Why aren't we all riding Fireblades?

[Birky_41]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I've just done the Spanish mountains and absolutely love a thousand. Knowing that I can ride the torque and not constantly need to rag the crap is where I'm at now. Had 4 600s in my late teens and I'm done with them

[Fastdruid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Utterly pointless things on the road unless you can't ride and want to overcompensate for your lack of ability to go round corners by annihilating every straight...

[MrGman]

dibblecorse said:

ha ha ha, us too.... which hotel you in ?

See you at the bar no doubt ...

Me too, along with 4 mates.

my how this week is dragging!!

[moto_traxport]

dibblecorse said:

mckeann said:

Yes.

Yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes.

Can you tell I'm a little excited?

ha ha ha, us too.... which hotel you in ?

See you at the bar no doubt ...

In the bar for all 3 days if the bike doesn't start!

Best Western for most of us but 2 couples are in the other one. Where's Team Ducati then?

Weekend in Prague first, flying out tomorrow

[Fastdruid]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It was equally tongue in cheek!

But seriously, I have no desire for one. Well, apart from an original Blade. And a RC213V-S. An original Blade and an RC213V-S. And a VF1000R.

So I have no desire for one apart from a RC213V-S, a VF1000R and an original Blade. And an SP2.

fk it. I'll have a bloody litre bike then.

[dibblecorse]

moto_traxport said:

In the bar for all 3 days if the bike doesn't start!

Best Western for most of us but 2 couples are in the other one. Where's Team Ducati then?

Weekend in Prague first, flying out tomorrow

20 of us in the best western ... we are doing Prague after, fly home Friday

[hyper jay]

Popped in there last month ..
They had 2 SP,Sp go out On that day alone

[knitware]

shielsy said:

When they can be had for £79 per month

http://www.lingshondabikes.co.uk/offers/finance-of...

Because the horn is where the indicators should be, approach a turn, beep, curse, indicate.

[Fastdruid]

knitware said:

shielsy said:

When they can be had for £79 per month

http://www.lingshondabikes.co.uk/offers/finance-of...

Because the horn is where the indicators should be, approach a turn, beep, curse, indicate.

Beats aggressively cancelling your indicators at someone, which is what I inevitably do whenever I actually want the horn.

[anonymous-user]

It looks like a great deal. Quite fancy that.

[bozzy.]

trickywoo said:

In this case the deal is £6k so if it only depreciates £5k you would have paid £1k extra not to use the capital.

Not quite, PCP is a purchase so any equity at the end is yours i.e if a bike worth £6000 at 3 years old has a £5000 settlement, that equity is either transferred to a new finance deal or, if the end payment is made it stays in the bike. The customer could then choose to sell the bike privately if they wished.

I’m not saying PCP is for everyone, however, if you fancy something new and shiny and the idea of spreading the cost appeals (particularly if 0%) then it’s certainly worth exploring.

I’ve worked in the motor trade for 11 years so have first hand experience of the pros and cons of PCP.

[PTF]

PCP can be good. I got caught up in the PCP/0%/Fireblade thing when the 2014 model was being pushed. IIRC mine was £2k deposit (pretty much bang on the trade value of my bandit 1250 at the time, which was handy) and then £140 p/m for 48 months. So compared to the Lings offer higher p/m, but the bonus was that the final value/balloon was only around £3k, which meant lots of equity at the end as the value of the bike would be £6k ish.

So in that example there weren't any huge numbers, or rather not huge enough that would mean i'd simply have to hand it back at the end. The plan was to pay it off by saving an extra £60/£70 p/m over the monthly payment towards paying the balloon at the end.

It was a great way to spread the cost of buying a new bike.

As it happens i got sick of trying to keep the bike pristine, it was getting annoying on my commute, and i was riding like an idiot so i could simply get the journey over with ASAP!

I went back to Grantham Honda (the supplying dealer) looking to swap bikes, looking at a VFR1200 CrossTourer, but their p/x offer on the fireblade was hilarious. They offered £7k at about 14 months in. To make it worse the salesman was smiling at me in a really smug way, which really pissed me off. I pointed out they were retailing at £9k+ with that condition/mileage, and he just shrugged his shoulders. I was expecting £8k ish and some good will as they had been my "go to" dealer for a while. I was so angry i haven't stepped foot into that dealership since.

I paid off the PCP with a personal loan and then sold it privately for £8k within about a week.

I think the plan would've worked out fine if i'd loved the bike and kept it for the whole term or more. But because i owned the bike during the peak of its depreciation curve i took a pretty large loss (for a bike).

So my advice would be to not get caught up in the 0%/PCP thing and pick the bike you want first and if it happens to have a good finance deal then that's a bonus.

[rapide]

bozzy. said:

I’ve worked in the motor trade for 11 years so have first hand experience of the pros and cons of PCP.

I like the look of these deals. In your experience how often is there equity left above the settlement figure at the end? Surely they set it at what they think it’ll be worth?

As a general sceptic of finance I fear being told at the end, what do you know - no equity left, deposit top up required, each time you go back to the teet for more?

[Gavia]

rapide said:

I like the look of these deals. In your experience how often is there equity left above the settlement figure at the end? Surely they set it at what they think it’ll be worth?

As a general sceptic of finance I fear being told at the end, what do you know - no equity left, deposit top up required, each time you go back to the teet for more?

