New bike sales not looking very good.
Discussion
phil4 said:
I went through it all a couple of years ago.
the 4 tests cost just over £800 once bike hire, test fees etc had been applied. There was then another £1000 or so on kit (boots, helmet, gloves, jacket, trousers), which I could have spent less on, but still wasn't exactly splashing out on.
Once done, I got a second hand bike for £7500 and insurance was (and still is) around £700.
So total cost to get on the road (granted it could be done for slightly cheaper) was £2500 for tests, equipment and insurance, and another £7500 for a bike. That's a lot of money for what is a hobby.
Which leads me to the second point made, the weather is crap a lot, so I don't feel like riding. Roads are busy and people drive badly, leading to me not wanting to ride to work very often, and even when I do get out at the weekend, there's still a good deal of traffic, the roads are crap, and you always thing about getting caught.
If it weren't for the odd summer ride back out of Lambourn, with the lovely surroundings I'd have jacked it in by now.
I still see a few hardened commuter riders, and I have every pitty for them, the weather is usually grim, and the threat from other motorists high. I just wouldn't do it a a way of getting too and from work.
I commute from West Berkshire into London, by taking my bike I save masses of time, exactly as Tonker states. Sure, sometimes I am going to get cold or wet or both. But the alternatives just take so much longer. I am an hour door to door rain hail or shine on the bike.the 4 tests cost just over £800 once bike hire, test fees etc had been applied. There was then another £1000 or so on kit (boots, helmet, gloves, jacket, trousers), which I could have spent less on, but still wasn't exactly splashing out on.
Once done, I got a second hand bike for £7500 and insurance was (and still is) around £700.
So total cost to get on the road (granted it could be done for slightly cheaper) was £2500 for tests, equipment and insurance, and another £7500 for a bike. That's a lot of money for what is a hobby.
Which leads me to the second point made, the weather is crap a lot, so I don't feel like riding. Roads are busy and people drive badly, leading to me not wanting to ride to work very often, and even when I do get out at the weekend, there's still a good deal of traffic, the roads are crap, and you always thing about getting caught.
If it weren't for the odd summer ride back out of Lambourn, with the lovely surroundings I'd have jacked it in by now.
I still see a few hardened commuter riders, and I have every pitty for them, the weather is usually grim, and the threat from other motorists high. I just wouldn't do it a a way of getting too and from work.
Here’s my 2 cents as a youngish rider (under 30).
I just sold my Ducati 848 after 2 years of ownership and don’t see myself getting back on a sports bike anytime soon for the following reasons.
It’s expensive- iniatail outlay for bike and safety gear + £1,000.00 insurance, £600 service, £400 tyres every year.
It’s dangerous- Roads are too congested and full of distracted drivers. UK road surface and weather don’t bode well for riders.
You can’t get out of 3rd gear - the roads in West Sussex are so heavily policed or other road users with dash cams no point in opening her up through fear of jail terms or featuring on the front page of the mail.
It’s not cool - everyone I speak to thinks I’m an idiot for riding and have a death wish, waste of money, poser and no one in my age group rides. If I go to bury hill on a Sunday average age is 60..
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends. However I think the UK is very anti bike so it’s no surprise that no new bikes are selling - market is small, demand is low, prices are high.
I just sold my Ducati 848 after 2 years of ownership and don’t see myself getting back on a sports bike anytime soon for the following reasons.
It’s expensive- iniatail outlay for bike and safety gear + £1,000.00 insurance, £600 service, £400 tyres every year.
It’s dangerous- Roads are too congested and full of distracted drivers. UK road surface and weather don’t bode well for riders.
You can’t get out of 3rd gear - the roads in West Sussex are so heavily policed or other road users with dash cams no point in opening her up through fear of jail terms or featuring on the front page of the mail.
It’s not cool - everyone I speak to thinks I’m an idiot for riding and have a death wish, waste of money, poser and no one in my age group rides. If I go to bury hill on a Sunday average age is 60..
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends. However I think the UK is very anti bike so it’s no surprise that no new bikes are selling - market is small, demand is low, prices are high.
Popped into Grantham Honda last weekend. They had a lot of stock. Made me wonder if they're struggling to sell much right now.
Spoke to a local franchised car dealership last week too (i'm selling my van) and they said the market has gone very slow lately. He blamed brexit, christmas, uncertainty.
