Discussion
1st thing Ive never owned a BMW before nor have I driven any of the Diesels.
Anyway cut to the chase Im kind of interested in the 330d Im aware that they come in 184bhp/204bhp & 231bhp versions.
I would want the 204bhp or 231bhp version and ideally in the Sport or M Sport kit. Im not a fan of Auto but would like to hear from owners who have these cars with auto to see what real life average and best MPG they are getting ditto manual.
I have heard that on long motorway runs witht he 6 speed 330D you can get 50mpg! I also hear that @70mph on the manual the revs are below 1700rpm.
Ive driven many miles in the VAG 115GT TDI PD unit and really enjoy the thrust in gears - I currently drive the Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo 220bhp & 230lbf and I guess combined Im getting 28-32 best being 38mpg with nearly 510miles from a 63ltr tank and so far the worst is 20mpg (when I first got the car!!)
I like the power of turbo units hence why Im not thinking about the 330i (although price dependant it might be an option).
Price wise well I want to spend the least amount possible for the best example (who doesnt). Milage well I think I might be travelling 12-15k a year.
What info does each model have on the Multi Function computer? Or is it purely the dial guage for MPG?
Is the 330d Touring a better buy value for money over the saloon & roughly in feet how long is it (need to check it fits into my garage).
Budget - well for the older model I wouldnt want to be spending over £12k and for the new shape I guess if its possible £20k. The alternatives would be buy a £7k Golf/Leon TDi150, BMW 120d etc.
What are the main problems with the 330d?
Whats the difference in real world performance between the old model and new model.
And any other info that would help me out.
Thanks
Anyway cut to the chase Im kind of interested in the 330d Im aware that they come in 184bhp/204bhp & 231bhp versions.
I would want the 204bhp or 231bhp version and ideally in the Sport or M Sport kit. Im not a fan of Auto but would like to hear from owners who have these cars with auto to see what real life average and best MPG they are getting ditto manual.
I have heard that on long motorway runs witht he 6 speed 330D you can get 50mpg! I also hear that @70mph on the manual the revs are below 1700rpm.
Ive driven many miles in the VAG 115GT TDI PD unit and really enjoy the thrust in gears - I currently drive the Fiat Coupe 20V Turbo 220bhp & 230lbf and I guess combined Im getting 28-32 best being 38mpg with nearly 510miles from a 63ltr tank and so far the worst is 20mpg (when I first got the car!!)
I like the power of turbo units hence why Im not thinking about the 330i (although price dependant it might be an option).
Price wise well I want to spend the least amount possible for the best example (who doesnt). Milage well I think I might be travelling 12-15k a year.
What info does each model have on the Multi Function computer? Or is it purely the dial guage for MPG?
Is the 330d Touring a better buy value for money over the saloon & roughly in feet how long is it (need to check it fits into my garage).
Budget - well for the older model I wouldnt want to be spending over £12k and for the new shape I guess if its possible £20k. The alternatives would be buy a £7k Golf/Leon TDi150, BMW 120d etc.
What are the main problems with the 330d?
Whats the difference in real world performance between the old model and new model.
And any other info that would help me out.
Thanks
Good advice so far.
So in your 204bhp 330d Auto your getting between 35-42mpg thats pretty good going given its an auto I'd suspect that the manual gives a bit more 5mpg??
I agree getting a 231bhp for <£20k might currently be difficult but its not going to be too long maybe 6-12 months before they start breaking through? I may be wrong but by Sept08 the 55 platers will be 3 years old and going byt he glasses guide and other online guides it should be around 50-60% retained value. So assuming a £32k list price buy (and zero options saloon) then its going to be worth £16-19k.
I must say I do love the torque thrust - Ive had high reving petrols before and its tiring. I recall one test dfrive I had in a Civic VTi a 1.6 with 160bhp IIRC. Anyway I tested it up a steep uphill dual carridgeway in 5th at 30mph foot into the carpet a Ford fiesta 1.25 was following me and just drove past - changed down to 4th still nothing then 3rd nothing then 2nd and only at 7,000rpm did it start to get moving but by the time I had caught up with the fiesta he was at the top of the hill. I tried the same test in the Golf GT TDI 115 6th at 30mph (ish) but thats pretty much Idle so I put it into 5th and by 1500rpm it was accelerating at a good enough pace and by 1900rpm it was into its stride. 4th would have been ideal but I was surprised at how well it did in 5th.