If they tell you that, when it’s not true, then you can still buy the bike by paying off the outstanding lump sum and sell it elsewhere, then immediately repay anything you've borrowed from the sale proceeds and pocket the excess cash. It’s unlikely that a dealer will try to stitch you too much, as they’ve a vested interest in keeping you in the PCP merry go round as they’re selling you a new bike every few years.

[PTF]

rapide said:

bozzy. said:

I’ve worked in the motor trade for 11 years so have first hand experience of the pros and cons of PCP.

I like the look of these deals. In your experience how often is there equity left above the settlement figure at the end? Surely they set it at what they think it’ll be worth?

As a general sceptic of finance I fear being told at the end, what do you know - no equity left, deposit top up required, each time you go back to the teet for more?

My understanding is they're supposed to leave enough at the end so that you can roll into a new agreement without noticing too much of a difference. It's a compromise between providing protection to the buyer in the form of a "floor" to an unexpected depreciation - if there's a global crisis and bikes become worth 50p overnight then the buyer is protected. The flip side is that the dealer needs to ensure the settlement figure isn't so high that the bike's value is close enough that the buyer hands it back and doesn't take on another agreement.

The Lings deal looks alright but that settlement figure is quite high at the end. Not sure how i'd feel about paying for it for 4 yrs, on top of a few grand up front, and then having to find/finance the remaining £8k (ish) to actually take proper ownership. It could take around 8-10 yrs to have it paid off if you financed the settlement figure at the end.

Personally i'd rather pay a slightly higher monthly to have more equity at the end, or only have a small payment left which i could hopefully scrape together if i loved the bike enough

[rapide]

PTF said:

The Lings deal looks alright but that settlement figure is quite high at the end.

Got you. So that’s essentially the ‘trick’ behind the headline grabbing £79.

To flog bikes fast you get more inventive with the deals now - and worry less about the customer in 3 years time who is less keen to sign up again as he’s got zero equity left to play with.

[Gavia]

rapide said:

Got you. So that’s essentially the ‘trick’ behind the headline grabbing £79.

To flog bikes fast you get more inventive with the deals now - and worry less about the customer in 3 years time who is less keen to sign up again as he’s got zero equity left to play with.

I know you said that you’re a sceptic, but you’ve picked the one bit of two replies that suits your scepticism and seemingly avoided the other aspects.

There is no trick. If the settlement figure is higher than the value of the bike, then you hand it back and walk away and you’re better off than the person who paid for it in full (either cash or loan). If the value of the bike is higher than the settlement figure, then you can trade it in and use the equity towards another bike either with that dealer, or you can buy it outright and trade it in with another non-Honda dealer.

If the value and outstanding balance match then you’ve broken even without having to have £n,000 of your money tied up in the bike.

There isn’t a trick and finance like this is pretty heavily regulated too, so unlikely to be any sharp practice.

The only downside is that you don’t own the bike until you make the final payment. With 0% interest deals you’re even better off than paying for it in full though.

The comment about not caring about the customer couldn’t be further form the truth. The key is to have some equity to roll into a new deal and have a repeat customer every 2 or 3years.

[PTF]

rapide said:

PTF said:

The Lings deal looks alright but that settlement figure is quite high at the end.

Got you. So that’s essentially the ‘trick’ behind the headline grabbing £79.

To flog bikes fast you get more inventive with the deals now - and worry less about the customer in 3 years time who is less keen to sign up again as he’s got zero equity left to play with.

Yeah it's a balancing act. You either up the deposit or the balloon. Whatever works to disguise the overall cost, but the monthlies are what people are going to feel going out every month so keep them as low as poss

But ideally you want the customer to keep coming back, so "tricking" them with low monthlies will bite you in the ass at the end when they're burned through their equity

[croyde]

sjtscott said:

For myself personally (besides the fact I don't need a sports bike) insurance - getting any cover ungaraged in East London LOL
Seems like a pretty good deal besides this.

This.

Thanks to the now completely uncontrolled gangs of bike jackers and moped scum, insurance is nigh on impossible for me.

Has ruined biking for me.

One idiot came tearing thru a red light on the wrong side of the road very narrowly missing my car as I crossed the junction.

I so wish that I had hit him.

Is that bad?

[rapide]

Gavia said:

I know you said that you’re a sceptic, but you’ve picked the one bit of two replies that suits your scepticism and seemingly avoided the other aspects.

There is no trick. If the settlement figure is higher than the value of the bike, then you hand it back and walk away and you’re better off than the person who paid for it in full (either cash or loan). If the value of the bike is higher than the settlement figure, then you can trade it in and use the equity towards another bike either with that dealer, or you can buy it outright and trade it in with another non-Honda dealer.

If the value and outstanding balance match then you’ve broken even without having to have £n,000 of your money tied up in the bike.

There isn’t a trick and finance like this is pretty heavily regulated too, so unlikely to be any sharp practice.

The only downside is that you don’t own the bike until you make the final payment. With 0% interest deals you’re even better off than paying for it in full though.

The comment about not caring about the customer couldn’t be further form the truth. The key is to have some equity to roll into a new deal and have a repeat customer every 2 or 3years.

Trick wasn’t the right word I agree. It’s a good deal I get that - and yours to sell to whoever at the best price you can if you buy.

My comment was purely aimed at the lowest possible monthly to get the customers in - in a competitive market it must be tempting for dealer X to play with the settlement figures just a bit and therefore leave a little less equity in the deal that dealer Y to get a low monthly to shout loud about? It’s not making the deal any worse in terms of overall cost. However, paying a little more a month and getting more equity at the end is probably better for most?

I am sceptical but not anti dealers, just trying to get my head round it