There does seem to have been a push to make PCP deals available on bikes, presumably because RRPs are rising and £15k-£20k on a bike isn't hugely justifiable for most people, but £200/month is? I fell for a PCP deal on the 2014 fireblades, especially with 0% APR, but sold the bike after 18 months because i got fed up with paying £150/month for a bike i hardly used. At the time i was commuting mostly by car.
But this year i've switched back onto bikes again thanks the the nightmare commute that the A14 has become. 1hr 45 to 2hrs each way in the car (80 miles) vs 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 on the bike. Plus if there's a road closure or truly serious delay, the car journey could (and has in the past) easily extend to 3+ hrs, whereas the bike might only get delayed by 10-20 mins.
Heated grips, waterproof overtrousers (army surplus goretex-style). Job done. My VFR is coming up to 43k miles and running well. Worth about 50p now, so going to run it and run it. 200 miles on a tank and 45mpg. Insurance is about £80.
No way i'd buy a new bike and inflict a winter of commuting on it.
Spoke to a local franchised car dealership last week too (i'm selling my van) and they said the market has gone very slow lately. He blamed brexit, christmas, uncertainty.
There does seem to have been a push to make PCP deals available on bikes, presumably because RRPs are rising and £15k-£20k on a bike isn't hugely justifiable for most people, but £200/month is? I fell for a PCP deal on the 2014 fireblades, especially with 0% APR, but sold the bike after 18 months because i got fed up with paying £150/month for a bike i hardly used. At the time i was commuting mostly by car.
But this year i've switched back onto bikes again thanks the the nightmare commute that the A14 has become. 1hr 45 to 2hrs each way in the car (80 miles) vs 1hr 20 to 1hr 30 on the bike. Plus if there's a road closure or truly serious delay, the car journey could (and has in the past) easily extend to 3+ hrs, whereas the bike might only get delayed by 10-20 mins.
Heated grips, waterproof overtrousers (army surplus goretex-style). Job done. My VFR is coming up to 43k miles and running well. Worth about 50p now, so going to run it and run it. 200 miles on a tank and 45mpg. Insurance is about £80.
No way i'd buy a new bike and inflict a winter of commuting on it.
What a depressing thread.
One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
Wacky Racer said:
What a depressing thread.
One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
Maybe an MT10 there with a plaque saying "What the hell were they thinking?"One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
Wacky Racer said:
What a depressing thread.
One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
There will be, and the vintage scene is actually getting bigger as well as the classic one. One thing that is booming is the classic bike scene, especially British......Prices are going through the roof, min t50/ 60's Bonnevilles, Velocettes, Gold Stars etc are approaching 15k.....Probably £300 when new.
Also classic bike shows are usually heaving with thousands of punters, but again, most of them are in the 50+ age range.
Wonder if there will be classic bike shows fifty years in the future featuring current offerings, most of which are pig ugly covered by loads of plastic bits?
Banbury (pre-31 event) is oversubscribed year on year with the cap at 600 (I believe).
Biggest issue for restoring current bikes will be trying to sort the electronics out. The 1928 Enfield we're restoring only has 2 wires
SN Muffin said:
I do definitely agree that younger people have less interest In bikes nowadays. Im 18 and have been/racing riding bikes since I was 7. I've spoken to my dad and his friends about what riding bikes on the road was like when they were younger and they said you could get a large bike straight of the bat(don't know how long ago this was). Nowadays you have to go through so many tests to get a bigger bike that people don't bother and just get a car. its a hassle trying to get my mates to do their CBT as they 'already have a car so what's the point'.
In Switzerland, if you are 25, you can buy the biggest meanest most powerful bike available without even have taken one single driving lesson. In fact, to the first official lesson, where they show you where clutch lever and brake pedal are you have to come on your own bike. :-)Your mates just do not have the free spirit.
Ho Lee Kau said:
In Switzerland, if you are 25, you can buy the biggest meanest most powerful bike available without even have taken one single driving lesson. In fact, to the first official lesson, where they show you where clutch lever and brake pedal are you have to come on your own bike. :-)
Your mates just do not have the free spirit.
Neither would I for very long if I lived in Switzerland.Your mates just do not have the free spirit.
If I made it a year without being banged up or bankrupted for some trivial motoring offence it would be a miracle.
