Biking, a great hobby ruined by talentless ******s
Discussion
Nigel Worc's said:
Fleegle said:
Nigel Worc's said:
Fleegle said:
Nigel- I'm curious. How old are you?
53 this year ....... why ? lolI started riding in 1977.
s offNigel do you remember when this was all fields?
No but seriously, my point was this. The old way was that you were responsible for your own learning, and this wasn't verified in any meaningful way.
The new DAS system reduces the training time, but increases the difficulty of passing, which is independently verified. Most importantly it's worth remembering they still pass the same test, or in the case of old-timers, to a higher standard. The second part of the test also isn't artificial, it's a ride along with someone watching you, and unlike your car test they'll fail you for riding like your granny.
I think your issue isn't with DAS but is rider attitude. But I don't know anyone who passed DAS who didn't have the same attitude as me, which was we started to learn to ride after our test. In contrast to your point, a lot of that is probably because everyone was over 21, usually older, so were mostly more mature.
I think it's also worth bearing in mind that the DAS opened up biking to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be able. I would never have the time for regular lessons, or the inclination to ride a lower capacity bike. I don't think that makes me less of a biker than anyone.
No but seriously, my point was this. The old way was that you were responsible for your own learning, and this wasn't verified in any meaningful way.
The new DAS system reduces the training time, but increases the difficulty of passing, which is independently verified. Most importantly it's worth remembering they still pass the same test, or in the case of old-timers, to a higher standard. The second part of the test also isn't artificial, it's a ride along with someone watching you, and unlike your car test they'll fail you for riding like your granny.
I think your issue isn't with DAS but is rider attitude. But I don't know anyone who passed DAS who didn't have the same attitude as me, which was we started to learn to ride after our test. In contrast to your point, a lot of that is probably because everyone was over 21, usually older, so were mostly more mature.
I think it's also worth bearing in mind that the DAS opened up biking to a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise be able. I would never have the time for regular lessons, or the inclination to ride a lower capacity bike. I don't think that makes me less of a biker than anyone.
No, the point is that people wobled around on small bikes before and after passing their test . The DAS lot can and do jump onto faster bikes and have faster crashes like what happened to old slow coach that started this thread.
I was 23 before I had my first 1000cc Superbike on the road. 7 years experience.
Watching someone wobble around verifies sweet bugger all to in the grand scheme of things
I was 23 before I had my first 1000cc Superbike on the road. 7 years experience.
Watching someone wobble around verifies sweet bugger all to in the grand scheme of things
Biker's Nemesis said:
No, the point is that people wobled around on small bikes before and after passing their test . The DAS lot can and do jump onto faster bikes and have faster crashes like what happened to old slow coach that started this thread.
I was 23 before I had my first 1000cc Superbike on the road. 7 years experience.
Watching someone wobble around verifies sweet bugger all to in the grand scheme of things
An expert watching someone wobble is better than nothing. I'm sure you could judge someone's ability by watching them, why couldn't someone else? I was 23 before I had my first 1000cc Superbike on the road. 7 years experience.
Watching someone wobble around verifies sweet bugger all to in the grand scheme of things
Look I respect your experience but I disagree. Well done to you for having that learning curve, but not only do we have mandatory tiered tests now but we also have the more robust testing.
I also don't believe the machinery is as dangerous nowadays, I took a GSXR 1000 out on Sunday in the pissing down rain and it was a pussy cat. The only issue was how much you use the throttle which is a question of maturity, which is why DAS is only for older starters.
You yourself always say "get the bike you want". Is that not a bit of a contrast to what you're now saying that it was better to start small?
Lastly if DAS riders are more of a liability, I also don't know why it's so easy for them to insure these bikes.
Biker's Nemesis said:
No, the point is that people wobled around on small bikes before and after passing their test . The DAS lot can and do jump onto faster bikes and have faster crashes like what happened to old slow coach that started this thread.
Im a DAS but if im honest i agree with you say. Lets face as long as your not a utter tard you will pass DAS. I didnt get taught anything about riding on my training tbh just how to be safe.
Having said that i was happy to jump onto my 600 sports bike. Ive just built up my pace slowly getting used to what the bike will do etc. Im still learning,improving probably slow compared to a lot of people but id rather be that and learn over chucking it into a tree.
I suppose a lot of people just go balls out from the off which is where the problems start.
To throw a spanner in the works, I passed my DAS at 21 and deliberately got a slow 250 to learn on, which I will ride for two years before changing. After reading this thread, I'm billy no mates - the oldies think I started on too big a bike, the young(er)'uns think I'm a pussy for not getting a 600. Why can't I just fit in! 
Edited by Deranged Granny on Tuesday 15th April 10:18
Deranged Granny said:
To throw a spanner in the works, I passed my DAS at 21 and deliberately got a slow 250 to learn on, which I will ride for two years before changing. After reading this thread, I'm billy no mates - the oldies think I started on too big a bike, the young(er)'uns think I'm a pussy for not getting a 600. Why can't I just fit in!
My first bike after passing my DAS was an 800. And even that I found a tad underpowered. Judging by your flat to the tank stylee, get yerself a full on Thou! Edited by Deranged Granny on Tuesday 15th April 10:18
WaferThinHam said:
I started on a 400, then bought a 1000cc twin when I was 19, what does this make me?
my hero 
I passed my DAS at 26 having not ridden a bike since I was 17 (DT125) I actually thought it was reasonably hard, harder than the driving test. Not sure if it really was or whether I just felt more pressure as I had a CBR600 F Sport paid for waiting for me the second I did it.
The biggest issue imo is that you learn to ride an easy to ride bike (de-tuned upright 600) within the speed limits which doesn't imitate the riding that 99% of people that pass are going to do as soon as they have the open road and a sports bike.
I am not sure how they get round this, but ultimately riding a bike quickly isn't as easy as driving a car quickly. I rode quickly and dangerously when I passed as I didn't really understand how to control a bike. Then I did CSS level 1 and rode home dead slow pondering how I hadn't thrown myself in a ditch in the past 3 months (knowing damn well I had come pretty close!)
CSS Level 1 style training should be compulsory IMO, I did it on the Stowe circuit so never went over about 65mph and wasn't allowed to use the brakes most the day so it wasn't about being a speed demon so could be done on the road as part of a test to own a 100bhp+ bike I think.
theshrew said:
I suppose a lot of people just go balls out from the off which is where the problems start.
The problem is that going fast in a straight line is the easy part (much the same as driving an articulated truck in a straight line is) the issue is when there's a corner of they fail to see a problem developing in front of them. Because they can afford sports bikes means they are less likely to throw them over in a corner in case they "bin it" so will never learn. Biking always has had an element of risk but modern bikers are averse to any risk which ironically put them in more danger.
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