could do the chain as the car had covered 220k. I couldn't hear the chain at all, however he insisted the job was done - pulled it all apart and you would have struggled to tell it apart from an engine that had covered 10k let alone 220. Minimal wear. Its had 10k oil changes from new. Never seen anything like it.
Current f11 530d - Ill need to do the chain on that in the near future as its making the same rhythmic sound the N47 does, however I'm not sure if Im over thinking it as im pretty sure if it was an n47 the noise / clatter of the engine would have drowned out what I can hear on the N57. I've heard it now, so I wont sleep properly until I've done it.
I think the moral of the story with this range of engines - particularly the diesels is to scrap the recommended oil change intervals and stick to 10k max.
Mind you, I expect the wear to have been done in the first few years of life on the recommended service intervals.
Wifes 2008 320d - Original engine failed previous owner due to stuck open EGR which turned the oil to talc. I bought from auction and fitted a used engine and fitted a new chain. Car is still going having since been purchased by my brother. Engine is on around 150k now, EGR / DPF deleted, 6k oil changes.
Brothers 2007 320d - Original engine I believe snapped a chain not long before he purchased as it was listed as recently having a chain done. Unfortunately the engine died catastrophically a few days after my brother purchasing, melted a piston - all of it! Possible cracked piston when the chain went the first time or bad injector. This resulted in a used engine I also fitted a chain to. Since sold to purchase the car above.
Wifes current F10 520d - Bought with low oil pressure fault, stripped and found timing chain guide had failed and blocked the pickup. Cleaned up and new chain fitted, EGR / DPF still present, 6k oil changes - no further issues to report after 30k.
My old e60 520d - Purchased with close to 200k on the clock, chain had been done before but could hear the rhythmic sound, decided to do the chain again to be safe, EGR / DPF removed, 6k oil changes, sold with 250k on the clock, now owned by a mate of mine.
Friends 118d - Completely pointless doing the chain on this. His wife had the car from new as a company vehicle, They then purchased it when she moved jobs. I was asked a few weeks back if I could do the chain as the car had covered 220k. I couldn't hear the chain at all, however he insisted the job was done - pulled it all apart and you would have struggled to tell it apart from an engine that had covered 10k let alone 220. Minimal wear. Its had 10k oil changes from new. Never seen anything like it.
Current f11 530d - Ill need to do the chain on that in the near future as its making the same rhythmic sound the N47 does, however I'm not sure if Im over thinking it as im pretty sure if it was an n47 the noise / clatter of the engine would have drowned out what I can hear on the N57. I've heard it now, so I wont sleep properly until I've done it.
I think the moral of the story with this range of engines - particularly the diesels is to scrap the recommended oil change intervals and stick to 10k max.
Mind you, I expect the wear to have been done in the first few years of life on the recommended service intervals.
Edited by AlexGSi2000 on Tuesday 10th June 18:33
Edited by AlexGSi2000 on Tuesday 10th June 18:35
I bought a pre-registered 123d with the N47 engine in 2008 and it only got serviced at the BMW intervals because I also bought a Service Pack!
Then I started reading about cam-chain issues, fancied a change and didn't do the miles to justify a diesel so I sold it still going strong on 81K miles.
It got an MOT in November 2023 on 132K but hasn't had one since that expired, but I've no idea if it was a cam-chain or a write-off that killed it.
When I asked my BMW Indy he recommended a straight 6, preferably petrol so as he had an E39 530i I bought a 3 litre Z4 Coupe and a 325ti Compact as a daily driver!
ETA I wouldn't go back to a 4 now.
Then I started reading about cam-chain issues, fancied a change and didn't do the miles to justify a diesel so I sold it still going strong on 81K miles.
It got an MOT in November 2023 on 132K but hasn't had one since that expired, but I've no idea if it was a cam-chain or a write-off that killed it.
When I asked my BMW Indy he recommended a straight 6, preferably petrol so as he had an E39 530i I bought a 3 litre Z4 Coupe and a 325ti Compact as a daily driver!
ETA I wouldn't go back to a 4 now.
AlexGSi2000 said:
Original engine failed previous owner due to stuck open EGR which turned the oil to talc.
This is the killer of many modern diesels, not just BMW's. EGR valves seem to be of lamentably poor design/quality these days and deletion is the best thing you can do. BMW would have tested and tested this engine over millions of miles but a crap EGR valve firing soot into the oil never occured.
Despite someone posting above about the N20's issues, I've had no issues with my 2015 428i N20 4 Cyl Petrol Turbo.
I've ignored the OBC and BMW's condition based servicing and just replaced the oil every 12 months. Mine is a September 2015 car and issues with the N20 timing chain guides were resolved by BMW around February that year so I've had no issues. It's now nearly ten years old, has done 65k and has passed the last three MOT's without even an advisory. It does 40-45MPG on a 70mph cruise controlled long run but still does 0-60 in 5.5s. It's a great compromise between frugality and performance IMO. Average MPG during my usage is about 30-32.
I've ignored the OBC and BMW's condition based servicing and just replaced the oil every 12 months. Mine is a September 2015 car and issues with the N20 timing chain guides were resolved by BMW around February that year so I've had no issues. It's now nearly ten years old, has done 65k and has passed the last three MOT's without even an advisory. It does 40-45MPG on a 70mph cruise controlled long run but still does 0-60 in 5.5s. It's a great compromise between frugality and performance IMO. Average MPG during my usage is about 30-32.
I-am-the-reverend said:
AlexGSi2000 said:
Original engine failed previous owner due to stuck open EGR which turned the oil to talc.
This is the killer of many modern diesels, not just BMW's. EGR valves seem to be of lamentably poor design/quality these days and deletion is the best thing you can do. BMW would have tested and tested this engine over millions of miles but a crap EGR valve firing soot into the oil never occured.
Deleting the EGR is illegal, chances of getting caught may be slim, but buyers may be wising up to this kind of thing?
I think the killer of modern diesels will be emissions at MoT time, I don't think they will be as easy to keep legal as previous generations after 15 years and 150k miles.
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