SN Muffin said:
I do definitely agree that younger people have less interest In bikes nowadays. Im 18 and have been/racing riding bikes since I was 7. I've spoken to my dad and his friends about what riding bikes on the road was like when they were younger and they said you could get a large bike straight of the bat (don't know how long ago this was). Nowadays you have to go through so many tests to get a bigger bike that people don't bother and just get a car. its a hassle trying to get my mates to do their CBT as they 'already have a car so what's the point'.
The 250cc learner limit (at 16) was introduced in 1960. The age was raised to 17 in 1971. Once you'd passed your test, you could ride anything.Since then there has been an ever more complicated test, culminating in the utterly ludicrous situation that we have now. You have to be at least 21 to ride any motorcycle you like, having already been married, voting, or even sitting in a desert waiting to be blown up, for three years.
"They" have finally succeeded in devising a licence regime that is killing motorcycling in the UK.
Just out of interest, does anyone know whether the other EU members have adopted the European Licence Directives as eagerly as the UK did?
cmaguire said:
Ho Lee Kau said:
In Switzerland, if you are 25, you can buy the biggest meanest most powerful bike available without even have taken one single driving lesson. In fact, to the first official lesson, where they show you where clutch lever and brake pedal are you have to come on your own bike. :-)
Your mates just do not have the free spirit.
Neither would I for very long if I lived in Switzerland.Your mates just do not have the free spirit.
If I made it a year without being banged up or bankrupted for some trivial motoring offence it would be a miracle.
SDarks said:
Here’s my 2 cents as a youngish rider (under 30).
I just sold my Ducati 848 after 2 years of ownership and don’t see myself getting back on a sports bike anytime soon for the following reasons.
It’s expensive- iniatail outlay for bike and safety gear + £1,000.00 insurance, £600 service, £400 tyres every year.
It’s dangerous- Roads are too congested and full of distracted drivers. UK road surface and weather don’t bode well for riders.
You can’t get out of 3rd gear - the roads in West Sussex are so heavily policed or other road users with dash cams no point in opening her up through fear of jail terms or featuring on the front page of the mail.
It’s not cool - everyone I speak to thinks I’m an idiot for riding and have a death wish, waste of money, poser and no one in my age group rides. If I go to bury hill on a Sunday average age is 60..
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends. However I think the UK is very anti bike so it’s no surprise that no new bikes are selling - market is small, demand is low, prices are high.
Agree with everything except being cool. Why do you care what others think, you ride for yourself. I just converted a beautiful 35-year old woman to a sportsbike rider.. She got a motogp blue GSXR600 and she enjoys it, even goes to work on the bike. :-)I just sold my Ducati 848 after 2 years of ownership and don’t see myself getting back on a sports bike anytime soon for the following reasons.
It’s expensive- iniatail outlay for bike and safety gear + £1,000.00 insurance, £600 service, £400 tyres every year.
It’s dangerous- Roads are too congested and full of distracted drivers. UK road surface and weather don’t bode well for riders.
You can’t get out of 3rd gear - the roads in West Sussex are so heavily policed or other road users with dash cams no point in opening her up through fear of jail terms or featuring on the front page of the mail.
It’s not cool - everyone I speak to thinks I’m an idiot for riding and have a death wish, waste of money, poser and no one in my age group rides. If I go to bury hill on a Sunday average age is 60..
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends. However I think the UK is very anti bike so it’s no surprise that no new bikes are selling - market is small, demand is low, prices are high.
think all the comments about cost of bikes are a complete red herring. everything is more expensive these days - its called inflation. the only stuff thats not is technology or imported from China. eg. I remember paying about £3k for a 386 PC about 25 years ago.
interest rates are also at all time multi generational lows and PCP deals didn't used to exist, so the fact is you've never been able to get hold of a bike cheaper on a monthly basis as long as you arent debt averse...so I'm not convinced its cost.
Danger is one thing. Danger is not that sexy anymore. Geeks rule the world - look at Amazon, Google founders, Elon Musk etc.