My Fiat C 20VT 5 speed has 230lbf @2500rpm which equates to about 65mph in 5th so you can see the type of real world usable power.
Ive been in a 328i and unless it was thrashed to the red line there was little power (what Im used to) in fact it felt pretty slow just lots of revs and low economy to achieve that.
So in your 204bhp 330d Auto your getting between 35-42mpg thats pretty good going given its an auto I'd suspect that the manual gives a bit more 5mpg??
I agree getting a 231bhp for <£20k might currently be difficult but its not going to be too long maybe 6-12 months before they start breaking through? I may be wrong but by Sept08 the 55 platers will be 3 years old and going byt he glasses guide and other online guides it should be around 50-60% retained value. So assuming a £32k list price buy (and zero options saloon) then its going to be worth £16-19k.
I must say I do love the torque thrust - Ive had high reving petrols before and its tiring. I recall one test dfrive I had in a Civic VTi a 1.6 with 160bhp IIRC. Anyway I tested it up a steep uphill dual carridgeway in 5th at 30mph foot into the carpet a Ford fiesta 1.25 was following me and just drove past - changed down to 4th still nothing then 3rd nothing then 2nd and only at 7,000rpm did it start to get moving but by the time I had caught up with the fiesta he was at the top of the hill. I tried the same test in the Golf GT TDI 115 6th at 30mph (ish) but thats pretty much Idle so I put it into 5th and by 1500rpm it was accelerating at a good enough pace and by 1900rpm it was into its stride. 4th would have been ideal but I was surprised at how well it did in 5th.
My Fiat C 20VT 5 speed has 230lbf @2500rpm which equates to about 65mph in 5th so you can see the type of real world usable power.
Ive been in a 328i and unless it was thrashed to the red line there was little power (what Im used to) in fact it felt pretty slow just lots of revs and low economy to achieve that.
Olf said:
Sounds to me that you be better of looking for a good 320d and getting a DMS remap.
Im pretty cautious about chipping cars - clear concern about reduced engine life + increased insurance premiums.Out of interest how much does a DMS chip increase the premium on a 330d? % wise and actual £ wise.
Thanks
True the 231bhp clearly must be much faster & from the BMW brochure's its a fair bit more economical too!
Agree about the price braket two usually uncomparable cars but my take on it is this - both are 330d's aimed at the same market and in the real world will the additional 27bhp & xxlbf really make the additional costs worth it? Im not sure it does.
The worrying thing I keep hearing about the 330D is turbo failure (possibly due to long service intervals and fleet owners not checking their oil levles during that long period) and the expensive injector costs.
Agree about the price braket two usually uncomparable cars but my take on it is this - both are 330d's aimed at the same market and in the real world will the additional 27bhp & xxlbf really make the additional costs worth it? Im not sure it does.
The worrying thing I keep hearing about the 330D is turbo failure (possibly due to long service intervals and fleet owners not checking their oil levles during that long period) and the expensive injector costs.
Thanks for that Olf.
I personally like the rear of the 231bhp and the front of the 204bhp (not interested in the 184bhp model as many VAG units are quicker in std tune).
The auto is a 5 speed on the 204bhp?
Is it that for the manual a 6 speed indicates that its the 204bhp version?
Also what the very best you have got MPG and the worst. If your driving at 70mph what sort of MPG can I expect?
What are the downsides of the 330D? (ignoring the points "its a diesel"
I personally like the rear of the 231bhp and the front of the 204bhp (not interested in the 184bhp model as many VAG units are quicker in std tune).
The auto is a 5 speed on the 204bhp?
Is it that for the manual a 6 speed indicates that its the 204bhp version?
Also what the very best you have got MPG and the worst. If your driving at 70mph what sort of MPG can I expect?
What are the downsides of the 330D? (ignoring the points "its a diesel"
So 35mpg @ worst & 42mpg @ best out of a 5 speed Auto.... very impressive the manual must be 5mpg better too.