Millenials are also much more into experiences than possessions apparently - thats got to be a factor as well in terms of new bikers.
finally public transport and the emergence of Uber, Zipcar etc, plus in many cities, more cycle friendly stuff, must have also made a difference?
for me the key is not just wasting less time on the commute, its the predictability of my journey, meaning I'm never late for work, never home late to miss the kids, never miss an exercise class etc because on a bike you know exactly how long it will take. I find that valuable
if I ever get pissed off after a near miss or rainy ride, I simply get the tube at rush hour and that soon reminds me how much better a bike is.
interest rates are also at all time multi generational lows and PCP deals didn't used to exist, so the fact is you've never been able to get hold of a bike cheaper on a monthly basis as long as you arent debt averse...so I'm not convinced its cost.
Danger is one thing. Danger is not that sexy anymore. Geeks rule the world - look at Amazon, Google founders, Elon Musk etc.
Millenials are also much more into experiences than possessions apparently - thats got to be a factor as well in terms of new bikers.
finally public transport and the emergence of Uber, Zipcar etc, plus in many cities, more cycle friendly stuff, must have also made a difference?
for me the key is not just wasting less time on the commute, its the predictability of my journey, meaning I'm never late for work, never home late to miss the kids, never miss an exercise class etc because on a bike you know exactly how long it will take. I find that valuable
if I ever get pissed off after a near miss or rainy ride, I simply get the tube at rush hour and that soon reminds me how much better a bike is.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Same here, Reading resident, abysmal rush hour traffic. I commute by bike all year round to keep me sane, I'd go mad if I was sat in gridlock every day. In fact with a young family it's where I do most of my riding, weekend ride-outs have become a bit thin on the ground. Fortunately my commute involves 20 miles of fast roads and twisties! SDarks said:
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends.
This right here is some b
ks. You live within coo-ee of quite literally one of the world’s great race tracks. For what you’ve blasted on posing pouches you could have had a van and a track bike and done plenty of track days. But you haven’t, presumably because your mates won’t think it’s a cool story, bro. 308mate said:
SDarks said:
I love riding and if I lived near a track I would get a track bike and be grinning most weekends.
This right here is some bks. You live within coo-ee of quite literally one of the world’s great race tracks. For what you’ve blasted on posing pouches you could have had a van and a track bike and done plenty of track days. But you haven’t, presumably because your mates won’t think it’s a cool story, bro. I've always liked bikes, had them when i was 16-17.
However, getting my full licence was financially prohibitive when i was a youth, now i'm 41 and i've been going through the stages of getting my licence, however, time has been an issue because of work.
I first booked my CBT in Feb 2016, work got in the way and i left my deposit with the school.
Theory in May 2017 - £40
CBT in July - £120
Part 1 booked in Dec, followed by part 2 a week later - £590
So £750 and nearly 2 years, though I haven't even passed yet.
These thefts are very worrying though. i have a garage and it joins the house. Any additional security measures you lot have, as i work away a lot and i'm very security conscious.
Bike specifically, i've got a fair few things in place.
recommended disclok?
any ground anchor you use?
additional garage door locks?
Currently have: Bikes behind cars, garage guardians, bars on window, CCTV, disabled electric gate from house, keys off-site (when i'm not there), alarmed, lit, snap proof locks, sash jammers, PAS handles, pat-lock and a heavy baton (when i'm home).
Thinking: window films, driveway bollards, better alarm, hidden key safe (when i'm home) and the specific bike security.
Just got a RGV and a Mito right now, but i want bigger bike next year - one that may be more desirable to the thief unfortunately.
However, getting my full licence was financially prohibitive when i was a youth, now i'm 41 and i've been going through the stages of getting my licence, however, time has been an issue because of work.
I first booked my CBT in Feb 2016, work got in the way and i left my deposit with the school.
Theory in May 2017 - £40
CBT in July - £120
Part 1 booked in Dec, followed by part 2 a week later - £590
So £750 and nearly 2 years, though I haven't even passed yet.
These thefts are very worrying though. i have a garage and it joins the house. Any additional security measures you lot have, as i work away a lot and i'm very security conscious.
Bike specifically, i've got a fair few things in place.
recommended disclok?
any ground anchor you use?
additional garage door locks?
Currently have: Bikes behind cars, garage guardians, bars on window, CCTV, disabled electric gate from house, keys off-site (when i'm not there), alarmed, lit, snap proof locks, sash jammers, PAS handles, pat-lock and a heavy baton (when i'm home).
Thinking: window films, driveway bollards, better alarm, hidden key safe (when i'm home) and the specific bike security.
Just got a RGV and a Mito right now, but i want bigger bike next year - one that may be more desirable to the thief unfortunately.
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