Yes I have read the reports about the 231bhp being all the car you'd ever need (not seen one for the 204bhp though). When you look at the VAG/Skoda/Seat forums they all keep going on about "I killed a 330d the other night" clearly the driver wasnt trying or was lol at the though that a little city car was seriously trying to beat him. Anyway as there is a lot of talk about Ive got 330D beating power puts a huge amount of confidence in the 330D - as its what everybody wants really anyway.
Now where to find a good one? Im in Berkshire (Reading).
Yes I have read the reports about the 231bhp being all the car you'd ever need (not seen one for the 204bhp though). When you look at the VAG/Skoda/Seat forums they all keep going on about "I killed a 330d the other night" clearly the driver wasnt trying or was lol at the though that a little city car was seriously trying to beat him. Anyway as there is a lot of talk about Ive got 330D beating power puts a huge amount of confidence in the 330D - as its what everybody wants really anyway.
Now where to find a good one? Im in Berkshire (Reading).
Hi I just looked at Auto trader and they have a 55 Reg (new shape) 231bhp 330D SE Saloon with pro Nav @ 55,000 miles manual up for £17,899, there is also an Auto with 77,000 miles same reg & SE and thats up for £17,999.
So IMHO given that these and then there are many at £20k 231BHP 330D's then the 204BHP must be somewhere between £10k - £17k (not that big a gap really for the worst oldest examples to the lowest milage newest ones.
So IMHO given that these and then there are many at £20k 231BHP 330D's then the 204BHP must be somewhere between £10k - £17k (not that big a gap really for the worst oldest examples to the lowest milage newest ones.
Depends if it fits into my garage really!
I need to have a look in the garage and see just how big the boot in on the saloon (& try to find one with the ski package!).
I have to say again I very much like the look of your car great colour very nice spec but £600 for roof lining its a rip off new but a very nice to have.
So 330D Sport is the one to go for and ideally (for me) with Manual i think.
I need to have a look in the garage and see just how big the boot in on the saloon (& try to find one with the ski package!).
I have to say again I very much like the look of your car great colour very nice spec but £600 for roof lining its a rip off new but a very nice to have.
So 330D Sport is the one to go for and ideally (for me) with Manual i think.
Ok just done the Parkers online
330D 184bhp Manual
0-60 = 7.6
Top Speed = 141
Mpg = 42
Ins group = 16
Torque = 287lbf/390Nm
330D 184bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 7.9
Mpg = 36
330D 204bhp Manual
0-60 = 7.0
Top Speed = 150
Mpg = 42
Ins Group = 16
Torque = 302lbf/410Nm
330D 204Bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 7.2
Top Speed = 146
Mpg = 36
330D 231Bhp Manual
0-60 = 6.5
Top Speed = 155
Mpg = 46
Ins Group = 17
Torque = 369lbf/500Nm
330D 231Bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 6.6
Mpg = 42
So on fuel economy both the 184 & 204 bhp models if you choose an Auto you will lose 15% in economy while if you choose the 231bhp then you will only lose 9% in economy.
Looking at performance 0-60 the 184 Manual is 3.8% quicker, the 204 Manual is 2.7% quicker and the 231 is 1.5% quicker
Ignoring the Auto v Manual and looking at the Manual 231 v 184 v 204 the difference 0-60 is between 6.5-7.6 seconds (hardly that big) [ I couldnt find any 50-70 increments for any of these cars if you have them please post].
Mpg 184v204v231 manual is a spread of 42-46mpg so assuming a 12k ave milage the difference between the best and worst @£0.979 is £1166 & £1277 (£111).
So perhaps its more sensible to opt for the 184bhp and chip it to 204bhp performance (is this possible?)
330D 184bhp Manual
0-60 = 7.6
Top Speed = 141
Mpg = 42
Ins group = 16
Torque = 287lbf/390Nm
330D 184bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 7.9
Mpg = 36
330D 204bhp Manual
0-60 = 7.0
Top Speed = 150
Mpg = 42
Ins Group = 16
Torque = 302lbf/410Nm
330D 204Bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 7.2
Top Speed = 146
Mpg = 36
330D 231Bhp Manual
0-60 = 6.5
Top Speed = 155
Mpg = 46
Ins Group = 17
Torque = 369lbf/500Nm
330D 231Bhp Auto (differences)
0-60 = 6.6
Mpg = 42
So on fuel economy both the 184 & 204 bhp models if you choose an Auto you will lose 15% in economy while if you choose the 231bhp then you will only lose 9% in economy.
Looking at performance 0-60 the 184 Manual is 3.8% quicker, the 204 Manual is 2.7% quicker and the 231 is 1.5% quicker
Ignoring the Auto v Manual and looking at the Manual 231 v 184 v 204 the difference 0-60 is between 6.5-7.6 seconds (hardly that big) [ I couldnt find any 50-70 increments for any of these cars if you have them please post].
Mpg 184v204v231 manual is a spread of 42-46mpg so assuming a 12k ave milage the difference between the best and worst @£0.979 is £1166 & £1277 (£111).
So perhaps its more sensible to opt for the 184bhp and chip it to 204bhp performance (is this possible?)
Just had a look and the cheapest in the UK is £21k for a 325D SE while a 330D 231 SE start for £17.7k (didnt look at the 320D).
Also I plugged in the 535D for a laugh and to my amazement these start at £21k too for the SE and £23k for an M Sport saloon 65k milage....
Now that really throws everything into the air.
Also I plugged in the 535D for a laugh and to my amazement these start at £21k too for the SE and £23k for an M Sport saloon 65k milage....
Now that really throws everything into the air.
Well yes 330D Mpg range 42-46 & the 325D 47 but your getting 272bhp and not far off 500lbf of torque....
Its a totally different car - too big for my garage - but its at the same price range as the new 3 series 325D & 330D so it cannot be totally excluded.
I often see the 535d on the M ways and the owners are usually flying it looks very agressive.
Id love a 535d M sport but sensible head on 330D is the better choice - then again Golf 1.9 Gt TDi 150 is also a very good choice for £7k!
Its a totally different car - too big for my garage - but its at the same price range as the new 3 series 325D & 330D so it cannot be totally excluded.
I often see the 535d on the M ways and the owners are usually flying it looks very agressive.
Id love a 535d M sport but sensible head on 330D is the better choice - then again Golf 1.9 Gt TDi 150 is also a very good choice for £7k!
So should I also consider the 530D 204bhp & 231Bhp? 535D I think may be too much just now as the car I buy now/soon ish will in 3 odd years time become the Mrs's and I dont think she really needs a 535d power plant - & I may not be willing to give it up!!
What price range are these ball park for an SE & an M Sport?
Thanks again.
What price range are these ball park for an SE & an M Sport?
Thanks again.
The description you posted there 1,200rpm and it pulls hard is exactly what Im looking for in a car - I want lazy performance.
Of course I enjoy chasing the red line and the engine noise but its very rare that I get the chance to do that & with the cost of fuel going up & up the savings between petrol & diesel will just keep growing.
When I had the Golf Gt TDI 115PD you had to make sure you were in the correct gear at about 1800rpm then you could sail past the car in front - conversly if you were at 1300 - 1500rpm it was guttless. So you had to learn how to drive around the quirk of the VAG engine (and a fine unit it is too & highly economical).
The ride in my Fiat Coupe20V Turbo is pretty "crashy" but Im used to it however when someone else has a ride in it from a run of the mill car they usually comment at how rough it is - so maybe the Sport wouldnt bother me too much + for the looks over the SE IMHO I'd put up with it.
Of course I enjoy chasing the red line and the engine noise but its very rare that I get the chance to do that & with the cost of fuel going up & up the savings between petrol & diesel will just keep growing.
When I had the Golf Gt TDI 115PD you had to make sure you were in the correct gear at about 1800rpm then you could sail past the car in front - conversly if you were at 1300 - 1500rpm it was guttless. So you had to learn how to drive around the quirk of the VAG engine (and a fine unit it is too & highly economical).
The ride in my Fiat Coupe20V Turbo is pretty "crashy" but Im used to it however when someone else has a ride in it from a run of the mill car they usually comment at how rough it is - so maybe the Sport wouldnt bother me too much + for the looks over the SE IMHO I'd put up with it.
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